Islam and Peace

[bmacwilliam]

It's a matter of context; in those desert lands of that time, justice was savage and morality was raw. After already 1000-plus years into the Christian era, the european continent was then a bog of brutality.

I don't see any religion as holding a monopoly on "goodness and mercy".

Tony

Irrelevant. The thread is 'Islam and Peace'. Islam is not that bad because Christianity was bad? That's the argument?

All religions have had blood spilled in their name. Islam is the worst of the lot, and the one that poses the most serious danger today - by far.

Bob

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Bob,

You actually missed the point.

I was not justifying anything. I was pointing out your inconsistency of standard in spewing spite at one person for a particular habit that many practiced as if only he did it.

Why not spew spite at all of them?

You seem to like spite, so there are plenty enough people to scapegoat to keep you happy for a long time.

Are Jews scumbags like you claim Mohammad was? Was Joseph a scumbag?

How about all those holy people in Christianity who killed innocents, say Paul (a tax-collector at that)? Scumbags, too?

And don't forget slaves. Maybe the entire human race up until recent times were nothing but scumbags to you? They all practiced slavery.

Heh.

Hate on. Knock yourself out...

Michael

[Selene]

Bob:

Polygyny and polyandry families and relationships have successfully existed throughout time in our history.

"Polyandry in human relationships occurs or has occurred in Tibet, the Canadian Arctic, Zanskar, Nepal, Bhutan, Ladakh, the Nymba, and Sri Lanka, and is known to have been present in some pre-contact Polynesian societies, though probably only among higher caste women. It is also encountered in some regions of Mongolia, among the Mosuo people in China, and in some Sub-Saharan African and American indigenous communities. In other societies, there are people who live in de facto polyandrous arrangements that are not recognized by the law

Sociologist Hilmi Ziya Ülken made the following statements about the prevalence of polygamy and monogamy;

Male dominance since the evolution of primitive societies and his first class distinction being his gender distinction have meant that the single husband framework has proved its sovereignty. However in some places, distinctive economic circumstances and in other places, certain historical periods, have all brought about a framework of marrying many husbands. This is apparent in the Fratri region of Australia."

In neither case, does the additional "husband" or "wife" have to be "treated like crap."

Freedom takes many forms and as long as it is not forced, it is basically none of our business.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyandry

Adam

Edited November 25, 2010 by Selene

[bmacwilliam]

Couple of "peaceful" facts for Michael:

"the vicious murder of Asma bint Marwan, the Jewish mother of five, at the Prophet's command for writing poetry he found threatening."

" the rape of the Jewess Sofiyah bint Huyayy the night after Muhammad tortured and beheaded her husband for refusing to reveal the location of his treasure. Sofiyah was 17 and Muhammad was 62. "

Bob

[bmacwilliam]

Bob:

Polygyny and polyandry families and relationships have successfully existed throughout time in our history.

"Polyandry in human relationships occurs or has occurred in Tibet, the Canadian Arctic, Zanskar, Nepal, Bhutan, Ladakh, the Nymba, and Sri Lanka, and is known to have been present in some pre-contact Polynesian societies, though probably only among higher caste women. It is also encountered in some regions of Mongolia, among the Mosuo people in China, and in some Sub-Saharan African and American indigenous communities. In other societies, there are people who live in de facto polyandrous arrangements that are not recognized by the law

Sociologist Hilmi Ziya Ülken made the following statements about the prevalence of polygamy and monogamy;

Male dominance since the evolution of primitive societies and his first class distinction being his gender distinction have meant that the single husband framework has proved its sovereignty. However in some places, distinctive economic circumstances and in other places, certain historical periods, have all brought about a framework of marrying many husbands. This is apparent in the Fratri region of Australia."

In neither case, does the additional "husband" or "wife" have to be "treated like crap."

Freedom takes many forms and as long as it is not forced, it is basically none of our business.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyandry

Adam

"In neither case, does the additional "husband" or "wife" have to be "treated like crap."

Try it. Ask your wife how she feels when the second wife arrives.

Bob

[anthony]

It's a matter of context; in those desert lands of that time, justice was savage and morality was raw. After already 1000-plus years into the Christian era, the european continent was then a bog of brutality.

I don't see any religion as holding a monopoly on "goodness and mercy".

Tony

Irrelevant. The thread is 'Islam and Peace'. Islam is not that bad because Christianity was bad? That's the argument?

All religions have had blood spilled in their name. Islam is the worst of the lot, and the one that poses the most serious danger today - by far.

Bob

A quick reply?

The other religions had a long head-start, and Islam is catching up. Despite my basic affection for Judaism, and concern for its survival, I hate to think what may have happened if Jews had always had a large numerical advantage in the world. How peaceful would they have been? Power and might corrupt.

My overview is that Islam will be tamed in years to come - mainly by self-discipline, and partly by force, when the genuine militant fundamentalists meet their come-uppance at the hands of western opposition.

But, the very worst we can do in the meantime, is to over react - to curtail our own individual liberty in the name of fear and security. Is it too late? that's the question.

Tony

[bmacwilliam]

Bob,

You actually missed the point.

I was not justifying anything. I was pointing out your inconsistency of standard in spewing spite at one person for a particular habit that many practiced as if only he did it.

Why not spew spite at all of them?

You seem to like spite, so there are plenty enough people to scapegoat to keep you happy for a long time.

Are Jews scumbags like you claim Mohammad was? Was Joseph a scumbag?

How about all those holy people in Christianity who killed innocents, say Paul (a tax-collector at that)? Scumbags, too?

And don't forget slaves. Maybe the entire human race up until recent times were nothing but scumbags to you? They all practiced slavery.

Heh.

Hate on. Knock yourself out...

Michael

Um... the point was, according to the thread title was "Islam and Peace", anyway...

"How about all those holy people in Christianity who killed innocents, say Paul (a tax-collector at that)? Scumbags, too?"

Like, duh... Of course. Sheesh, that's the point Micheal. A scumbag is a scumbag. If you base a religion on a scumbag (or in this case a Warlord Mega-Scumbag) a religion of peace you will not have. Get it? Try to say with me here...

Bob

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Bob,

I am keeping up, believe me.

You preach hate and bullying as the proper way to live on earth.

And I ain't having any of it.

That's the entire essence of our exchanges. The rest is nothing but details fleshing that out.

(I do sense a good guy deep down inside you trying to get out, though. You keep crapping on him, but I sense he's there.)

Michael

[Selene]

Bob:

Polygyny and polyandry families and relationships have successfully existed throughout time in our history.

"Polyandry in human relationships occurs or has occurred in Tibet, the Canadian Arctic, Zanskar, Nepal, Bhutan, Ladakh, the Nymba, and Sri Lanka, and is known to have been present in some pre-contact Polynesian societies, though probably only among higher caste women. It is also encountered in some regions of Mongolia, among the Mosuo people in China, and in some Sub-Saharan African and American indigenous communities. In other societies, there are people who live in de facto polyandrous arrangements that are not recognized by the law

Sociologist Hilmi Ziya Ülken made the following statements about the prevalence of polygamy and monogamy;

Male dominance since the evolution of primitive societies and his first class distinction being his gender distinction have meant that the single husband framework has proved its sovereignty. However in some places, distinctive economic circumstances and in other places, certain historical periods, have all brought about a framework of marrying many husbands. This is apparent in the Fratri region of Australia."

In neither case, does the additional "husband" or "wife" have to be "treated like crap."

Freedom takes many forms and as long as it is not forced, it is basically none of our business.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyandry

Adam

"In neither case, does the additional "husband" or "wife" have to be "treated like crap."

Try it. Ask your wife how she feels when the second wife arrives.

Bob

Bob:

Do you selectively read on a regular basis?

Additionally, the point is that it has worked successfully both with additional males and additional females.

Avoiding these facts just diminishes your argument.

Adam

[bmacwilliam]

It's a matter of context; in those desert lands of that time, justice was savage and morality was raw. After already 1000-plus years into the Christian era, the european continent was then a bog of brutality.

I don't see any religion as holding a monopoly on "goodness and mercy".

Tony

Irrelevant. The thread is 'Islam and Peace'. Islam is not that bad because Christianity was bad? That's the argument?

All religions have had blood spilled in their name. Islam is the worst of the lot, and the one that poses the most serious danger today - by far.

Bob

A quick reply?

The other religions had a long head-start, and Islam is catching up. Despite my basic affection for Judaism, and concern for its survival, I hate to think what may have happened if Jews had always had a large numerical advantage in the world. How peaceful would they have been? Power and might corrupt.

My overview is that Islam will be tamed in years to come - mainly by self-discipline, and partly by force, when the genuine militant fundamentalists meet their come-uppance at the hands of western opposition.

But, the very worst we can do in the meantime, is to over react - to curtail our own individual liberty in the name of fear and security. Is it too late? that's the question.

Tony

I do not disagree in any substantial way with this. However, we do not curtail our liberty, in fact quite the opposite, when we take a vocal position that Islam is violent, mysogynistic, dangerous nonsense.

Bob

[bmacwilliam]

Bob:

Polygyny and polyandry families and relationships have successfully existed throughout time in our history.

"Polyandry in human relationships occurs or has occurred in Tibet, the Canadian Arctic, Zanskar, Nepal, Bhutan, Ladakh, the Nymba, and Sri Lanka, and is known to have been present in some pre-contact Polynesian societies, though probably only among higher caste women. It is also encountered in some regions of Mongolia, among the Mosuo people in China, and in some Sub-Saharan African and American indigenous communities. In other societies, there are people who live in de facto polyandrous arrangements that are not recognized by the law

Sociologist Hilmi Ziya Ülken made the following statements about the prevalence of polygamy and monogamy;

Male dominance since the evolution of primitive societies and his first class distinction being his gender distinction have meant that the single husband framework has proved its sovereignty. However in some places, distinctive economic circumstances and in other places, certain historical periods, have all brought about a framework of marrying many husbands. This is apparent in the Fratri region of Australia."

In neither case, does the additional "husband" or "wife" have to be "treated like crap."

Freedom takes many forms and as long as it is not forced, it is basically none of our business.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyandry

Adam

"In neither case, does the additional "husband" or "wife" have to be "treated like crap."

Try it. Ask your wife how she feels when the second wife arrives.

Bob

Bob:

Do you selectively read on a regular basis?

Additionally, the point is that it has worked successfully both with additional males and additional females.

Avoiding these facts just diminishes your argument.

Adam

Ah...no.

Because it has actually happened in a vanishingly small proportion of humans diminishes YOUR argument.

"the single husband framework has proved its sovereignty." Umm... where did that come from??? That's right - YOUR argument! But...that's my argument. I guess we're done here then.

Nevertheless, find a woman that you believe loves you (maybe not realistic, but at least hypothetically) and see if YOU feel like you're being treated like crap when a new husband comes home?

Happy now?

Bob

Edited November 25, 2010 by Bob_Mac

[Brant Gaede]

Is this thread the turkey you guys are having for Thanksgiving?

--Brant

[bmacwilliam]

Is this thread the turkey you guys are having for Thanksgiving?

--Brant

Sorry,

Not American. Thanksgiving happened a month and a half ago.

Bob

[bmacwilliam]

Bob,

I am keeping up, believe me.

You preach hate and bullying as the proper way to live on earth.

And I ain't having any of it.

That's the entire essence of our exchanges. The rest is nothing but details fleshing that out.

(I do sense a good guy deep down inside you trying to get out, though. You keep crapping on him, but I sense he's there.)

Michael

Micheal,

"You preach hate and bullying as the proper way to live on earth.

And I ain't having any of it."

That's where you're so very wrong. I was the guy who pounded the bully when I became the target. Try to understand the difference.

You still haven't addressed the relevant point - "was the Prophet a scumbag and what that means" You came close when you said (more or less) "yeah, but there were some bad Christians too." I'll have to take that as agreement.

I do sense there's some rational thinking deep down inside you trying to get out... Wait... No, sorry, I don't.

Bob

[BaalChatzaf]

Bob,

I am keeping up, believe me.

You preach hate and bullying as the proper way to live on earth.

And I ain't having any of it.

That's the entire essence of our exchanges. The rest is nothing but details fleshing that out.

(I do sense a good guy deep down inside you trying to get out, though. You keep crapping on him, but I sense he's there.)

Michael

Micheal,

"You preach hate and bullying as the proper way to live on earth.

And I ain't having any of it."

That's where you're so very wrong. I was the guy who pounded the bully when I became the target. Try to understand the difference.

You still haven't addressed the relevant point - "was the Prophet a scumbag and what that means" You came close when you said (more or less) "yeah, but there were some bad Christians too." I'll have to take that as agreement.

I do sense there's some rational thinking deep down inside you trying to get out... Wait... No, sorry, I don't.

Bob

I am waiting to hear what "good hearted" folks will say when the Jihadis blow up a dirty radioactive bomb in downtown Manhattan (where the Jews are). I can hear it now: .... but not all the Muslims are to blame.....

Ba'a Chatzaf

Edited November 25, 2010 by BaalChatzaf

[Mike11]

To the pure white goyim on this forum. Marx, Trotsky, Zinoviev, Rosenburg and others had two things in common - Being evil hell bent commies and jews. My people were against your religion, your rights and your soil.

Thank you for not worrying the way the Germans did and Baal would have you.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I'll have to take that as agreement.

I do sense there's some rational thinking deep down inside you trying to get out... Wait... No, sorry, I don't.

Bob,

I'm taking this where it belongs.

Thread closed.

Garbage Pile.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

It occurred to me that something might not be clear.

I am not shutting down debate critical of Islam (or Christianity or Judaism or any other religion). If this can be done without scapegoating, bigotry, mind-games, name-calling, etc., I have no problem with it.

I just made a value judgment.on hatred and crap. When it gets too excessive, I don't want it near me. What a time-waster!

Some readers will probably read into this more than is here, but things like privileged treatment of one religion over others is most definitely not my intent. I would act the same--and will if need be--if Judaism or Christianity or Mormonism or whatever were the case right now.

Michael