Katyn

[Guyau]

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Katyn

Andrzej Wajda, Director

This film lays open the filthy lie by the Soviet State covering the filthy truth of its mass murder of Polish intelligentsia. The truth lives, the love and loss breathe, the defiant are remembered, the human is restored.

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Edited March 17, 2010 by Stephen Boydstun

[BaalChatzaf]

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Katyn

Andrzej Wajda, Director

This film lays open the filthy lie by the Soviet State covering the filthy truth of its mass murder of Polish intelligentsia. The truth lives, the love and loss breathe, the defiant are remembered, the human is restored.

.

Stalin's Soviet Union was well matched against Hitler's Nazi Germany. Two monster regimes pulling each others intestines out.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Robert Campbell]

And the Poles were caught in between.

So when Hitler wasn't killing them in droves, Stalin was—and back and forth it went.

Robert Campbell

[DavidMcK]

Robert, notice that each side was also delighted to discover an atrocity, and quickly used it for propaganda purposes: Makes the phrase "Kettle calling the pot black" the understatement of the century (20th).

[Chris Grieb]

Robert, notice that each side was also delighted to discover an atrocity, and quickly used it for propaganda purposes: Makes the phrase "Kettle calling the pot black" the understatement of the century (20th).

David; The one problem is that the Soviet atrocities are little discussed in comparison with the Holocaust. The Poles were totally aware of atrocities since they were carried out on them.

[Guyau]

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70 years

[dan2100]

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70 years

Thanks for posting that link.

[Chris Grieb]

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70 years

Thanks for posting that link.

This might just be a good sign.

[Chris Grieb]

The crash with the Polish President and a host of other Polish government officials which was near the site of Katyn massacre is very distributing news. I hope the truth can come out but with Putin in charge I have my doubts.

[Guyau]

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Archives of Massacre Released

[BaalChatzaf]

The crash with the Polish President and a host of other Polish government officials which was near the site of Katyn massacre is very distributing news. I hope the truth can come out but with Putin in charge I have my doubts.

Why look for conspiracies. One over-age Tupelov jet + fogged in airport at Smolensk + pilot of dubious competence = one wreck.

On the basis of Ockham's razor we should accept the crash at face value.

Bob Kolker

[BaalChatzaf]

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70 years

Compared to what the Nazis did, the Katyn Forest Massacre was a minor event.

The murder of inconvenient people is one of the most common human doings.

Disproportion is an enemy of clear thinking.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Edited April 28, 2010 by BaalChatzaf

[dan2100]

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70 years

Compared to what the Nazis did, the Katyn Forest Massacre was a minor event.

The murder of inconvenient people is one of the most common human doings.

Disproportion is an enemy of clear thinking.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Okay, then would you accept that terrorism today is really a minor issue -- with the far bigger problem being statism? Why? Because statism kills far more people. As, for instance, James Bovard pointed out:

"A core fallacy at the heart of the war on terrorism is that terrorism is worse than almost anything else imaginable. Unfortunately, governments around the world have committed far worse abuses than Al Qaeda or any other terrorist cabal. By treating terrorism as the supreme evil, and insisting that governments can never be guilty of terrorism, the Bush administration makes the crimes of government morally negligible. From 1980 to 2000, international terrorists killed 7,745 people, according to the U.S. State Department. Yet, in the same decades, governments killed more than 10 million people in ethnic cleansing campaigns, mass executions, politically caused famines, wars, and other slaughters. During the 1990s, Americans were at far greater risk of being gunned down by local, state, and federal law enforcement agents than of being killed by international terrorists." -- http://www.strike-the-root.com/4/bovard/bovard2.html

So, when will you start calling for an end to the War on Terror and a beginning to a War on Statism?

[BaalChatzaf]

Okay, then would you accept that terrorism today is really a minor issue -- with the far bigger problem being statism? Why? Because statism kills far more people. As, for instance, James Bovard pointed out:

As immediate military threats go, Al Queda is minor league, say, compared to one of the Islamfascist states planting a nuclear weapon in one of our cities (a lot easier to do, than is commonly thought). I agree. The long term threat of Islam fascism is to push our government into becoming even more repressive than it is. The short term threat is not all that great.

In terms of body count we have more than gotten even.

Proportion, proportion.....

Ba'al Chatzaf

Edited April 28, 2010 by BaalChatzaf

[dan2100]

Okay, then would you accept that terrorism today is really a minor issue -- with the far bigger problem being statism? Why? Because statism kills far more people. As, for instance, James Bovard pointed out:

As immediate military threats go, Al Queda is minor league, say, compared to one of the Islamfascist states planting a nuclear weapon in one of our cities (a lot easier to do, than is commonly thought). I agree.

That wasn't in the context of what I quote from Bovard. His point and mine are that governments do more harm, including more killing, than terrorists do. I would say this goes for just about all governments, but most especially for the particular semi-fascist government you support.

The long term threat of Islam fascism is to push our government into becoming even more repressive than it is. The short term threat is not all that great.

I think problem is far different. I think the long-term and short-term threat are not any external threats at all. External threats are either minor or imaginary. They're used as pretexts to expand government power. (This is not to say it's all a big conspiracy. I believe many people honestly believe more government is better or that government is the solution to this or that crisis. When something happens that these people can latch on to, they push for their preferred policies, probably sincerely believing they're doing the right thing. They are also people who believe that in a crisis government should expand but who are too ignorant or stupid to understand that governments don't tend to shrink back to pre-crisis levels once the crisis is over.)

In terms of body count we have more than gotten even.

Proportion, proportion.....

Ba'al Chatzaf

I don't think so. What's happened is many innocent people were killed. You seem to believe that innocent people being killed in Mesopotamia or Central Asia somehow is "getting even" for innocent people killed in America. This is sort of like viewing if some innocent person is murdered in Detroit by a gang from somewhere in Southern California, the solution is to go out and kill three innocent people in Irvine. Strange logic you have there. Never come within five meters of me.

[BaalChatzaf]

I don't think so. What's happened is many innocent people were killed. You seem to believe that innocent people being killed in Mesopotamia or Central Asia somehow is "getting even" for innocent people killed in America. This is sort of like viewing if some innocent person is murdered in Detroit by a gang from somewhere in Southern California, the solution is to go out and kill three innocent people in Irvine. Strange logic you have there. Never come within five meters of me.

So true. I consider myself blessed. You have not got the killer spirit. I do. If I had been healthier I would have joined the active military and gotten me some scalps. So I settled for helping to produce cruise missiles which have killed tens of thousands. You are a lovely man and I don't want you in my army. You are too good to fight properly.

In a war there are NO innocent people. Only enemy to aim at and collaterals to feel sorry about sometime in the distant future.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Brant Gaede]

I don't think so. What's happened is many innocent people were killed. You seem to believe that innocent people being killed in Mesopotamia or Central Asia somehow is "getting even" for innocent people killed in America. This is sort of like viewing if some innocent person is murdered in Detroit by a gang from somewhere in Southern California, the solution is to go out and kill three innocent people in Irvine. Strange logic you have there. Never come within five meters of me.

So true. I consider myself blessed. You have not got the killer spirit. I do. If I had been healthier I would have joined the active military and gotten me some scalps. So I settled for helping to produce cruise missiles which have killed tens of thousands. You are a lovely man and I don't want you in my army. You are too good to fight properly.

In a war there are NO innocent people. Only enemy to aim at and collaterals to feel sorry about sometime in the distant future.

Ba'al Chatzaf

I knew two men in Vietnam who enjoyed killing. One was a psychopath and one needed to grow up.

--Brant

[BaalChatzaf]

I knew two men in Vietnam who enjoyed killing. One was a psychopath and one needed to grow up.

--Brant

From 9/12/2001 to this date I am the psychopath. Before that I did what I thought was necessary for survival. Now I want blood. 9/11/2001 was Pearl Harbor-2. Like many Americans after Pearl Harbor-1, revenge is an issue with me. You are probably too young to understand the hatred that Americans had toward the Japanese after Pearl Harbor-1. I grew up with it and acquired it from my relatives who fought in the Pacific War.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Edited May 1, 2010 by BaalChatzaf

[9thdoctor]

I settled for helping to produce cruise missiles which have killed tens of thousands. You are a lovely man and I don't want you in my army. You are too good to fight properly.

In a war there are NO innocent people.

Well, you're not alone.

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Do you feel we should we target Madrasahs for bombing too?

[Brant Gaede]

I knew two men in Vietnam who enjoyed killing. One was a psychopath and one needed to grow up.

--Brant

From 9/12/2001 to this date I am the psychopath. Before that I did what I thought was necessary for survival. Now I want blood. 9/11/2001 was Pearl Harbor-2. Like many Americans after Pearl Harbor-1, revenge is an issue with me. You are probably too young to understand the hatred that Americans had toward the Japanese after Pearl Harbor-1. I grew up with it and acquired it from my relatives who fought in the Pacific War.

Ba'al Chatzaf

I don't believe you are any such thing. I don't believe a psychopath thinks he is a psychopath, but could be wrong.

--Brant

not too young

[Brant Gaede]

I settled for helping to produce cruise missiles which have killed tens of thousands. You are a lovely man and I don't want you in my army. You are too good to fight properly.

In a war there are NO innocent people.

Well, you're not alone.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="

name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="

type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Do you feel we should we target Madrasahs for bombing too?

Don't drink a gallon of coffee before going on TV.

--Brant

[dan2100]

I knew two men in Vietnam who enjoyed killing. One was a psychopath and one needed to grow up.

--Brant

From 9/12/2001 to this date I am the psychopath. Before that I did what I thought was necessary for survival. Now I want blood. 9/11/2001 was Pearl Harbor-2. Like many Americans after Pearl Harbor-1, revenge is an issue with me. You are probably too young to understand the hatred that Americans had toward the Japanese after Pearl Harbor-1. I grew up with it and acquired it from my relatives who fought in the Pacific War.

Ba'al Chatzaf

I don't believe you are any such thing. I don't believe a psychopath thinks he is a psychopath, but could be wrong.

--Brant

not too young

I doubt the test for being a psychopath is whether one believes (or claims?) one is one.

Also, I wonder if Ba'al Chatzaf isn't mostly bluffing here. His dispatches are not, to my knowledge, coming from a war zone. I think he's probably much like Tim Starr here.

[BaalChatzaf]

I knew two men in Vietnam who enjoyed killing. One was a psychopath and one needed to grow up.

--Brant

From 9/12/2001 to this date I am the psychopath. Before that I did what I thought was necessary for survival. Now I want blood. 9/11/2001 was Pearl Harbor-2. Like many Americans after Pearl Harbor-1, revenge is an issue with me. You are probably too young to understand the hatred that Americans had toward the Japanese after Pearl Harbor-1. I grew up with it and acquired it from my relatives who fought in the Pacific War.

Ba'al Chatzaf

I don't believe you are any such thing. I don't believe a psychopath thinks he is a psychopath, but could be wrong.

--Brant

not too young

I doubt the test for being a psychopath is whether one believes (or claims?) one is one.

Also, I wonder if Ba'al Chatzaf isn't mostly bluffing here. His dispatches are not, to my knowledge, coming from a war zone. I think he's probably much like Tim Starr here.

My war days are behind me. When I was younger, I was unable to be active warrior because of health issues so I became a tool-smith for the real warriors. I helped (among other things) make H-bombs and guidance systems for cruise missiles. I have (indirectly) much blood on my hands and I am proud of every drop. One of my few regrets is that I was unable to drop the bombs I helped to make.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[dan2100]

From 9/12/2001 to this date I am the psychopath. Before that I did what I thought was necessary for survival. Now I want blood. 9/11/2001 was Pearl Harbor-2. Like many Americans after Pearl Harbor-1, revenge is an issue with me. You are probably too young to understand the hatred that Americans had toward the Japanese after Pearl Harbor-1. I grew up with it and acquired it from my relatives who fought in the Pacific War.

Ba'al Chatzaf

I don't believe you are any such thing. I don't believe a psychopath thinks he is a psychopath, but could be wrong.

--Brant

not too young

I doubt the test for being a psychopath is whether one believes (or claims?) one is one.

Also, I wonder if Ba'al Chatzaf isn't mostly bluffing here. His dispatches are not, to my knowledge, coming from a war zone. I think he's probably much like Tim Starr here.

My war days are behind me. When I was younger, I was unable to be active warrior because of health issues

Wow! That was the excuse Tim Starr gave for not joining the military: health issues.

so I became a tool-smith for the real warriors. I helped (among other things) make H-bombs and guidance systems for cruise missiles. I have (indirectly) much blood on my hands and I am proud of every drop. One of my few regrets is that I was unable to drop the bombs I helped to make.

Ba'al Chatzaf

What particular individuals are you proud of helping to kill?

[BaalChatzaf]

What particular individuals are you proud of helping to kill?

My enemies. And god damn the collateral damage.

Ba'al Chatzaf