Top-down organization

[RightJungle]

Michael,

What general semanticist is saying is that when we lift our eyes to the sky and gaze at light that has travelled for thousands of light years to land on our retinas, we are seeing the start of the light's journey those many thousands of light years ago. The landing on our retinas happens now. The light however is from great distances and expanses of time in the past.

So, maybe we can see the light from the big bang. I personally wouldn't know it when I saw it, but it's a groovey Saganish idea, don't you think?

Mary Lee

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Mary,

I know that's what GS meant. But he knew what I meant. GS was just being argumentative, so I was being argumentative right back.

The idea of seeing particles that originated in the big bang (if it did happen) and traveled all of space and time is enticing. That is, until you start looking into the different scientific theories of space and time.

Then it gets really weird...

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

I said in essence we are looking back in time, not literally. This is not an illusion. Even when you look at the sun you are seeing what happened around 8 minutes ago. I don't know what you would call this but it is somewhat like looking back in time.

You can see the Andromeda galaxy (a close neighbor) with the naked eye as it was 2.5 million years ago. With a telescope we can see individual stars in that galaxy. I'd call that looking back in time. With modern space observatories we can see the universe as it was some 13 billion years ago, about only 300000 years after the big bang. At that time the universe became transparent to radiation. When we'll succeed in observing gravitational waves we could in principle even look back to the beginning of the big bang.

Thank you for your good sense.

--Brant

[Peter]

Mike M. wrote:

For me, the most profound moment in Carl Sagan's Contact was when Ellie asks the extraterrestrial guide about the wormhole transport and he says, "We didn't build it. We found it here when we arrived." The Universe did not have a Creator, but given the Universe, whatever else exists besides us must be wonderful.

end quote

My favorite movie is Contact, and I named my cat, Sparks, after her Dad's pet name for Ellie. After seeing Jodie in Contact I thought she would make a great Dagny Taggert.

Does anyone else think we are in the middle of an inter-galactic conversation, and we don't even know it?

Semper cogitans fidele,

Peter Taylor