Invictus

[Chris Grieb]

This is a true story about South Africa's Rugby team after the end of apartheid. It stars Morgan Freeman and Matt Damon. Morgan Freeman plays Nelson Mandela while Damon plays the rugby teams captain. This looks like a very good movie that I plan to see.

I must add that the fall of the apartheid regime was a very good thing like the fall of the Berlin Wall.

[anonrobt]

I must add that the fall of the apartheid regime was a very good thing like the fall of the Berlin Wall.

............................

Considering what has replaced it - ye sure?

[anthony]

I must add that the fall of the apartheid regime was a very good thing like the fall of the Berlin Wall.

............................

Considering what has replaced it - ye sure?

Ah well; on the bright side, we went from a white minority-ruled racist, Socialist State,to a black majority-ruled, racist, Socialist State.

"La plus ca change..."

Such is 'democracy' without individual rights.

( And we are permitted to play Rugby internationally, again. )

[Chris Grieb]

I must add that the fall of the apartheid regime was a very good thing like the fall of the Berlin Wall.

............................

Considering what has replaced it - ye sure?

Ah well; on the bright side, we went from a white minority-ruled racist, Socialist State,to a black majority-ruled, racist, Socialist State.

"La plus ca change..."

Such is 'democracy' without individual rights.

( And we are permitted to play Rugby internationally, again. )

I am not claiming South Africa is a utopia. No place is. I for one I glad the Afrikaans government is gone. Could you provide some evidence that there are no individual rights in South Africa.

[anthony]

Chris, I'm so very glad you asked this (always wondered - is irony un-O'ist?), but I will take a stab at replying.

Simply, S.Africa has masses of 'rights,' for the masses. I don't recall the precise AR quote, but the gist is "having rights for everything, is having rights to nothing."

So true.

SA has a constitution; it was cobbled together 15-20 years ago by a faceless bunch of human rights lawyers. It apparently runs to 1000's of pages, and covers everything under the sun : race-colour-creed (of course), right to education, to clean water, to healthcare, freedom of speech, to a job, to a minimum wage, to a house; rights for the disabled, the elderly, children, and women. These are just the tip of the iceberg.

It seems they used every liberal-socialist country in the world as a model. A simple Bill of Rights, and 'Life, Liberty,and the Pursuit of Happiness', somehow missed the cut. (Scarily, there is provision in this constitution for a ruling party to modify that selfsame constitution, if they gain a two-thirds majority.)

As Rand would ask "Who pays?" for all those rights. It has resulted in a juggling act by the ANC g-ment, trying to supply houses to the millions of poor,; a semi-bankrupt public health system; an inefficient, low standard of public schools and universities; constant strikes led by our powerful trade unions - all leading from a 'culture' of entitlement, towards a mood of disatisfaction and anger.

The producers, business and industry, are tolerated only as far as they are the ones supporting the tax base to pay for all this ; and so far as they provide the jobs. They are hampered at every turn, by a mass of regulation, the worst imo, being the Affirmative Action law (BEE, Black Economic Empowerment), that forces every company to have a number of 'previously disadvantaged' ie black people, on their directors' boards. That disallows a company from contracting out to any other company that doesn't have BEE status, and that forces all businesses to hire staff on a 'racial quota' basis.

BTW,one result has been the creation of a new black elite, of the super wealthy, who were once Marxist union leaders, and leaders in the 'struggle' (against the previous regime). It has been fascinating for me to see these very same neo Capitalists today as billionaires, when I at one time 20 years ago, met and photographed them in red t-shirts, emblazoned with the hammer and sickle.

(Turning swords into stocks and shares, perhaps? lol)

Turning to property rights. Unforgettable is that one quote of AR, that "there can be no rights without property rights." In a climate of desperately high crime - and brutal crime at that - and a g-ment that keeps finding new ways to tax one, the prevailing attitude, rather than a right, is you get to keep what you have --- for now. Until one,or the other, takes it away from you.

Similar to, but to a lesser degree than Zimbabwe for instance, there is a program in place to begin buying farms from their owners, with increasing threats that 'taking' may replace the purchasing, one day. Also, a noisy upstart, Julius Malema the leader of the ANC Youth League who is being touted as a future SA President,only last week made noises about nationalising the platinum mining industry. "Redistrubution" has been the buzz-word for years.

Chris, there is too much to cover about this unhappy country, and I have had to apply a broad brush. I am in total agreement on good riddance to the Afrikaaner, apartheid, rule, but make no bones about it, my individual rights as minority white man, are just as fragile and uncertain as the black man had before in this racist state.

In the end, 'human rights' won't protect either of us.

Tony

[Chris Grieb]

Chris, I'm so very glad you asked this (always wondered - is irony un-O'ist?), but I will take a stab at replying.

Simply, S.Africa has masses of 'rights,' for the masses. I don't recall the precise AR quote, but the gist is "having rights for everything, is having rights to nothing."

So true.

SA has a constitution; it was cobbled together 15-20 years ago by a faceless bunch of human rights lawyers. It apparently runs to 1000's of pages, and covers everything under the sun : race-colour-creed (of course), right to education, to clean water, to healthcare, freedom of speech, to a job, to a minimum wage, to a house; rights for the disabled, the elderly, children, and women. These are just the tip of the iceberg.

It seems they used every liberal-socialist country in the world as a model. A simple Bill of Rights, and 'Life, Liberty,and the Pursuit of Happiness', somehow missed the cut. (Scarily, there is provision in this constitution for a ruling party to modify that selfsame constitution, if they gain a two-thirds majority.)

As Rand would ask "Who pays?" for all those rights. It has resulted in a juggling act by the ANC g-ment, trying to supply houses to the millions of poor,; a semi-bankrupt public health system; an inefficient, low standard of public schools and universities; constant strikes led by our powerful trade unions - all leading from a 'culture' of entitlement, towards a mood of disatisfaction and anger.

The producers, business and industry, are tolerated only as far as they are the ones supporting the tax base to pay for all this ; and so far as they provide the jobs. They are hampered at every turn, by a mass of regulation, the worst imo, being the Affirmative Action law (BEE, Black Economic Empowerment), that forces every company to have a number of 'previously disadvantaged' ie black people, on their directors' boards. That disallows a company from contracting out to any other company that doesn't have BEE status, and that forces all businesses to hire staff on a 'racial quota' basis.

BTW,one result has been the creation of a new black elite, of the super wealthy, who were once Marxist union leaders, and leaders in the 'struggle' (against the previous regime). It has been fascinating for me to see these very same neo Capitalists today as billionaires, when I at one time 20 years ago, met and photographed them in red t-shirts, emblazoned with the hammer and sickle.

(Turning swords into stocks and shares, perhaps? lol)

Turning to property rights. Unforgettable is that one quote of AR, that "there can be no rights without property rights." In a climate of desperately high crime - and brutal crime at that - and a g-ment that keeps finding new ways to tax one, the prevailing attitude, rather than a right, is you get to keep what you have --- for now. Until one,or the other, takes it away from you.

Similar to, but to a lesser degree than Zimbabwe for instance, there is a program in place to begin buying farms from their owners, with increasing threats that 'taking' may replace the purchasing, one day. Also, a noisy upstart, Julius Malema the leader of the ANC Youth League who is being touted as a future SA President,only last week made noises about nationalizing the platinum mining industry. "Redistrubution" has been the buzz-word for years.

Chris, there is too much to cover about this unhappy country, and I have had to apply a broad brush. I am in total agreement on good riddance to the Afrikaaner, apartheid, rule, but make no bones about it, my individual rights as minority white man, are just as fragile and uncertain as the black man had before in this racist state.

In the end, 'human rights' won't protect either of us.

Tony

Tony; Thanks for the reply. I recognize as I said on my first post the South Africa is far from a Utopia.

Is there still a free press? Can one oppose government measures?

I know the crime is appalling. See first statement about Utopia.

[Chris Grieb]

I wanted to note that the reviews of the movie Invictus have been pretty good so I do plan to see it.

[BaalChatzaf]

<referring to South Africa>

Ah well; on the bright side, we went from a white minority-ruled racist, Socialist State,to a black majority-ruled, racist, Socialist State.

Without a blood bath. It could have been Kenya or Rhodesia. Or, heaven forfend Uganda.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[anonrobt]

<referring to South Africa>

Ah well; on the bright side, we went from a white minority-ruled racist, Socialist State,to a black majority-ruled, racist, Socialist State.

Without a blood bath. It could have been Kenya or Rhodesia. Or, heaven forfend Uganda.

Ba'al Chatzaf

That's an excuse?

[BaalChatzaf]

That's an excuse?

No, but it allows a civilized possibility of improvement. There is hope for a better day in South Africa, that does not exist in Uganda or Haiti.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Chris Grieb]

That's an excuse?

No, but it allows a civilized possibility of improvement. There is hope for a better day in South Africa, that does not exist in Uganda or Haiti.

Ba'al Chatzaf

I agree with Ba'al that it is the hope for improvement that keeps some of us optimistic about South Africa. It will not be easy and I have to add that I am not that hopeful about the United States.