9thdoctor Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Peikoff’s latest podcast includes him discussing Rand’s favorite music, it starts about 7 minutes in. He reveals that to “capture the emotional meaning of the end of Atlas Shrugged” she would play the “love music” from Boris Godunov by Mussorgsky. On the last note she would draw a sign of the dollar in the air. I’d never heard this story before. Here’s a youtube link to a performance of the piece: The “love music” starts about 2 minutes in. I’m a big fan of this work and am sure this is the right part (Peikoff isn’t sure of the right Act/Scene).Given the stories of her antipathy to Beethoven, on grounds of malevolence, I’m amazed that she enjoyed Boris Godunov, which is as dark as can be. She would certainly have been exposed to it in Russia, it’s arguably the defining Russian opera, with Eugene Onegin by Tchaikovsky being second in line. Perhaps she only liked this excerpt, its quite different in tone from the rest of the opera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Peikoff's latest podcast includes him discussing Rand's favorite music, it starts about 7 minutes in. He reveals that to "capture the emotional meaning of the end of Atlas Shrugged" she would play the "love music" from Boris Godunov by Mussorgsky. On the last note she would draw a sign of the dollar in the air. I'd never heard this story before. Here's a youtube link to a performance of the piece: The "love music" starts about 2 minutes in. I'm a big fan of this work and am sure this is the right part (Peikoff isn't sure of the right Act/Scene).Given the stories of her antipathy to Beethoven, on grounds of malevolence, I'm amazed that she enjoyed Boris Godunov, which is as dark as can be. She would certainly have been exposed to it in Russia, it's arguably the defining Russian opera, with Eugene Onegin by Tchaikovsky being second in line. Perhaps she only liked this excerpt, its quite different in tone from the rest of the opera.Even in Plato's cave he would be convicted of practicing philosophy without a mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9thdoctor Posted September 17, 2009 Author Share Posted September 17, 2009 Selene, I find your comment ambiguous. Is it a shot at Peikoff? If so it seems out of place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Selene, I find your comment ambiguous. Is it a shot at Peikoff? If so it seems out of place.Yes it was.If it was out of place I apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Boris Godunov was playing at SF Opera last year I think, with one of my favorite Bass singers - same guy who sung Wotan in Wagner's Ring Cycle back in 1999/SF.... (I almost wrote LOTR instead of Wagner's Ring Cycle... geez, I'd blush if this were in person).Never heard of the opera before it was announced in the SF schedule. Maybe I could inspire myself to take a closer look after reading your post.On the topic of heavy and potentially dark work, I never agreed on Rand's views of Beethoven. She said that Beethoven didn't have a positive view of man as a human being... but that's just not true. 5th symphony represents a triumph over fate. 9th symphony, Ode to Joy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginny Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Adam, why are you apologizing? If anyone belongs in Plato's cave ... Ginny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Adam, why are you apologizing? If anyone belongs in Plato's cave ... GinnyLol!I have not conversed with the crazy faced photo yet, so if it was out of place, I apologized.I am not taking back the shot at Peikoff.Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9thdoctor Posted September 17, 2009 Author Share Posted September 17, 2009 BTW the scene in question is omitted sometimes, they did it in Miami a few years ago and they cut the whole Polish act. If there's a cast member listed for "Marina" then the scene will be included. Recordings always include it though.I thought the Peikoff shot was out of place because there was nothing in the material that I shared that gave rise to it. I know this isn't Noodlefood, but I didn't even understand what Selene meant at first, I really thought he'd posted to the wrong thread.Peikoff mentions (same podcast) that there was a particular piece that represented Francisco, but he can't remember what it is. Any chance one of the original collective knows and will share? How to get one of the Branden's attention? Rand's view on Beethoven is not in writing anywhere that I've seen, but I've heard weird tales of her psychologizing those who admitted admiring his music. I've never met anyone who has shared or defended her view.The crazy face photo is Christopher Eccleston as Dr. Who, BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffrey smith Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I've always wondered: if she thought Beethoven's music was malevolent, she must have run screaming out of the room if she ever heard Mahler.It is interesting that the "Polish Act" was one of the additions made to make Boris more palatable for 19th century audiences. There is no real organic connection between this and the arc of dissolution Czar Boris undergoes over the course of the opera, and which forms its emotional core. I saw the Met (NYC) production of Boris back in the late '70s, which was phenomenal: not only was it one of the first major productions to adhere to Mussourgsky's revised version (the one that includes the Polish act), and not the reorchestrated and slightly re-arranged version produced by Rimsky Korsakov, which was the usual version heard for most of the 20th century. The choral performance there was the greatest element, and the chorus received its own standing ovation and curtain call at the end of the performance. If you ever can find it on video or an audio recording, grab it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9thdoctor Posted September 17, 2009 Author Share Posted September 17, 2009 The youtube link above is to a performance of the Rimsky Korsakoff version, which is certainly the version Rand would have known. The original wasn't even recorded until the mid-70's. I prefer the original, the differences are substantial, its too much to go into here.We can only speculate about her reaction to Mahler, but wouldn't you agree the 4th is much less "malevolent" than the Rachmaninoff 2nd Piano Concerto? Much of the Rach is grim and brooding, certainly the 1st movement is. In The Fountainhead she only mentions the 3rd movement, and even it has its dark moments.There's the old story about the MGM exec who demanded that there be "no minor chords" in MGM musicals. Maybe the characterization of her favorite "tiddlywink" music, plus the weird Beethoven stories, leads us to wrongly conclude Rand was just as unsophisticated. I don't think Rand's musical tastes are of much interest, except in this case where it relates to her fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiaer.ts Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 (edited) Christopher Eccleston is one of my favorites. He was wonderful in Elizabeth. And don't get me started on Fanny Ardant!<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object><object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgNhpLy_yzI&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgNhpLy_yzI&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgNhpLy_yzI&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Edited September 17, 2009 by Ted Keer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I'm surprised they counted the 8th doctor as the one in the American movie. Best just to forget about that, even though it wasn't really terrible.C.E. was actually a great doctor, and I'm not clear why they killed him off after only one season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Grieb Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 (edited) The youtube link above is to a performance of the Rimsky Korsakoff version, which is certainly the version Rand would have known. The original wasn't even recorded until the mid-70's. I prefer the original, the differences are substantial, its too much to go into here.We can only speculate about her reaction to Mahler, but wouldn't you agree the 4th is much less "malevolent" than the Rachmaninoff 2nd Piano Concerto? Much of the Rach is grim and brooding, certainly the 1st movement is. In The Fountainhead she only mentions the 3rd movement, and even it has its dark moments.There's the old story about the MGM exec who demanded that there be "no minor chords" in MGM musicals. Maybe the characterization of her favorite "tiddlywink" music, plus the weird Beethoven stories, leads us to wrongly conclude Rand was just as unsophisticated. I don't think Rand's musical tastes are of much interest, except in this case where it relates to her fiction.Ronald Hamoway asked Rand why she liked Rachmaninoff and Hamoway said that her reply was Rachmaninoff was the most rational composer. Hamoway points that the 2nd Piano Concerto was dedicated to Rachmaninoff's psychiatrist. I once heard Miss Rand at NBI say that she would no longer comment on her musical tastes. I suspect she may have found out how ignorant she was on the subject. Edited September 17, 2009 by Chris Grieb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffrey smith Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Ronald Hamoway asked Rand why she liked Rachmaninoff and Hamoway said that her reply was Rachmaninoff was the most rational composer. Hamoway points that the 2nd Piano Concerto was dedicated to Rachmaninoff's psychiatrist. I once heard Miss Rand at NBI say that she would no longer comment on her musical tastes. I suspect she may have found out how ignorant she was on the subject.IIRC, Rachmaninoff credited the psychiatrist with re-igniting his creativity, hence the dedication. Rachmaninoff was like Rand--an refugee from the Soviet regime who had experienced (more violenty and suddenly) the destruction of his personal property and livelihood; his career was that of a creative performer making a living from his own performances (which is why he wrote so little after leaving Russia--he was too busy being a performer, and most of what he wrote was intended for himself as performer); unlike Stravinsky he didn't attempt to deconstruct the musical universe; unlike Prokofiev he didn't return home to make his peace with Stalin (until Stalin decided otherwise near the end of both their lives); unlike Shostakovich (almost Rand's exact contemporary in terms of year and place of birth), he was not sympathetic to the Communist ideals and was not an early collaborator with the Soviet regime before succumbing to the "malevolent universe" premise as the realities of Stalin and his successors bore down on him. It would have been surprising, in those circumstances, for Rand not to have a special liking for the one of the most important Russian musicians of her era.Re: I think Eccleston took the role of the Doctor with the proviso that he only would play it for one season: so it was more his decision than that of the producers. Of course, they could have chosen someone else with a more open ended committment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9thdoctor Posted September 18, 2009 Author Share Posted September 18, 2009 A Google search for "Ayn Rand Boris Godunov" turned up this:http://facetsofaynrand.com/book/chap7.htmlSures says that the Boris music was Halley's theme (the 5th concerto presumably). This is consistent with what Peikoff is saying, though not identical. If anyone would know what the music she associated with Francisco was, I think it would be Allan Blumenthal. Does anyone have contact with him, can someone ask him? For fun, I'm going to speculate that it was this: Bursting with frenetic energy yet nobility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9thdoctor Posted September 18, 2009 Author Share Posted September 18, 2009 In the Mary Ann Sures interview linked to above a couple of unfamiliar works are referenced, both are available on youtube,Mausi:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR4dNorb4c4Who knew Germans could scat?Thomé Simple Aveu:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDM-mY3WBYIA bit of a snoozer at first blush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reidy Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I've long considered Rimsky-Korsakov's Capriccio Espagnol a good match for Francisco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9thdoctor Posted September 19, 2009 Author Share Posted September 19, 2009 Reidy: I agree, I’m changing my vote.On Rachmaninoff, there’s an implication above that because he went to a psychiatrist his rationality is suspect. Rachmaninoff was affected by the negative public and critical reaction to his 1st Symphony, he lost his self-confidence, he got some therapy, and went on to produce his best work. Given this I’d say his going to a psychiatrist was laudable, in fact a credit to his rationality. Nevertheless, I don’t think Rand’s statement ("most rational composer") is supportable. FWIW they’re both buried in the same cemetery in New York (Kensico). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Campbell Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 This is an interesting byway.I wouldn't have expected Ayn Rand to like anything in Boris Godunov.I know the opera only from recordings (Gergiev doing the unadorned Mussorgsky score; Christoff with Cluytens in the Rimskified rendition). I should think it would be worth seeing live.Robert Campbell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Campbell Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 I certainly don't fault Rachmaninoff for going to Dr. Dahl.But how do you determine who was the most rational composer?Robert Campbell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9thdoctor Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share Posted September 28, 2009 Rachmaninoff’s therapy was nothing like you see in Woody Allen’s characters (e.g. Annie Hall). He’s been going for 10-20 years, he writes it off as a religious contribution, and if he’s not cured by next year he’s going to Lourdes. I was only pointing out an implication in the statement attributed to Ronald Hamoway, I don’t know who that is, maybe there’s more context behind it. I don't think you can speak of a most rational composer, there's no meaningful way to measure. Obviously Bach vs. Ozzy is no contest, but Bach vs. Handel? Boris Godunov is a great spectacle, a faithful production should be a feast for the eyes and ears. BTW that period in Russian history received a good recent movie treatment, its called 1612. This thread got me thinking about thematic similarities between Boris and Atlas Shrugged. In Boris, “the people”, represented by the chorus, are shown to be complicit in their own sufferings. From here to Rand’s concept of the sanction of the victim takes a step or two, but I think a link can be made. Boris may have been an inspiration. I’m reminded that Ronald Merrill made a neat case for Rand being inspired by the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9thdoctor Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share Posted September 28, 2009 Also "the Tramp" from Atlas is similar to the "Holy Fool" character in Boris. But Holy Fools (aka village idiots) occur in a lot of Russian literature, so the connection remains tenuous. BTW the story for Boris Godunov was by Pushkin, who's often characterized as the Russian Shakespeare. I heard/read somewhere that Rand thought highly of Pushkin, I think it was in one of Peikoff's podcasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Rachmaninoff’s therapy after the debacle of his First Symphony involved hypnosis and being fed positive suggestions during the trance. I remember this from the bios I read of him years ago.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9thdoctor Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 MSK: There doesn’t seem to be a subtext to your post, but to be sure, are you implying there’s something wrong or irrational about post-hypnotic suggestion? I don’t know enough about it to have an opinion. I remember a story (from Judgement Day?) about NB hypnotizing someone in front of AR.Talking about Atlas and music, if the Atlas movie ever gets off the ground, I bet this will be the temp track for the first running of the John Galt line: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5rX0EjPqig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Talking about Atlas and music, if the Atlas movie ever gets off the ground, I bet this will be the temp track for the first running of the John Galt line: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=P5rX0EjPqigYodah says: Do not your breath hold until made is the -Atlas Shrugged- movie, else blue turn you will.Ba'al Chatzaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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