Ahoy

[young_dumb]

I've already posted but figured it wouldn't hurt to introduce myself properly.

My name is Eliot, I live in a small rural town in the middle of the North Island of New Zealand. I study Architecture and care about it deeply. I've recently taken a job offer as a junior Architectural Draughter for a local firm. Nothing as glamorous as Mr Roark I'm afraid, I didn't seek my new boss out, nor am I particularly enamored by his designs. I need a job in the industry so I can one day be able to design how I want.

I was given The Fountainhead for my 24th birthday recently and it appealed to me intensely, and not just the Architectural side. I'm from a generation who have coasted for the past 20 or so years on the coat tails of former generations, having achieved little and caring even less about it. The idea of knowing what you love, and doing whatever it takes to make your progression toward it, is beautiful, and an alien concept to myself and my peers/generation I think.

I don't understand Objectivism as much as I want to, but I'm working hard on it. In the sub-24 hours I've spent on these forums, I've already learned more than I previously knew.

I look forward to hearing from the more scholarly among you on Objectivism. I apologise in advance for my likely lacking in grammar/spelling. I blame the difference in kiwi and U.S. dictionary!

Off to the mail box to collect my new copy of Anthem

[Chris Grieb]

Welcome; Why don't you call yourself young and ignorant. That is a lot different from being young and stupid or dumb. Welcome!

[Selene]

Welcome:

Chris is correct. I mentioned something similar on your other thread not having read this one yet.

As Kat will tell you, Anthem is available on this site which once you read your copy, you can reach out

to your network and just send Anthem to them online.

You will be the person who designs your vision. It is your life to build. Start with the sub-foundation - make it strong and build till you pierce the sky.

Adam

Edited May 21, 2009 by Selene

[sbeaulieu]

YD,

There are a lot of good brains (each with their unique take on anything and everything) to pick here. Welcome to the site and hope you'll stay longer than just for happy hour ;)

~ Shane

[Alfonso Jones]

I've already posted but figured it wouldn't hurt to introduce myself properly.

My name is Eliot, I live in a small rural town in the middle of the North Island of New Zealand. I study Architecture and care about it deeply. I've recently taken a job offer as a junior Architectural Draughter for a local firm. Nothing as glamorous as Mr Roark I'm afraid, I didn't seek my new boss out, nor am I particularly enamored by his designs. I need a job in the industry so I can one day be able to design how I want.

I was given The Fountainhead for my 24th birthday recently and it appealed to me intensely, and not just the Architectural side. I'm from a generation who have coasted for the past 20 or so years on the coat tails of former generations, having achieved little and caring even less about it. The idea of knowing what you love, and doing whatever it takes to make your progression toward it, is beautiful, and an alien concept to myself and my peers/generation I think.

I don't understand Objectivism as much as I want to, but I'm working hard on it. In the sub-24 hours I've spent on these forums, I've already learned more than I previously knew.

I look forward to hearing from the more scholarly among you on Objectivism. I apologise in advance for my likely lacking in grammar/spelling. I blame the difference in kiwi and U.S. dictionary!

Off to the mail box to collect my new copy of Anthem

I concur that "dumb" is probably not an appropriate moniker, and urge you to consider revising it. Your postings thus far do not suggest "dumb" at all.

Welcome to OL! Post. I urge you to work hard to understand what Rand said and meant - and the best source for that is what she wrote. She was a brilliant lady - if you think you see superficial flaws, there's a good chance you have misunderstood a term. (I suggest The Ayn Rand Lexicon, available in print and online at http://aynrandlexicon.com/, as a reference to get a few quick quotes from Rand on what she had to say on a topic (or how she defined a term.)

Bill P

[Chris Grieb]

Eliot; That is what I will call you. After Anthem read Atlas. Also look into the non-fiction of Miss Rand.

[Brant Gaede]

Better "Young Dumb" than "Old Dumb." In a few years I think I'll call myself "Old and Bold." Right now I'm pretending 65 is the middle of middle age, which in my family is not so far from the truth.

--Brant

liar

[Christopher]

Welcome Eliot! If you're into learning about Objectivism, I think Virtue of Selfishness really spells out the philosophy quite well.

Looking forward to reading your posts,

Christopher

[Selene]

Oh no!

Now all I can hear in my head is ET saying - Elllliiiiioooooottttt!

Adam

[Backlighting]

Welcome Eliot.

In addition to reading Rand's works, may I suggest you view her interviews on youtube.

I particularly like:

[Selene]

Thank you LA!

Man, I have to start looking at that old stuff - it was almost painful watching how good she was.

Her eyes almost never stopped "measuring" Tom, who was an excellent interviewer.

And her use of her left hand to double check whether they were "hot" was a pleasure. To watch how eager

she was to communicate her brilliant ideas. A pleasure indeed.

Thanks

I did not realize that she responded to his religion question that "You [the human] have not chosen it [religion] rationally."

Of course, raised the question in my mind, is it possible to chose a religion rationally.

Adam

[anonrobt]

Thank you LA!

Man, I have to start looking at that old stuff - it was almost painful watching how good she was.

Her eyes almost never stopped "measuring" Tom, who was an excellent interviewer.

And her use of her left hand to double check whether they were "hot" was a pleasure. To watch how eager

she was to communicate her brilliant ideas. A pleasure indeed.

Thanks

I did not realize that she responded to his religion question that "You [the human] have not chosen it [religion] rationally."

Of course, raised the question in my mind, is it possible to chose a religion rationally.

Adam

Good question... For myself, would have to say no - and further, would say she implied that in her statement... but, from seeing many discussions on the nature of religion, would add there are many others who would claim the utmost in rationality that some form of religion is a necessity...

[Selene]

Precisely.

That view of an eternal order, for example, and objectivism statement of conviction that reality is objective are so close in their intention as to be equal.

The torturous theological trampoline act by Catholics trying to "explain" how Mother Theresa could have doubted God was frankly comical to me.

Since their own "Savior" doubted Him in their own revealed word of God's rulebook. I could not understand the hullabaloo anyway.

Adam

[young_dumb]

Thanks folks, I appreciate the welcome

Atlas Shrugged is next on the list, in fact I just purchased it locally.

Finished Anthem for the first time last night. Will be starting it again tonight. Very different style of writing to The Fountainhead, and the length (or lack of) was strange also. A much clearer message I felt, possibly more simplistic?

[Michelle]

I have the temptation to make a somewhat lewd comment, but I'll control myself, and merely say "hello."

[Michelle]

Thanks folks, I appreciate the welcome

Atlas Shrugged is next on the list, in fact I just purchased it locally.

Finished Anthem for the first time last night. Will be starting it again tonight. Very different style of writing to The Fountainhead, and the length (or lack of) was strange also. A much clearer message I felt, possibly more simplistic?

Like Anthem? Try reading We by Yevgeny Zamyatin. It was written several years before Anthem, and the two books have several similarities. In fact, I have a hard time believing Rand's book wasn't a response of sorts to "We."

[Selene]

Interesting book - never read it yet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_(novel)

[young_dumb]

Hi all,

Have since read Atlas (twice), Fountainhead again, Anthem, and am starting on non-fiction. I still hang around, just do a lot of reading.

Words fail me when attempting to describe how Rand's work has changed my thought processes in every instance of life. I have far more control over my emotions, I have a better grip on social situations, and others' misguided opinions have taken on a lack of importance.

The only problem now is how much I think about her books. Although I'm studying, I find myself continually mulling things over. I even forget major dates of value to me. I am typically a voracious reader, but have read nothing but her works, and only a small number, in almost 6 months. I desire to know more about her way of thinking in ways I've never encountered over any other topic except Architecture.

Which leads me to my questions. I'll ask here, but can move them elsewhere if need be.

Likely easy one to start with. Why does Dominique Francon work against Howard Roark? Upon reading TF for the 2nd time, it occurred to me it had something to do with her and the smashing of the statue she loved, but didn't want to be "controlled" by.

It's 1am here, and I've just got home from school, so I'd best get some sleep. I'll find the book I've been writing my questions down in tomorrow.

[Reidy]

Dominique works against Roark because she doesn't believe his talent and his character have a chance in the world. She wants to bring him down before he hurts himself worse by continuing to struggle. Eventually the events of the story show otherwise.

This touches on the statue incident in that she destroyed it out of an unwillingness to share its beauty with the same vulgar world that she thinks will destroy Roark.

[Selene]

Dominique works against Roark because she doesn't believe his talent and his character have a chance in the world. She wants to bring him down before he hurts himself worse by continuing to struggle. Eventually the events of the story show otherwise.

This touches on the statue incident in that she destroyed it out of an unwillingness to share its beauty with the same vulgar world that she thinks will destroy Roark.

Reidy:

As usual, exactly correct.

Additionally, Ayn referred to her "Dominique" character as "Me...on a bad day!"

I've seen those eyes narrow and hone in on some psychologically trembling acolyte and it was not a pretty sight.

Elliot, just a caution, look at the major characters as archtypal representations of "personality types". Stay focused on yourself.

Ayn was one of the most brilliant persons that I have ever met. I did not know her away from NBI, but she was a critical person in how I solidified

my ethical and moral base to my individualism and anti government positions. I was 14 or 15 when I closed the cover of Atlas and said, but of course.

Just stay true to yourself, not her. She is dead. Her vision and ideas live through us.

Adam

Edited October 20, 2009 by Selene

[young_dumb]

Dominique works against Roark because she doesn't believe his talent and his character have a chance in the world. She wants to bring him down before he hurts himself worse by continuing to struggle. Eventually the events of the story show otherwise.

This touches on the statue incident in that she destroyed it out of an unwillingness to share its beauty with the same vulgar world that she thinks will destroy Roark.

Reidy:

As usual, exactly correct.

Additionally, Ayn referred to her "Dominique" character as "Me...on a bad day!"

I've seen those eyes narrow and hone in on some psychologically trembling acolyte and it was not a pretty sight.

Elliot, just a caution, look at the major characters as archtypal representations of "personality types". Stay focused on yourself.

Ayn was one of the most brilliant persons that I have ever met. I did not know her away from NBI, but she was a critical person in how I solidified

my ethical and moral base to my individualism and anti government positions. I was 14 or 15 when I closed the cover of Atlas and said, but of course.

Just stay true to yourself, not her. She is dead. Her vision and ideas live through us.

Adam

I understand that Roark and Galt don't exist, never have, and never will, and the best I can do is to understand what aspects of them apply to me. I don't pretend to know anywhere enough to consider entering into discussion with others of different beliefs. I'm a believer in the old saying "It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid, then open it and remove all doubt."

Though the first part of that I'm not so sure is true.

Thanks for the explanation Reidy, of course after posting I got into bed and thought about it for a good hour!

[Alfonso Jones]

Dominique works against Roark because she doesn't believe his talent and his character have a chance in the world. She wants to bring him down before he hurts himself worse by continuing to struggle. Eventually the events of the story show otherwise.

This touches on the statue incident in that she destroyed it out of an unwillingness to share its beauty with the same vulgar world that she thinks will destroy Roark.

Good post, Reidy. On target and admirably succinct.

Bill P

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I'm a believer in the old saying "It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid, then open it and remove all doubt."

Though the first part of that I'm not so sure is true.

Young_dumb,

I vastly prefer a Chinese saying: Ask a stupid question and you are stupid for a minute. Don't ask that stupid question and you are stupid for a lifetime.

I believe that the fuel that runs the motor of thinking for yourself is the courage to ask stupid questions in innocence and good will.

Michael

[young_dumb]

I'm a believer in the old saying "It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid, then open it and remove all doubt."

Though the first part of that I'm not so sure is true.

Young_dumb,

I vastly prefer a Chinese saying: Ask a stupid question and you are stupid for a minute. Don't ask that stupid question and you are stupid for a lifetime.

I believe that the fuel that runs the motor of thinking for yourself is the courage to ask stupid questions in innocence and good will.

Michael

Thanks for that.

Purchased The Fountainhead for a friend today. Although it's for their birthday, she is rather flighty, so the decision to purchase it for her was at least partially for my own benefit, as I'm interested to see the response to it from someone who doesn't embrace many Objective principles in their life.

Enjoying this forum immensely. I like being part of a grown-up forum where everyone uses punctuation and spells correctly! The reading continues

[Chris Grieb]

I'm a believer in the old saying "It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid, then open it and remove all doubt."

Though the first part of that I'm not so sure is true.

Young_dumb,

I vastly prefer a Chinese saying: Ask a stupid question and you are stupid for a minute. Don't ask that stupid question and you are stupid for a lifetime.

I believe that the fuel that runs the motor of thinking for yourself is the courage to ask stupid questions in innocence and good will.

Michael

Thanks for that.

Purchased The Fountainhead for a friend today. Although it's for their birthday, she is rather flighty, so the decision to purchase it for her was at least partially for my own benefit, as I'm interested to see the response to it from someone who doesn't embrace many Objective principles in their life.

Enjoying this forum immensely. I like being part of a grown-up forum where everyone uses punctuation and spells correctly! The reading continues

Eliot; Thanks for the complement. I think.