ginny Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 According to the website, the bookstore is closing. Taken together with their lack of summer conference, et al, it looks like they are folding. DAMN!! I'm thinking that leaves ARI as the last entity standing. What a tragedy.Ginny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 According to the website, the bookstore is closing. Taken together with their lack of summer conference, et al, it looks like they are folding. DAMN!! I'm thinking that leaves ARI as the last entity standing. What a tragedy.Probably means they don't/won't/can't afford an employee to run the bookstore and fill orders.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginny Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 Looks as if they can't afford anything anymore. It's a shame.Ginny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SherryTX Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Does this mean that The New Individualist Magazine won't be published any longer? I tried subscribing the other night and it didn't work - I thought perhaps technology was just mocking me. I haven't agreed with everything I have read online over there, but was interested in getting the mag, since there isn't really a non academic-ish regular print publication about Objectivism, at least that I have found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfonso Jones Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Looks as if they can't afford anything anymore. It's a shame.GinnyYes. I will note that Nathaniel Branden's Basic Principles of OBjectivism is included in the 40% off sale.Bill P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SherryTX Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Is there someone in authority at TAS that could possibly confirm whether they are retooling - maybe shutting the bookstore to use an alternative method to sell books/cds - or if they are indeed shutting down?Forgive me if I am being presumptuous in asking here; however, I think it would be good if someone that can speak for TAS could confirm this so we don't lose a lot of energy speculating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Grieb Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Sherry; I will check with TAS today but folks there is something called the phone. I suspect if you have a computer you have a phone. The phone will be answered if you call between 9AM and 5PM EST weekdays. I come to believe that there are some people whose answer to any problem involving TAS is to make charges and ask questions later. Shame on you. Get a Life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Biggers Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 (edited) Excuse me? When they make an abrupt and unexplained announcement about terminating (again) one of their major activities - their concerned supporters need to call them for an explanation??!! Is there some reason that they cannot explain such an action on their website?We all (or most of us, anyway) have admired the principled stand that the founders and current leadership of The Atlas Society have taken. Many of us have given financial support, and/or attended their conferences, bought their literature, recommended the organization to others interested in Objectivism, written favorable reviews of the publications on websites such as Amazon, volunteered at manning their booth at CPAC - or elsewhere, and have spoken up or defended the stands taken by TAS - on OL and on other internet forums.With all of that being the case, I do not think it is unreasonable or inappropriate to express concern on this forum or elsewhere about organizational policies and practices, particularly when something is abruptly announced that would imply concern about the current and future direction of the organization.In the case of The Objectivism Bookstore, one has to go to that particular section on the TAS website, where one is greeted with the following rather startling statement: "We are closing our doors!.....For this going out of business sale, all purchases are final." Any explanation for this rather alarming and abrupt statement? Nope. Perhaps if we look elsewhere on the TAS website, such as their section on "TAS news and events" ? Any mention of their bookstore closing, or what if anything, will take its place? Nope.We were recently informed by TAS that they would not have their Summer Institute, even though it has been the one annual event where TAS members from across the country could meet and share their enthusiasm for Objectivism. We were told that the Society needed to appropriate those funds to more important issues (even though Will Thomas has stated that the Summer Institutes were financially self-sustaining and did not use other TAS funds) , such as the re-design of their website to make it more "user-friendly." So far, the only change in the site has been the above mentioned note - upon clicking to enter their bookstore: "Surprise, we're going out of business" (or words to that effect. See above for their exact wording).TAS is not ARI. It's not NBI, either. We are not supplicants. They are not above criticism, and/or stated concerns about organizational issues from their supporters. The advocates of "Open Objectivism" need to be, well, a little more "open" about what is going in their own organization. Edited February 25, 2009 by Jerry Biggers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SherryTX Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Sherry; I will check with TAS today but folks there is something called the phone. I suspect if you have a computer you have a phone. The phone will be answered if you call between 9AM and 5PM EST weekdays. I come to believe that there are some people whose answer to any problem involving TAS is to make charges and ask questions later. Shame on you. Get a Life!Okay - yeah - I do have a phone. It's been my experience when I call a business directly and say - Hey I heard a rumor that you are closing, what's going on? I don't am told something like they haven't heard about that, they don't confirm things like that except in press releases yadda yadda. (I have done this before several times actually, when trying to follow up leads on companies closing down and laying off.)I was asking here because I thought that perhaps there were people officially connected with TAS that read this message board that may what to clear it up officially.It's isn't about getting a life - it is about respecting proper channels when possible so that mis-information is not spread further by accident.This isn't making charges - this is seeking actual FACTS. I am not trying to push anything negative about TAS, and I think it would be a shame if this is more than just them revamping their bookstore or bookstore vendor or whatever. I don't know whom I would contact at TAS that could give an official answer. What's wrong with asking for someone with authority to comment on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Grieb Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I'm sorry my suggestion that some of you use the phone to find out what is going on at a place you are concerned about. Use your phone and find out for yourself. After I made a call to Atlas Society I was told the Atlas Bookstore is not closing. Biggers; Find something else to bitch about the Atlas Society. This last sentence I am not sorry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Grieb Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Sherry; Ed Hudgins posts from time to time on this web site. He is the person in charge of TAS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Biggers Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 (edited) I'm sorry my suggestion that some of you use the phone to find out what is going on at a place you are concerned about. Use your phone and find out for yourself. After I made a call to Atlas Society I was told the Atlas Bookstore is not closing. Biggers; Find something else to bitch about the Atlas Society. This last sentence I am not sorry about.Chris,Following your advice after reading what you just said, I immediately switched over to the Atlas Society site. Hmmm, strange, it still said that their bookstore was closing and going out of business. Well, following up again on your advice (part of it - I'll get to your other suggestion for me in a moment), you will be happy to know that I promptly called The Atlas Society and was told that the bookstore was not closing. Interesting. I asked for an explanation as to why their own website says otherwise. Their response was, "There was a 'misunderstanding' between us and those running the bookstore" (which as you know, is in sunny Alabama, not D.C.). I was informed that the notice of closing posted on the bookstore section will be removed "maybe tomorrow." What that means for their announced "store closing" discounts was not explained.Well, that was very clear. Thanks for your suggestion to call them, though. I learned so much from their explanation. Chris, Thank you for your suggestion that I "find something else to bitch about the Atlas Society."You mean there's more? Well, I'll see what else I can find, but I thought I had covered the major points. Please feel free to voice your own discoveries here.Seriously, Chris, we all want The Atlas Society to be a success. But that does not mean that we cannot inquire about the actions. This would be a good time to order their 40% discounts in their "Store closing" sale. - Even though it is not. Edited February 25, 2009 by Jerry Biggers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SherryTX Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Sherry; Ed Hudgins posts from time to time on this web site. He is the person in charge of TAS.Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Grieb Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Sherry; First thing is I do like you. I think you are a great addition to this forum. Let me also add that I find that if Ed Hudgins is available he will take a callJerry; I don't have any new bad report about TAS. I hope that doesn't disappoint you. To be honest I find you seem to see the most negative explanation about any report from TAS. If I am wrong I'm sorry. The only question I would add is why not make the telephone call first rather than posting on OL.On CPAC I'm glad that if CPAC effort was not producing results that TAS has decided not to do it. I would hope you would be pleased too.Let me add that the marketing of TAS unlike ARI is not easy and needs all our thinking. I hope we all to more to help with this wonderful task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SherryTX Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Sherry; First thing is I do like you. I think you are a great addition to this forum. Let me also add that I find that if Ed Hudgins is available he will take a callJerry; I don't have any new bad report about TAS. I hope that doesn't disappoint you. To be honest I find you seem to see the most negative explanation about any report from TAS. If I am wrong I'm sorry. The only question I would add is why not make the telephone call first rather than posting on OL.On CPAC I'm glad that if CPAC effort was not producing results that TAS has decided not to do it. I would hope you would be pleased too.Let me add that the marketing of TAS unlike ARI is not easy and needs all our thinking. I hope we all to more to help with this wonderful task.No worries! =) It's all good. The debating here seems pretty healthy. Much tamer (and more mature) than most of the other O'ist boards I have been on. I take it all with a grain of salt.You do make a good point about calling before posting about it. I hadn't thought about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 It's all good.Sherry,I lived for over 30 years in Brazil. When I left, this phrase was not in use. On my return (a little over 4 years ago), I have heard this sporadically. It always brings a smile to my face.(Now that's an odd expression... It is a common one, but I wonder if you can smile anywhere else but your face... Oops! there's a smiley, so I guess you can... )I find the phrase, "it's all good" delightful. I always take it as a sense-of-life statement of value. A small nugget of the American spirit.It expresses exactly the way I feel about living and loving.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SherryTX Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 It's all good.Sherry,I lived for over 30 years in Brazil. When I left, this phrase was not in use. On my return (a little over 4 years ago), I have heard this sporadically. It always brings a smile to my face.(Now that's an odd expression... It is a common one, but I wonder if you can smile anywhere else but your face... Oops! there's a smiley, so I guess you can... )I find the phrase, "it's all good" delightful. I always take it as a sense-of-life statement of value. A small nugget of the American spirit.It expresses exactly the way I feel about living and loving.MichaelCool beans. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Biggers Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Sherry; First thing is I do like you. I think you are a great addition to this forum. Let me also add that I find that if Ed Hudgins is available he will take a callJerry; I don't have any new bad report about TAS. I hope that doesn't disappoint you. To be honest I find you seem to see the most negative explanation about any report from TAS. If I am wrong I'm sorry. The only question I would add is why not make the telephone call first rather than posting on OL.On CPAC I'm glad that if CPAC effort was not producing results that TAS has decided not to do it. I would hope you would be pleased too.Let me add that the marketing of TAS unlike ARI is not easy and needs all our thinking. I hope we all to more to help with this wonderful task.Chris,No bad news about TAS? That's good! Here's some more good news, probably already mentioned elsewhere in this forum: the new (Spring 2009) issue of The New Individualist is out and it has many extremely interesting articles. It's larger (96 pages) than the previous monthly and the graphics and physical layout of the magazine have also improved (which is a good trick since the previous issues of TNI also had great graphics). Distribution of this issue in the academic communities and with businessmen and other professionals would have the potential for increasing the visibility and recognition of TAS among Objectivists, libertarians, and others interested in Rand's philosophy and its application to today's world.When compared on these attributes with another journal (The Objective Standard) competing for the same audience, this issue of The New Individualist "blows the competition out of the water." Now that I have brought up the issue of visibility, the publication of The Logical Structure of Objectivism could go a long way towards giving The Atlas Society (and, of course, its authors David Kelley and Wil Thomas) the intellectual recognition that it deserves. Even in its "beta version" on the TAS website it shows a depth of understanding of Objectivism that puts Peikoff's OPAR to shame.Without its publication, the only comprehensive survey of the Objectivist system that is readily available is OPAR. This is a situation that should not go unchallenged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfonso Jones Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Sherry; First thing is I do like you. I think you are a great addition to this forum. Let me also add that I find that if Ed Hudgins is available he will take a callJerry; I don't have any new bad report about TAS. I hope that doesn't disappoint you. To be honest I find you seem to see the most negative explanation about any report from TAS. If I am wrong I'm sorry. The only question I would add is why not make the telephone call first rather than posting on OL.On CPAC I'm glad that if CPAC effort was not producing results that TAS has decided not to do it. I would hope you would be pleased too.Let me add that the marketing of TAS unlike ARI is not easy and needs all our thinking. I hope we all to more to help with this wonderful task.Chris,No bad news about TAS? That's good! Here's some more good news, probably already mentioned elsewhere in this forum: the new (Spring 2009) issue of The New Individualist is out and it has many extremely interesting articles. It's larger (96 pages) than the previous monthly and the graphics and physical layout of the magazine have also improved (which is a good trick since the previous issues of TNI also had great graphics). Distribution of this issue in the academic communities and with businessmen and other professionals would have the potential for increasing the visibility and recognition of TAS among Objectivists, libertarians, and others interested in Rand's philosophy and its application to today's world.When compared on these attributes with another journal (The Objective Standard) competing for the same audience, this issue of The New Individualist "blows the competition out of the water." Now that I have brought up the issue of visibility, the publication of The Logical Structure of Objectivism could go a long way towards giving The Atlas Society (and, of course, its authors David Kelley and Wil Thomas) the intellectual recognition that it deserves. Even in its "beta version" on the TAS website it shows a depth of understanding of Objectivism that puts Peikoff's OPAR to shame.Without its publication, the only comprehensive survey of the Objectivist system that is readily available is OPAR. This is a situation that should not go unchallenged.Yes. Objectivist thinkers need to publish. It will not suffice to moan about the poor things someone else writes or says. There are several Objectivist philosophers - where that appears to be their full-time vocation - who have done very little writing. The oral tradition will not suffice long term. It is hard to cite and to critique. WHile it may be very easy to assimilate for those who want to "pour the words into their brains" it is no substitute for a rich and robust written corpus - where critique is possible, and knowledge can be built upon knowledge.Bill P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Grieb Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Sherry; First thing is I do like you. I think you are a great addition to this forum. Let me also add that I find that if Ed Hudgins is available he will take a callJerry; I don't have any new bad report about TAS. I hope that doesn't disappoint you. To be honest I find you seem to see the most negative explanation about any report from TAS. If I am wrong I'm sorry. The only question I would add is why not make the telephone call first rather than posting on OL.On CPAC I'm glad that if CPAC effort was not producing results that TAS has decided not to do it. I would hope you would be pleased too.Let me add that the marketing of TAS unlike ARI is not easy and needs all our thinking. I hope we all to more to help with this wonderful task.Chris,No bad news about TAS? That's good! Here's some more good news, probably already mentioned elsewhere in this forum: the new (Spring 2009) issue of The New Individualist is out and it has many extremely interesting articles. It's larger (96 pages) than the previous monthly and the graphics and physical layout of the magazine have also improved (which is a good trick since the previous issues of TNI also had great graphics). Distribution of this issue in the academic communities and with businessmen and other professionals would have the potential for increasing the visibility and recognition of TAS among Objectivists, libertarians, and others interested in Rand's philosophy and its application to today's world.When compared on these attributes with another journal (The Objective Standard) competing for the same audience, this issue of The New Individualist "blows the competition out of the water." Now that I have brought up the issue of visibility, the publication of The Logical Structure of Objectivism could go a long way towards giving The Atlas Society (and, of course, its authors David Kelley and Wil Thomas) the intellectual recognition that it deserves. Even in its "beta version" on the TAS website it shows a depth of understanding of Objectivism that puts Peikoff's OPAR to shame.Without its publication, the only comprehensive survey of the Objectivist system that is readily available is OPAR. This is a situation that should not go unchallenged.Jerry; I agree about TNI. It does look very good.David Kelley told me that he is working on his logic book and hopes to get to Logical Structure after that. I agree it would be a great addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Grieb Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Bill P, We are in complete agreement about the oral tradition in Objectivism. Books are what last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 According to the website, the bookstore is closing. Taken together with their lack of summer conference, et al, it looks like they are folding. DAMN!! I'm thinking that leaves ARI as the last entity standing. What a tragedy.GinnyThe Last One Standing is The Winner. Natural selection does not take prisoners. Ba'al Chatzaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Biggers Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 O.K., here's a news bulletin re: TAS Objectivism Bookstore is closing -I called the bookstore directly (1-880-649-3158) to place an order and of course to see if they are still offering a 40% discount. According to the current bookstore owners, they ARE closing, and the 40% clearance sale is still on. They are taking orders based on that decision. So, if OL readers are interested in the 40% discount, now is the time to place your orders.Anyway, I placed my order directly with them by phone (which I recommend), rather than use the website order method.I then called The Atlas Society in Washington, again, to get further clarification (because yesterday, their response was that it was a 'misunderstanding.') They now say that the current Alabama-based Objectivism Bookstore will be closing. However, books, literature, audio and video material, and other merchandise will soon be integrated into the revamped, redesigned website that TAS is in the process of completing. When that occurs, all literature offered by TAS will be available on that site through an expanded and user-friendly ordering process."And that is the rest of the story." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Grieb Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 So TAS will have a bookstore. The current one will close.Jerry; Isn't it easier to do things by speaking to people on the phone. Perhaps making a call rather that making gloom and doom posts on this web site. Just an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Biggers Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 So TAS will have a bookstore. The current one will close.Jerry; Isn't it easier to do things by speaking to people on the phone. Perhaps making a call rather that making gloom and doom posts on this web site. Just an idea.(sigh) I would like to point out that I had to call TAS yesterday, then the Objectivism Bookstore today, and then TAS again to get the real story. If I had stopped after yesterday's calls, then the incorrect information would have been left standing. Do you want the 40% discount, or not?What you label as "doom and gloom," I call accuracy. If I see positive things occuring, I point them out. If I see problems (not the same as 'doom and gloom'), then I mention those. Feel free to examine my prior postings.Objectivism may be correct as a philosophy. As a movement, it has not been so successful (gross understatement). There have been a string of disastrous decisions made by those who have claimed to represent this philosophy. Too many to elaborate on here. In fact, another organization that claims to be the voice for Objectivism, rather than admit that any errors have been made, has apparently institutionalized those errors into policiesThis problem is perpetuated by ignoring or downplaying any errors that have been made.To paraphrase Santayana: "Those who ignore the lessons of history are condemned to repeat them." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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