Ignorance is Not Bliss

[Donovan A.]

Every action taken by man depends on knowledge (identifying the facts of reality correctly) and knowledge can only be obtained by a process of reasoning, which means integrating data provided by the senses (facts) into abstractions. The idea that ignorance is bliss depends on and embraces the primacy of consciousness principle. So let us ask, how is not knowing, bliss? Suppose you are faced with a problem. Identifying that you have a problem is knowledge, so is it bliss to not be able to identify the problem? If you cannot identify a problem, by what means can you solve it? Consciousness is a process of identification, all identification is knowledge, so surely identification is not a vice.

In my view, the idea that ignorance is bliss means that a person only wants to consume, only wants to feel good, only wants to be happy, only wants emotions to be causeless and disconnected from reality, only wants reality to conform to wishes, fears hopes and demands. Such a person wants to believe that if they do not know, then it does not exist. The concept that ignorance is bliss is a self-contradiction. If ignorance is truly bliss, ask yourself what it would mean to wipe out all abstractions. Would you not have to wipe out the abstraction that ignorance is bliss? Obviously this is not what people mean by ignorance is bliss, they do not mean it would be better to live as a plant or as any other unconscious life-form. This chain of reasoning would be considered extreme. So instead, one might say "some things I want to know, they make me happy and some things I don't want to know they make me unhappy or fearful or cause anxiety."

Ask yourself, why do we feel anxiety, why do we feel fear, what causes such emotions? When you identify that something is a threat to your life (knowledge), to your values (more knowledge), you feel the appropriate emotions and such emotions should be proportional to your value judgments. Emotions, even negative emotions serve a purpose because they act as instant motivators.

Evasion is not a virtue, it is the blanking out of facts, of knowledge and reality. Now one might ask, wouldn't it be wonderful to be a child again, ignorant, innocent and protected from reality? Even a child cannot live without some knowledge, or some abstractions, some understanding of cause and effect. I would also like to point out that it seems people have a rather compartmentalized memory of what it means to be a child. As a child, you may scream and cry in hope that someone, somehow will provide you with some new toy, who will provide it? What if your parents cannot afford such a toy? How about going to school, homework, dependence, and the inability to make judgements, to pursue your values. Was everyday as a child filled with bliss? Look back on your life and think about all the mistakes you have made, were those mistakes the result of knowledge or a lack of knowledge? Ignorance is not bliss, wisdom is bliss. Never substitute ignorance for wisdom, never assume that ignorance will bring happiness.

[tjohnson]

It's only an expression, of course it isn't always applicable. It simply means that when you are unaware of some issues then you don't worry about them. Why so serious?

[Donovan A.]

I'm not sure that such expressions are quite as innocuous as you might think. A friend of mine firmly believes in the expression as a fact, which is what lead me to make that post. I do not think it is an accident that he often looks for ways to dull his mind, drink to excess and blank out his problems. In my opinion, the use of such a statement is a dire cry for dependence and should not be allowed into one's subconscious thinking. I attempt to be very conscious of what I allow into my mind, just as I attempt to be very conscious of what I drink and eat.

DA

[tjohnson]

I'm not sure that such expressions are quite as innocuous as you might think. A friend of mine firmly believes in the expression as a fact, which is what lead me to make that post. I do not think it is an accident that he often looks for ways to dull his mind, drink to excess and blank out his problems. In my opinion, the use of such a statement is a dire cry for dependence and should not be allowed into one's subconscious thinking. I attempt to be very conscious of what I allow into my mind, just as I attempt to be very conscious of what I drink and eat.

DA

Oh, I think I see what you mean now, you mean he purposefully doesn't want to know things that could infringe on his bliss? If so, that's a little different.

[SherryTX]

I have found that people that outwardly subscribe to "ignorance is bliss" are the ones that - as you have stated, want to be dependent only on others, and take no real action or responsibility for their lives.

However, I have known those that at first seem to fall under this category - but then in probing deeper, find that they are overwhelmed, and so sometimes they feel like NOT knowing that there is a problem - or being afraid to find out the root cause, amounts to the same thing. Yes, they are evading - but many of these people do so because they have not learned how to deal with problems head on - or even handle the knowledge that there may be a problem.

This is something that I personally had to over come as a young adult. I was raised in a "crisis mode" environment, and it was very very difficult to get out of that mode of thought. It was easier to ignore problems, and just try to "enjoy life" through shallow activities so I could continue (or try to continue) to post pone dealing with problems and ignore them.

I post this not because I think it is excusable that any adult should continue in this manner. However, from personal experience, I find it understandable when people have a hard time grasping and finally accepting that no, ignorance is NOT bliss, and that they have the free will to figure out and deals with problems so that they can take responsibility for their lives. I have taken many years to get out of this mind set myself, and I am willing to admit that I am not completely out of the woods in this area. Though, I can honestly state that if I hadn't found Objectivism, I would be no where close to where I am now. I certainly think I can see the field just outside the woods now.

[tjohnson]

Let's take substance abuse as an example (our host knows something about this ). I grew up in an environment where alcohol flowed freely but it was mainly a very happy childhood. I did however, learn to abuse alcohol at a pretty young age and continued to use/abuse it most of my adult life. As you say, Sherry, I wasn't really aware I had a problem because what I was calling 'using' maybe was really 'abusing' but sometimes you don't realize this until after the fact. I have one brother who eventually joined AA but all 5 of us abused alcohol to different degrees. I look around and see young people drinking too much now and I know it's too much but how can I convince them? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Unfortunately us humans learn much better from example than we do from reading or listening and so ultimately we have to learn the hard way. In the mean time they are blissfully ignorant??

[Christopher]

Ignorance is Bliss...

Really depends on your definition of bliss. Take drugs or alcohol as discussed: substances reduce awareness, and within the new limited domain of awareness causes a hedonic positive experience. Hence, ignorance is bliss. I mean, haven't you ever gone to a crackhouse and seen how blissful everyone is?... no?... oh well, I guess you're seeing what the people feeling the bliss are unaware of.

[tjohnson]

Ignorance is Bliss...

Really depends on your definition of bliss. Take drugs or alcohol as discussed: substances reduce awareness, and within the new limited domain of awareness causes a hedonic positive experience. Hence, ignorance is bliss. I mean, haven't you ever gone to a crackhouse and seen how blissful everyone is?... no?... oh well, I guess you're seeing what the people feeling the bliss are unaware of.

No, I have never been to a crackhouse

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

This is a really curious discussion. I always thought the term "ignorance is bliss" was a quip.

It strikes me as like trying to object to the literal meaning of "thank goodness for small miracles" when you see a person with a bad habit acting in an uncharacteristically good or intelligent manner.

btw - I have been to crackhouses, both as an observer and as a consumer. There is no bliss among the noias. They are too busy checking the ground to see if a piece fell, or trying to hide their drug from the police who, at any moment, they know will come booming through the open space underneath the door. Or the window (so better move it again). Or the back door (so better move it again). Or through the friggen bathroom wall (so better move it again).

The only good part about that kind ignorance is that it ends and is replaced by craving. And craving ain't no good at all.

I am no longer a noia. Haven't been one for years. Thank goodness for small miracles.

And just to be a smart-ass, for those who have not experienced the hell of crack addiction, all I can say is "ignorance is bliss."

Michael

[Donovan A.]

And just to be a smart-ass, for those who have not experienced the hell of crack addiction, all I can say is "ignorance is bliss."

Just to be a smart-ass, would it be bliss to not know that crack addiction is hell, and thus continue to be a crack addict?

[Brant Gaede]

And just to be a smart-ass, for those who have not experienced the hell of crack addiction, all I can say is "ignorance is bliss."

Just to be a smart-ass, would it be bliss to not know that crack addiction is hell, and thus continue to be a crack addict?

I make cracks all the time. What's the problem? Jesus!

--Brant

[tjohnson]

I think the expression "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" is relevant here. When we are young we seem to be like putty and can be shaped into all kinds of things depending upon our environment, both physical and semantic. When we get older it seems it is harder to change the nervous system structure that's necessary "to learn" new forms of behavior. So when people become used to handling their affairs a certain way, based on how they perceive themselves and their environment, it become difficult to get them to change - even if what they are doing is not working. I believe this is often called 'denial' or 'evasion'.

[Donovan A.]

I think the expression "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" is relevant here. When we are young we seem to be like putty and can be shaped into all kinds of things depending upon our environment, both physical and semantic. When we get older it seems it is harder to change the nervous system structure that's necessary "to learn" new forms of behavior. So when people become used to handling their affairs a certain way, based on how they perceive themselves and their environment, it become difficult to get them to change - even if what they are doing is not working. I believe this is often called 'denial' or 'evasion'.

Excuses, excuses. LOL

[tjohnson]

I don't mean it to be excuses, only to explain why it is so hard. The human nervous is not simple as a computer which you can simply wipe the hard drive and start over. There are actual neurons that have to be reworked.

[John Tate]

I think its very good this guy has been serious. If only there were a time machine so I could send this to my teenage self.

Evasion truly is a problem. Usually people evade something because they feel it is for others to deal with. That notion can be true, in the sense that, if it weren't for bailouts ignorance of where AIG is going would be bliss. However if you owned shares in AIG and ignorantly did nothing expecting the Government to lend a helping hand, ignorance certainly is bliss at the expense of the taxpayer. That notion of ignorance bliss, the AIG shareholder, is a good example of evasions demanding sacrifices.