Alfonso Jones Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 (edited) Bill:This link is from USA Today:http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/edito...POE=click-referMy client and friend who teaches at Forest Hills High School in NYC one of the "best schools", is also a professional photographer and a licensed psychoanalyst has told me that this movement away from red is deeply rooted in the system.AdamAdam - I do thank you for posting the article. It is worth noting that the notion of "self esteem" being promoted by those who are the subject of the USA Today article has little or nothing in common with that pioneered by Nathaniel Branden. (Not that you said or implied it did, but I thought it good to mention, given the context of this board.)Bill P (Alfonso) Edited December 23, 2008 by Bill P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Bill:This link is from USA Today:http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/edito...POE=click-referMy client and friend who teaches at Forest Hills High School in NYC one of the "best schools", is also a professional photographer and a licensed psychoanalyst has told me that this movement away from red is deeply rooted in the system.AdamI'd still be interested in seeing evidence of how widespread/deeply rooted it is. I don't see strong evidence of such trends in graduate education (and though I've been in the professorial ranks since 1978 other than a 4 year sojourn working fulltime in industry, I've taught a total of only 2 undergraduate courses since 1983, so my experience in undergraduate or lower levels is not personal).Bill P (Alfonso)Bill:Agreed. This movement appears to be growing exponentially at the grade school, J.H.S and H.S. level, but mostly in the grade schools. I will inquire though as I am also interested in this trend. And Bill, I value your opinions and I was just joking about your endorsement of that book because I already found a friend of mine that I can acquire or borrow the book from. I can use all the help I can get on all math past geometry lol. Geometry sure helped my pool game though.Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfonso Jones Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Bill:This link is from USA Today:http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/edito...POE=click-referMy client and friend who teaches at Forest Hills High School in NYC one of the "best schools", is also a professional photographer and a licensed psychoanalyst has told me that this movement away from red is deeply rooted in the system.AdamI'd still be interested in seeing evidence of how widespread/deeply rooted it is. I don't see strong evidence of such trends in graduate education (and though I've been in the professorial ranks since 1978 other than a 4 year sojourn working fulltime in industry, I've taught a total of only 2 undergraduate courses since 1983, so my experience in undergraduate or lower levels is not personal).Bill P (Alfonso)Bill:Agreed. This movement appears to be growing exponentially at the grade school, J.H.S and H.S. level, but mostly in the grade schools. I will inquire though as I am also interested in this trend. And Bill, I value your opinions and I was just joking about your endorsement of that book because I already found a friend of mine that I can acquire or borrow the book from. I can use all the help I can get on all math past geometry lol. Geometry sure helped my pool game though.AdamAdam - Understood. My experience may be worth comment. Whenever I get less than very assertive in feedback, the students get tense, and want more feedback. I think they feel that they are not taken seriously if they just get a terse "good job" response. They want substantive feedback. My rule of thumb is "bleed red all over the page" in the feedback on serious assignments. (Some assignments are more of the "did you do the work" variety, of course, and require much less substantial feedback.)My sense is that the students, quite correctly, want lots of feedback. Are they often desirous of getting a "high grade" nonetheless --- well, yes. But they want the detailed feedback.A standard joke among faculty is that however much feedback you give - they want more. I have been known to jokingly tell students that I'm not going to write feedback of length greater than 20% of the length of the document.Bill P (Alfonso) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 Bill:I can see why you still love to teach and why your students "hear" your intellectual message.I am the same way, only I never took an education course and that is why I am a great teacher in my opinion. I got thrust into teaching when I was 20 and I had the good senses to just teach the way I thought a human mind would like to be approached.I tore up the department syllabus, told everyone to return the textbooks they were told to buy and pick up a copy of Aristotle's Rhetoric and we were good to go.Granted the Department was not happy with me, but I could care less - they needed me and I loved what I was doing so I would up teaching for 5 years.I gave out two A's in the five years. I also demanded to teach two sections at night, because an 8 hr "full" schedule was, frankly. a joke to me. so I also taught 8 hours at night. The two A's that I gave out were both to Magna Cum Laude graduates and one of them was my partner for 15 years - go figure.Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 Bill:I can see why you still love to teach and why your students "hear" your intellectual message.I am the same way, only I never took an education course and that is why I am a great teacher in my opinion. I got thrust into teaching when I was 20 and I had the good senses to just teach the way I thought a human mind would like to be approached.I tore up the department syllabus, told everyone to return the textbooks they were told to buy and pick up a copy of Aristotle's Rhetoric and we were good to go.Granted the Department was not happy with me, but I could care less - they needed me and I loved what I was doing so I would up teaching for 5 years.I gave out two A's in the five years. I also demanded to teach two sections at night, because an 8 hr "full" schedule was, frankly. a joke to me. so I also taught 8 hours at night. The two A's that I gave out were both to Magna Cum Laude graduates and one of them was my partner for 15 years - go figure.AdamTwo A's in five years? Unless most of your students were morons, I'd have to say you were a failure as a teacher.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 Ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfonso Jones Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 Bill:I can see why you still love to teach and why your students "hear" your intellectual message.I am the same way, only I never took an education course and that is why I am a great teacher in my opinion. I got thrust into teaching when I was 20 and I had the good senses to just teach the way I thought a human mind would like to be approached.I tore up the department syllabus, told everyone to return the textbooks they were told to buy and pick up a copy of Aristotle's Rhetoric and we were good to go.Granted the Department was not happy with me, but I could care less - they needed me and I loved what I was doing so I would up teaching for 5 years.I gave out two A's in the five years. I also demanded to teach two sections at night, because an 8 hr "full" schedule was, frankly. a joke to me. so I also taught 8 hours at night. The two A's that I gave out were both to Magna Cum Laude graduates and one of them was my partner for 15 years - go figure.AdamTwo A's in five years? Unless most of your students were morons, I'd have to say you were a failure as a teacher.--BrantBrant - How would that follow?Bill P (Alfonso) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfonso Jones Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 Bill:I can see why you still love to teach and why your students "hear" your intellectual message.I am the same way, only I never took an education course and that is why I am a great teacher in my opinion. I got thrust into teaching when I was 20 and I had the good senses to just teach the way I thought a human mind would like to be approached.I tore up the department syllabus, told everyone to return the textbooks they were told to buy and pick up a copy of Aristotle's Rhetoric and we were good to go.Granted the Department was not happy with me, but I could care less - they needed me and I loved what I was doing so I would up teaching for 5 years.I gave out two A's in the five years. I also demanded to teach two sections at night, because an 8 hr "full" schedule was, frankly. a joke to me. so I also taught 8 hours at night. The two A's that I gave out were both to Magna Cum Laude graduates and one of them was my partner for 15 years - go figure.AdamI'm not at all confident that education courses are helpful to someone wanting to be an educator (except to the extent that a "certification" is a requirement for being a teacher). Of course, for work as a professor, the typical requirements are more along the lines of having a PhD (which typically involves no coursework in the subject of education) and a track record (or potential, for beginning positions) of original research.Bill P (Alfonso) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 (edited) Two A's in five years? Unless most of your students were morons, I'd have to say you were a failure as a teacher.How would that follow?Grading students cuts two ways: how well they learned and how well they were taught. It may be his standards were unrealistic. That would also count against him. I don't believe in grading on a curve, but that's another matter.--Brant Edited December 24, 2008 by Brant Gaede Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 Bill:This link is from USA Today:http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/edito...POE=click-referMy client and friend who teaches at Forest Hills High School in NYC one of the "best schools", is also a professional photographer and a licensed psychoanalyst has told me that this movement away from red is deeply rooted in the system.AdamI'd still be interested in seeing evidence of how widespread/deeply rooted it is. I don't see strong evidence of such trends in graduate education (and though I've been in the professorial ranks since 1978 other than a 4 year sojourn working fulltime in industry, I've taught a total of only 2 undergraduate courses since 1983, so my experience in undergraduate or lower levels is not personal).Bill P (Alfonso)Bill:Agreed. This movement appears to be growing exponentially at the grade school, J.H.S and H.S. level, but mostly in the grade schools. I will inquire though as I am also interested in this trend. And Bill, I value your opinions and I was just joking about your endorsement of that book because I already found a friend of mine that I can acquire or borrow the book from. I can use all the help I can get on all math past geometry lol. Geometry sure helped my pool game though.AdamBill:It seems to be mostly massive in Australiahttp://www.buzzle.com/editorials/4-30-2005-69355.aspTrumbull Connecticut UShttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15...arking-red.htmlI assume this is in Englandhttp://www.mathreasoning.com/Middle_School...r_teaching.htmlThis one is from a math school's website with a philosophy out of Mc Lean Virginiahttp://www.windsorstar.com/Australian+teac...2778/story.htmlhttp://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMo...E4B811Q20081209AustraliaYours for a free societyAdam And MERRY CHRISTMAS to all where ever you are in the world and remember Peace on Earth may require a Marine standing a post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Grieb Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 Selene; Didn't Orwell say something about men sleeping peacefully in their beds because rough men watch over them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 Yep Chris:Great quote - I like this one also -"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." Seems like a correct statement on our times.http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote/george_orwell_quote_705f Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 Chris: There are 16 Rand quotes on this site:http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quotes_by/ayn+randAdam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 Adam,I wonder why people rarely source the work when they quote authors.I noticed this habit looking up quotes, and I noticed that often errors and incorrect attributions occur. I haven't checked the quotes on the page you linked, but I know they would carry much more authority if the works were cited. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 Michael:Totally agree. It amazes me that someone took the time to create this site which was pretty point and click easy, but no sourcing and of the Rand 16 there is at least one duplicate.I cannot understand it.I would love to know the exact source of the Orwell quote that Chris remembered and by Friday I will hopefully track it down.Thank you, once again, for maintaining this forum.Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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