Hello There

[Praedo]

Hello. Nice to meet you all.

Tons of information, too much looking back over what I read, but I'm here to share so enjoy it all I guess. I am a 20 years old male, enlisted in the US Navy. I consider myself from both Upstate NY (lived near Utica for 14 years) and New Hampshire (five years and my family is there). I am currently stationed in San Diego, but I am transferring to Norfolk, Virginia after Christmas stand down. I wanted to register because I have of late found myself reading the articles on this site more and more, and wanted to give thanks for the thought provoking discussions I have read. Also, I think that from time to time I will have to try having one myself, but I am not very well versed in Objectivism, being that my only real exposure has been OL, Atlas Shrugged, and The Fountainhead, so I'm afraid you may be having a discussion with someone who's personal philosophy can't be named being that it is simply what I have come to believe over the course of my life. I hope to learn and grow on this site and if there is some truth here I do not have, I hope to learn it for myself.

Honestly I could not tell you if I believe anything different then Objectivism, being that I have not ventured very far into philosophy of any kind. I know that what I hear I have agreed with. I do not enjoy lurking as a guest and thought it time to bring my opinion into play as well. From what I know of Objectivism, it could be I want to pay for the knowledge I am acquiring. I know that I don't like to get something for nothing, and vice versa. I do know that tonight I felt after reading on this site that I just wanted to leave a comment saying 'thank you for helping me learn', but I thought about it and figured that you were not doing it for me, but for yourself. All the same, I look forward to interacting with all of you.

How I found Objectivism is one of those strange coincidences. I was visiting my sister's house. I was 18-19(?) and I was looking for a good book to read one morning. I picked up Atlas Shrugged, and that's where it should have ended, because I only had fifteen minutes or so to wait, so I skipped to the end, after the speech, and read to a few pages to the end. I left myself cliffhanging for the ending, but had to leave so left it there, and went on with my life for a year without remembering it. In the Navy, I made a friend who introduced me to Terry Goodkind and the Sword of Truth series. I had never heard of Objectivism and didn't know he was considered one. I honestly recommend it as light reading (action/fantasy) for anyone who has need of light reading here. But after reading the whole series, I thought about the philosophy presented. I thought, and I thought, and found a whole new way to live. It may sound silly to others, finding great truth hidden in a little fantasy novel, but I honestly find the most important things in life when I'm not looking for them I suppose. I read it, and was talking to my sister on the phone one day, and I remembered Atlas Shrugged (well not the name, but a very memorable scene near the end and she supplied the name). I thought, thats a book worth reading. It seemed 'right'. No, I don't know why, but yes I pick which book I will find interesting on instinct much, and I was right. I was quite happy when I went to the bookstore and it was a thick spine of a read. I was even more happy when I found what was on the inside. I read it, thought about it a long time, it filled in some important details I had not thought of. I bought the Fountainhead a few days ago, read it and loved it (actually I had to steal hours to read it in my schedule which made it more enjoyable, a chapter here and there and then just hours sitting somewhere doing nothing to think about it). Near the end of Fountainhead (Page 672 of my Centennial Edition actually, the exact page preceding the trial by coincidence) I stopped. I thought, well there will be a trial, he will win... I just extrapolated what would happen. I got a lot right too, but I considered stopping there. I just wanted a hero in a book that would do what was right, and keep doing it even when the world said 'no'. But I suppose it had his whole life till then. Long winded story about someone reading a book or two, if you people aren't incredibly bored by that I'd have to officially say most people would find you weird (at least people I have met). Guess I'm weird, but wouldn't have it any other way. ;)

Till next time.

Note: Perhaps the spell-checker for posts might have the word Objectivist, Objectivism, or other terms like that added if at all possible. It is one of those little things that made me laugh a little when I saw it was coming up as an error on this website, although thanks for making my day a little brighter).

[Brant Gaede]

Hi, Michael, welcome to OL--and Objectivism. Would it be improper for you to tell us what you do in the navy? I was twenty when I enlisted in the army 44 years ago. You have a great privilege: learning in a few years about Objectivism what I, say, have learned in my lifetime. That's progress. Lesson One: Do what is right for you; the rest will naturally follow. No guarantee that that'd be good, but the odds will be with you. My own life is rife with irony; I couldn't do that in my life some decades ago, but it literally saved my life. We all need luck, courage and rationality.

--Brant

[Praedo]

Thanks Brant.

Sure I can say. I am a Sonar Technician. I operate and repair sonar and torpedo systems for surface ships. Well, I have been trained to do so, but I have been in school for over a year, so when I finally arrive on my ship in January it should be interesting seeing how much I remember and how much I still can learn.

I would love to hear how it saved your life. Real uselful life experience is one thing I feel dwarfed next to for every member of OL (one of the reasons I joined the Navy, to gain experiences).

[sbeaulieu]

Hi Michael,

Welcome to OL!! You and I have similar reading backgrounds. My intro to Objectivism was through Terry Goodkind's novels. The thing to remember about SoT is that it is pure Objectivism through and through, with fantasy being a stage to get the message across to young readers (young adults particularly). My in-laws just sent me some money with which I plan to buy Anthem, Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged. I might also suggest Nicholas Dykes' Old Nick's Guide to Happiness. It's more present day fiction and gives lots of examples/references for someone trying to learn more about Objectivism (and a super book at that!).

I'm serving in the AF right now (going on 16 years). Great to see another service member among our ranks...too few in my opinion.

Happy Thanksgiving, and thank you for your service ;)

~ Shane

[Brant Gaede]

Thanks Brant.

Sure I can say. I am a Sonar Technician. I operate and repair sonar and torpedo systems for surface ships. Well, I have been trained to do so, but I have been in school for over a year, so when I finally arrive on my ship in January it should be interesting seeing how much I remember and how much I still can learn.

I would love to hear how it saved your life. Real uselful life experience is one thing I feel dwarfed next to for every member of OL (one of the reasons I joined the Navy, to gain experiences).

How it saved my life is very private information I've shared with no one, but it was a fluke. As volitional beings we have to let the flukes take care of themselves. We have to make the best choices we rationally can in the context of when we make those and deal with all consequences as best we can as we can. That's the best path to good luck. But let me say one important thing about that: No choice--I'm not talking here about what to have for diner--is so small it can't destroy or damage your life, so treat the small ones as just as important as the big ones. In fact, such an attitude will make the big choices much easier and more likely to be right. The danger is the non-rational part of the brain taking over and making a short-sighted decision based more on emotion or incomplete thinking than sober thought. Avoiding that but not being a control freak then, in such context, you'll be free to let yourself go and enjoy the ride--sort of like on a roller coaster. It's kind of like taking a girl you like to a carnival, not a whore to bed. Not to say whores can't be useful. When I arrived in Vietnam in 1966 I engaged a whore in Nha Trang because I figured I was likely to be killed--true--but nothing happened between me and her. We had a good laugh. Yes, I couldn't get laid in a whore-house, but I still had to pay. That, btw, gave me a lot of incentive to get home alive. If I were Commander-In-Chief, no one in the military would be allowed to die for his country a virgin. All the soldiers and Marines must get laid first. Sailors and Airmen is up to them. Never mind the Coast Guard; they're too busy rescuing fishermen and saving us all from Mary Jane and dirty radiation bombs on sailboats going into New York Harbor (I hope).

--Brant

Edited November 27, 2008 by Brant Gaede

[sbeaulieu]

Brant - My dad told me some great stories about Vietnam...sort of like yours. After thousands of years of military morale, within the past 10-20 years, that's one they've done away with.

Although I agree whole-heartedly on their stance of zero tolerance with regard to human trafficking (the main reason military members cannot seek out prostitutes...along with the whole "professional image"), distractions from warzone dangers doesn't give us an opportunity to seek out one of Objectivism's virtues - sex.

I say "To hell with political correctness!" Enjoy life damn it

~ Shane

[Brant Gaede]

Brant - My dad told me some great stories about Vietnam...sort of like yours. After thousands of years of military morale, within the past 10-20 years, that's one they've done away with.

Although I agree whole-heartedly on their stance of zero tolerance with regard to human trafficking (the main reason military members cannot seek out prostitutes...along with the whole "professional image"), distractions from warzone dangers doesn't give us an opportunity to seek out one of Objectivism's virtues - sex.

I say "To hell with political correctness!" Enjoy life damn it

~ Shane

And don't smoke and drink. I hope they're paid enough money today to afford a wife and family. When I was in the army, for the first three years, all you could afford was a whore. Thank God I knew how to masturbate! I learned when I was 16. I should have figured it out three years earlier! Three lost years! Sob~at least 2000 ejaculations never ejaculated! And it took more years before I learned the difference between mere ejaculation and a bona fida orgasm!

--Brant

[sbeaulieu]

Brant - My dad told me some great stories about Vietnam...sort of like yours. After thousands of years of military morale, within the past 10-20 years, that's one they've done away with.

Although I agree whole-heartedly on their stance of zero tolerance with regard to human trafficking (the main reason military members cannot seek out prostitutes...along with the whole "professional image"), distractions from warzone dangers doesn't give us an opportunity to seek out one of Objectivism's virtues - sex.

I say "To hell with political correctness!" Enjoy life damn it

~ Shane

And don't smoke and drink. I hope they're paid enough money today to afford a wife and family. When I was in the army, for the first three years, all you could afford was a whore. Thank God I knew how to masturbate! I learned when I was 16. I should have figured it out three years earlier! Three lost years! Sob~at least 2000 ejaculations never ejaculated! And it took more years before I learned the difference between mere ejaculation and a bona fida orgasm!

--Brant

I think I'm scarred for life.

No...I am certain of it

Our pay these days is pretty decent. If I could learn how to invest, then I'd be pretty damned comfortable. I'm leaning on precious metals.

~ Shane

[Chris Grieb]

Michael; Welcome to OL.

I too served in the US Navy. I attended at least one NBI lecture in NYC in uniform. I believe is Basic Psychology by Nathaniel Branden.

It sounds like you all ready enjoy the site but have a good time.

[Ross Barlow]

Michael, nice to meet you. I think you will feel welcome here.

There will always be bickering and nit-picking, as in any philosophical group, but hang in there because there are some very nice folks here.

Where in upstate NY did you hang out? I am originally from NW Pennsylvania (Warren County), two hours south of Buffalo, but my favorite playground was the Adirondack Mountains of upstate NY.

You are in the Navy and you ship out in January? Have you ever been to sea before this? There are few things more beautiful than night on the vast open ocean with the moon lighting a greenish-silver sea. I did 17 days and nights crossing the Pacific when returning to “the World,” and I will never forget it.

Re: Terry Goodkind and Sword of Truth series. I have not read these books, but they sound good. What books in the series should one start with first?

-Ross Barlow.

[sbeaulieu]

Re: Terry Goodkind and Sword of Truth series. I have not read these books, but they sound good. What books in the series should one start with first?

Ross,

Books 1 - 8 are stand-alone titles, each dealing with present-day issues counter to Objectivist ideals. Although they follow in sequence, each building upon the last, the theme for each book is compartmentalized (so to speak). You could pick any book in those series and read cover to cover and gain insight to that specific theme.

Books 9 - 11 form the trilogy which ends the series (sadly) and should be read in sequence.

If you like chronological progression, Wizards First Rule would be the starting book. Of note, there is a short-story which precedes the series titled "Debt of Bones" that gives some great history into the background of First Wizard Zeddicus Zul Zorander

~ Shane

[Praedo]

Three years and 2000 ejaculations missed (at least)? Wow, you keep a busy schedule.

We get plenty of money, but don't let me stop you from investing more tax dollars into my salary, . With living expenses (food, shelter, insurance, ect) covered in every shape or form, a car and a cell phone are the only real sources of bills for me. I'm not a model saver, but I still can save over half my paycheck every month by giving myself a just a 20$ bill each day for random enjoyment and not using my cards. My Navy friends wonder how I have so much money. I go out with them and end up covering the whole tab time to time. Excellent advice, not to smoke or drink (for health reasons too). I had $2,500 of debt when I joined the Navy. I paid it off, bought a $1200 laptop, some designer clothes (if I can only bring 3 outfits with me on a trip to Europe, I'm gonna spring for the ones I really like), have a couple thousand in retirement plan so far, and have a thousand in bank account. I have taken trips to Mexico, gone out to clubs, parks, seen the sights, and still hang out in bars with friends. Everything is choice; and consequence.

I hiked up too many mountains in the Adirondacks to count or remember, but look back fondly on it. It was always hiking and camping for mini-vacations so I grew to love the outdoors. Something I have missed the most being in San Diego is the lack of weather, or real terrain. There are some nice parks, but everything else is an oasis in the desert that isn't there naturally and takes massive sprinkler systems to keep alive. When I first got here I called it 'Heaven' because it seemed so artificially perfect. The description still flies with me, but usually not in a good way.

Sword of Truth? The first two are amazing and action packed, and I recommend reading them in order, but it starts getting more into deep thinking after those two. The action suffers some, but it makes you think more. Faith of the Fallen would probably be the favorite on OL if everyone read the series, but I liked Naked Empire because it addressed issues important to me personally.

If you watch the Legend of the Seeker (Sword of Truth adaptation for TV) recently, don't judge by it. I hope you all won't judge SoT by Legend of the Seeker any more then people will judge Atlas Shrugged by the movie coming out that shares the name (although yes, I look forward to seeing it). Separate works.

I will have to look into Old Nick's Guide to Happiness in the bookstore next time I am there. One last thing...

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!

[Chris Grieb]

Michael; You are showing a lot of smrts in paying your bill and saving your money. On your final thoughs back at you.

[Brant Gaede]

I think I'm scarred for life.

No...I am certain of it

Our pay these days is pretty decent. If I could learn how to invest, then I'd be pretty damned comfortable. I'm leaning on precious metals.

~ Shane

Here's a suggestion: Take a thousand bucks and open an electronic cash account with Scottrade. See if you can have half your pay deposited each pay day. Buy the GLD--an EFT which tracks the price of gold--using the same amount of money each month regardless of the share price. That price may go up or down. Doesn't matter. If down you will buy more, if up less. Don't buy gold stocks because any one might go belly up. When your pay goes up then use more money for each buy.The price of gold is about $800/ounce right now. The downside risk/potential is $500. The upside is $30,000. Note that the latter is not adjusted for inflation. This will protect you from inflation which eventually will be pretty bad. You don't buy this to sell it. It's true savings. Because of your age it doesn't matter that this lacks diversification. It's simple and you can worry about other things than investing. If the price of gold goes above $1500/ounce, I'd suspend this. If it goes as low as $600 I'd put more money into it if I could. This type of ounce is 12 to pound. You're in a race to save as much as you can before you get married. Once you get married you'll be poorer than a Georgia dirt farmer in a drought.

--Brant

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Michael H,

I have been horribly busy these last few day, so I haven't commented much. But let me offer you a very warm welcome to OL.

Michael

[sbeaulieu]

I think I'm scarred for life.

No...I am certain of it

Our pay these days is pretty decent. If I could learn how to invest, then I'd be pretty damned comfortable. I'm leaning on precious metals.

~ Shane

Here's a suggestion: Take a thousand bucks and open an electronic cash account with Scottrade. See if you can have half your pay deposited each pay day. Buy the GLD--an EFT which tracks the price of gold--using the same amount of money each month regardless of the share price. That price may go up or down. Doesn't matter. If down you will buy more, if up less. Don't buy gold stocks because any one might go belly up. When your pay goes up then use more money for each buy.The price of gold is about $800/ounce right now. The downside risk/potential is $500. The upside is $30,000. Note that the latter is not adjusted for inflation. This will protect you from inflation which eventually will be pretty bad. You don't buy this to sell it. It's true savings. Because of your age it doesn't matter that this lacks diversification. It's simple and you can worry about other things than investing. If the price of gold goes above $1500/ounce, I'd suspend this. If it goes as low as $600 I'd put more money into it if I could. This type of ounce is 12 to pound. You're in a race to save as much as you can before you get married. Once you get married you'll be poorer than a Georgia dirt farmer in a drought.

--Brant

I'm married. LOL! But I'm very interested in gold for the very fact it's more savings oriented. Tax time would be my best opportunity to chunk down 1k without an issue. Is gold still the best metal to buy? I was reading that for bullion, Krugurands were the best to pick up outside of Gold Eagles. Thanks for the tips ;)

~ Shane

Edited November 28, 2008 by sbeaulieu

[Brant Gaede]

I think I'm scarred for life.

No...I am certain of it

Our pay these days is pretty decent. If I could learn how to invest, then I'd be pretty damned comfortable. I'm leaning on precious metals.

~ Shane

Here's a suggestion: Take a thousand bucks and open an electronic cash account with Scottrade. See if you can have half your pay deposited each pay day. Buy the GLD--an EFT which tracks the price of gold--using the same amount of money each month regardless of the share price. That price may go up or down. Doesn't matter. If down you will buy more, if up less. Don't buy gold stocks because any one might go belly up. When your pay goes up then use more money for each buy.The price of gold is about $800/ounce right now. The downside risk/potential is $500. The upside is $30,000. Note that the latter is not adjusted for inflation. This will protect you from inflation which eventually will be pretty bad. You don't buy this to sell it. It's true savings. Because of your age it doesn't matter that this lacks diversification. It's simple and you can worry about other things than investing. If the price of gold goes above $1500/ounce, I'd suspend this. If it goes as low as $600 I'd put more money into it if I could. This type of ounce is 12 to pound. You're in a race to save as much as you can before you get married. Once you get married you'll be poorer than a Georgia dirt farmer in a drought.

--Brant

I'm married. LOL! But I'm very interested in gold for the very fact it's more savings oriented. Tax time would be my best opportunity to chunk down 1k without an issue. Is gold still the best metal to buy? I was reading that for bullion, Krugurands were the best to pick up outside of Gold Eagles. Thanks for the tips ;)

~ Shane

Bullion gold coins are hard to find now and are being marked up $80 over the spot price of gold.

--Brant

edit: sorry Shane. I got you mixed up with Michael.

Edited November 28, 2008 by Brant Gaede