halfknott Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Hello everyone. My name is Michael, and I've been accustomed with Objectivism for a few years now, have read everything but The Journals, and the Art of Fiction and Non-fiction. I was(still am I guess) a member of OO.net for awhile but became dissatisfied with the amount of "objectivity" excercised there in regard to the issues concerning "dogmatism." I admit that the term is vague, but I don't think I need to get into here in this intro. I'm looking first and foremost for rational discussions about reality, and I see Objectivism as a means to that end and not an end in itself(unlike some people I have encountered). It looks like I might be able to find the right environment here in this forum.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william.scherk Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 It looks like I might be able to find the right environment here in this forum.You never know . . . after a spell at OO.net you may feel a wild and exultant freedom here. What kind of heck did you get into at OO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Michael,Welcome aboard.You will find OL to be a place of individuals who think for themselves, not any "we" spirit.Here is a good place to check premises and challenge yourself. I personally have no intention on saving the world. I do admit the idea of leaving it a little better, maybe a little more beautiful, because I passed through pleases me greatly. I perceive that many here share this spirit.In this respect, don't expect a body of premises to be enforced. It's all fair game. I also have a personal preference. I vastly prefer someone who is wrong and honestly doing his best thinking than a person being right because he is conforming to a group. I also have a strong distaste for those with a preacher spirit who like to be shepherds to their flocks. That includes all control-freaks. If a premise is strong, it stands up under logic and observation. That is more deadly to a bad premise than any enforced doctrine ever could be because that kind of thinking becomes permanent in a person's mind.Anyway, why don't you relax and have a look around? There is a lot of great stuff to read and a lot of great independent minds coming and going. Tempers flare sometimes, but most all of them are really nice people. If this is the spirit you are seeking in order to examine Objectivism and premises that I know you must be checking yourself, go on and make yourself right at home.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfonso Jones Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Michael - Welcome to Objectivist Living. You should find it a community which is, broadly speaking, very congenial. One might even say that you will find a benevolent sense of life here.Go ahead - post about something of interest. Make yourself at home.Bill P (Alfonso) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Grieb Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Michael; Welcome! You sound like a good fellow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfknott Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 Thank you very much for your warm welcome, I am glad to hear such nice things about the intellectual climate here.To answer a question about OO.net: I ran into a bunch of people who didn't want to examine some of their premises(Just as Michael has said) and consequently didn't want me to put forth my thoughts and arguments about certain things. The moderators encouraged this distaste for examination and when many a topic got heated, the thread was closed down and a blanket condemnation was made about all the participants of the thread. Not all of the people over there were like that, but enough to cause the overall experience of that forum to be tainted.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william.scherk Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 To answer a question about OO.net: I ran into a bunch of people who didn't want to examine some of their premises(Just as Michael has said) and consequently didn't want me to put forth my thoughts and arguments about certain things.There are only a few topics that are beyond the pale here, or which inspire a generalized revulsion and rejection. One is the kind of argument made here, about 'the Jews.' Another type of argument that leads to moderation and/or banning are variants on 'black helicopters' and alien visitations or the type of conspiracy theory put forward in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike11 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Another OO.net refugee. Well, you'll like this place, just be sure to follow the recommended two drink minimum before posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 William,Actually the topic about the Jews is not moderated. It just went the way those discussions always end up going: people making colorful and highly exaggerated claims (about collectives or individuals, it doesn't matter) from seeing injustice on one side only, then getting ticked at each other. That's an unending pattern and I have almost given up on expecting anything different. That particular discussion was also peppered with reason, distrust of government in general and a few other interesting issues, but, as is typical, those became minor values (very minor) when the rhetoric started flying. It's still open if anyone wishes to comment further.As to that other dude's thread, heh. It's still open. You just have to wade into the Garbage Pile if you want to keep discussing that one. I do admit that I draw the line on preaching outright bigotry and genocide. And I have closed down things when the level of name-calling has reached a level where spewing spite is the only perceived value.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike11 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 (edited) And I have closed down things when the level of name-calling has reached a level where spewing spite is the only perceived value.MichaelFor a forum with such a varied set of members as ours that sort of behavior is really, really, rare. OO.net is downright vicious, over here things tend to much, much more productive.Take for example the monthly Middle East threads, a lot of forums would self destruct over the issue, especially with posters like Wolf on one side and Barbara on the other. I dare say this forum is the best at keeping an open dialog on the issues going. Edited June 20, 2008 by Joel Mac Donald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfonso Jones Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 (edited) And I have closed down things when the level of name-calling has reached a level where spewing spite is the only perceived value.MichaelFor a forum with such a varied set of members as ours that sort of behavior is really, really, rare. OO.net is downright vicious, over here things tend to much, much more productive.Take for example the monthly Middle East threads, a lot of forums would self destruct over the issue, especially with posters like Wolf on one side and Barbara on the other. I dare say this forum is the best at keeping an open dialog on the issues going.Agreed. The worst I have experienced is occasionally getting the feeling that someone is stating that they disagree, and arguing with me, when they haven't carefully read what I said, and are in fact arguing on the same side that I am. But even then I haven't run into nasty tones, malice, . . . Any quick communication re PM has usually clarified the misunderstandings.It's a good place to be.Bill P (Alfonso) Edited June 20, 2008 by Bill P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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