Alleged message from Nathaniel Branden

[Robert Campbell]

Does anyone know what Lindsay Perigo is talking about here?

http://www.solopassion.com/node/893#comment-8440

...I learned something fascinating today that possibly explains why the TOCians have fled to safe territory such as the TOC frord board, where they're in no danger of being challenged by these awful ARIans running rampant on SOLO. Evidently in the not-too-distant past, Nathaniel & Barbara sent out a message to various people (separate from and prior to Smearer-in-Chief's exhortations to that effect on Objectivist Lying) asking them not to post here. One person who refused to comply was then told by Nathaniel not to speak to him again. Of course, Nathan is entirely within his rights, but observe the screechings from the Brandroid "tolerationists" when a Binswanger behaves in that way.

I haven't received any such message from Nathaniel. Maybe that just proves that I'm out of the loop...

Robert Campbell

[Roger Bissell]

Robert, I've never received such a request, demand, etc., from either of the Brandens, so I too must be out of the loop.

I do know of one person who was posting on other topics on So-Low Bashin' and actually incurred Nathan's displeasure for not speaking up appropriately (i.e., in Nathaniel's and Barbara's support), but that is almost the opposite problem from what you described.

"It's a strange, strange world we live in, Master Jack."

REB

[Paul Mawdsley]

There is no question I am out of the loop. Mine is just a sidelines observation.

Given the available information-- what I have come to understand about the character of Perigo, what I have come to understand about the character of NB, and what is being alleged, my response is to try to understand the causation behind it. Does it seem more likely that Perigo's statement is the result of NB doing what Perigo says or does it seem more likely that Perigo is suffering from a perspective shaped by paranoia and delusions of grandeur? My best understanding of the characters involved points to the latter. NB would have nothing to gain from entering this mess and he knows it. Participating would only raise the value of Perigo's paranoid perspective and substantiate Perigo's delusions of grandeur. Why would NB do that?

Paul

[Rich Engle]

Why doesn't somebody just ask Nathaniel? Somebody being not me, for once... #-o

[Paul Mawdsley]

I just wanted to make my point clear. I said:

Why would NB do that?

I can't imagine he would. Rich, Perigo's perspective is not worth asking NB about.

Paul

[jordanz]

Pure insanity. Linz, apparently, is in denial that he is the reason that many of us won't spend any more time on SoloPassion.

[Rich Engle]

I would've thought that if Linz had something like this in hand, he would have substantiated it. Surely we don't have to worry about exposing anyone, right? [-X

No, I'm not going to ask NB about this; it's just too...something.

About the closest thing I'd believe on this is the opposite- I have been thanked in the past for going to bat on a few arguments regarding NB and BB.

I'm waiting to hear what Barbara says about this latest.

[Ellen Stuttle]

I think that either Linz himself made the story up, trying to reawaken some (waning) interest in his dramatics. Or someone else made it up and told it to Linz.

The story is (a) out of character as something NB might have done (but then Linz isn't exactly a good judge of NB's character); and (B) of a piece with other misinformations being spread on SOLOP.

And if Linz really had anything, why didn't he post the message? Not as if posting private email is considered a no-no on his list (although not as if the full text of any of the private emails excerpted has been posted either -- instead people are expected to trust Diana, JV, Joe M. that they're fairly excerpting the "relevant" parts).

Ellen

___

[Robert Campbell]

Not all made up, apparently.

Here's what Lindsay Perigo now has to say about the matter.

Why he sat on the news for 10 days is unclear to me, but according to Mr. Perigo, Tibor Machan was asked by Nathaniel Branden not to post to SOLOP any more, and when Tibor continued to do so, he was "blackballed" by Nathaniel.

If the SOLOP interface is working properly (it does so only intermittently), you should be able to go to Mr. Perigo's comment titled "New Twist" at

http://www.solopassion.com/node/893#comment-8946

Assuming that the story is true, all I can say is:

(1) I have had no exchanges whatsoever with Nathaniel Branden about posting to SOLOP. My decision to post at SOLOP for a fairly brief time was mine, and mine alone--I planned in advance to keep my engagement limited.

(2) I have no interest in further posting to SOLOP while it is dominated by Mr. Perigo's claque, Mr. Valliant's claque, and Ms. Hsieh's claque, because I do not believe that any of these folks are primarily motivated by an interest in ideas, Randian or otherwise, or in genuine dialogue concerning those ideas. I have made my opinion publicly and (sometimes) privately known. But I would not refuse to speak to anyone because that person was posting on SOLOP.

I really hope NB and TM can sort this one out.

Robert Campbell

[Ellen Stuttle]

Why [Linz] sat on the news for 10 days is unclear to me, but according to Mr. Perigo, Tibor Machan was asked by Nathaniel Branden not to post to SOLOP any more, and when Tibor continued to do so, he was "blackballed" by Nathaniel.

I "heard tell" the day after my previous post that possibly the person being referred to was Tibor, who had been asked by NB -- some while ago, not recently in regard to the "Dialectical Dishonesty" exchanges -- why he, Tibor, posted on SOLO, to which Tibor said something to the effect that he posts everywhere. What the "blackballing" means I don't understand. Did NB say, "Well, then don't send me your essays" (Tibor has a sizable list of persons to whom he sends his reflections)? Or what? As far as I know, Tibor has never posted on NB's list, to be "blackballed" from (he certainly hasn't posted there in the maybe two years I've somewhat followed, occasionally participated on, NB's list). So I'm puzzled as to the specifics "blackballed" might mean.

Ellen

___

[Roger Bissell]

I think I can clear up at least some of the mystery surrounding the NB, TM, SOLO posting, and "blackballing" issue. And I will try not to overstep my bounds in doing so.

1. Linz most certainly is distorting the truth -- what little of it he apparently knows. (What else is new?) I am in frequent contact with both Nathaniel and Barbara, and neither of them has ever insisted, demanded, or even asked that I refrain from posting on SOLO. Various of their other friends affirm this as well.

2. Regarding the "blackballing," I happen to know first-hand that it merely involves a (hopefully temporary) social rift between them, not any kind of power play or list-banning or some other sort of ARI-esque, SOLO-esque, Noodle-esque nonsense. (I am communicating the details of this privately to Robert and Ellen, for obvious reasons.)

REB

[Charles R. Anderson]

Linz should worry more about whether people with enough intelligence and wisdom to value TOC can find sufficient value for the investment of their time at SOLO Passion.

[Barbara Branden]

To all of you sadly out-of-the-loopers who have not been blackballed, threatened, menaced, intimidated, denounced, scolded, or found horse's heads in your beds as a result of demands by Nathaniel and by me:

Roger is exactly correct when he writes:

"I think I can clear up at least some of the mystery surrounding the NB, TM, SOLO posting, and "blackballing" issue. And I will try not to overstep my bounds in doing so.

"1. Linz most certainly is distorting the truth -- what little of it he apparently knows. (What else is new?) I am in frequent contact with both Nathaniel and Barbara, and neither of them has ever insisted, demanded, or even asked that I refrain from posting on SOLO. Various of their other friends affirm this as well.

"2. Regarding the "blackballing," I happen to know first-hand that it merely involves a (hopefully temporary) social rift between them, not any kind of power play or list-banning or some other sort of ARI-esque, SOLO-esque, Noodle-esque nonsense. (I am communicating the details of this privately to Robert and Ellen, for obvious reasons.)"

To further clarify, it was I, not Nathaniel, who originally wrote to Tibor saying I wondered if he was following Solo sufficiently to be aware of the attacks on Nathaniel and me -- and that if he was, I was disappointed that he, whom I considered a friend, did not say anything in our defense. Tibor answered that he did not want to be involved in personal squabbles and that he had a long-standing policy to that effect. I disagreed with him, but certainly did not threaten to "blackball" him (from what?). Period. End of discussion, except that Tibor and I mutually agreed that we looked forward to seeing each other at the TOC Seminar this summer.

Barbara

[Barbara Branden]

One further, and final, point of clarification. Far from telling people that they should not post wherever they pleased, I have several times written to thank people who have defended me on Solo. (Although I now think it is a futile endeavor, since their voices will not be heard.)

Barbara

[Ellen Stuttle]

To further clarify, it was I [barbara], not Nathaniel, who originally wrote to Tibor saying I wondered if he was following Solo sufficiently to be aware of the attacks on Nathaniel and me [...].

I wondered if it was actually Barbara, not NB, who raised the subject with Tibor, since I was surprised at the thought that Nathaniel would have been "following Solo sufficiently" to have much idea of what was happening there. I've never known him to pay much of any attention to elist goings-on on any elist -- including his own. ;-)

Barbara added in a second note:

(Although I now think it is a futile endeavor, since their voices will not be heard.)

I agree, Barbara. I think that all that happens if one tries to counter the misinformation presented there is that one provides further opportunity for more of the same.

Ellen

___

[Robert Campbell]

Ellen said of posting on SOLOPassion:

I think that all that happens if one tries to counter the misinformation presented there is that one provides further opportunity for more of the same.

I think my experience and, more recently, Phil's both amply document this.

Nor do I see that Chris Cathcart (despite his more positive views of Ms. Hsieh and the Ayn Rand Institute) is doing a whole lot better.

The SOLOPers are beginning to feel deprived of "enemies of Objectivism" to gang up on. One sign is Jim Valliant's recent appearance on RoR (which his ally Mr. Perigo still calls the "TOC fRoRd board" and claims not to read).

See

http://rebirthofreason.com/Forum/PollDiscu...0112_1.shtml#31

Robert Campbell

[Ciro]

BB:found horse's heads in your beds

Barbara, for God sake, didn't I tell you never to mention horse's heads.

[Barbara Branden]

Oops -- Sorry, Ciro!

Barbara

[gary williams]

Horse Head Marsala

4 boneless horse head halves without skin (good luck with that!)

1/2 cup all-purpose flour

salt to taste

pepper to taste

1 tablespoons butter or margarine

3 tablespoons olive oil

8 ounces fresh mushrooms, sliced (1/2 to 1 cup sliced)

1/2 cup Marsala wine

¼ teaspoon crushed rosemary

Optional some demi-glaze

1 cup horse head stock

PREPARATION:

Pound horse heads to 1/4" thickness between 2 sheets of plastic wrap. (good luck with that!) Combine flour, salt, pepper and mix well. Heat oil and butter in a heavy non-stick skillet over medium high heat. Dredge the horse heads in seasoned flour mixture.

Cook the horse heads until lightly browned on first side (about 2 minutes). Turn the horse heads and add mushrooms around the horse head pieces. Cook for about 2 minutes more until lightly browned. Add the mushrooms stir for a minute then add the marsala and cook for a minute or two or until the marsala evaporates completely to almost dry, add the horse head stock,( 1 tea spoon home made demi glaze optional) cover, and simmer until the horse head is not pink inside , usually after 3 to 5 minutes.

At the last minute or two of the cooking time add the rosemary, and season to taste. If you want to serve it with pasta double the volume of the liquids.

Do not add vanilla!

Damn, Ciro is good!!!

gw

[gary williams]

One further, and final, point of clarification. Far from telling people that they should not post wherever they pleased, I have several times written to thank people who have defended me on Solo. (Although I now think it is a futile endeavor, since their voices will not be heard.)  

Barbara

Oh, yes they are! Oh, yes they are!

And, so is yours!

gw

[gary williams]

Holy Crap! I just got a Dollar Sign!!!

gw

[gary williams]

Sorry to ramble on so, but I find this thread facinating!

BB said -

"To all of you sadly out-of-the-loopers who have not been blackballed, threatened, menaced, intimidated, denounced, scolded, or found horse's heads in your beds as a result of demands by Nathaniel and by me"

I reply -

"out-of-the-loopers" - This is the loop!

"blackballed" - from what? SOLOPasse'? Isn't that a lot like being blackballed from an intellectual gulag?

"threatened" - With banishment? Welcome Home! With force? Let me know, I will deal with it.

"menaced" - When called "SADDAMITE! Respond with......laughter!

"intimidated" - No! Never!

"denounced' - Who would have ever guessed that The Grand Inquisition Part II would come from New Zealand? Must be all those sheep!

"scolded" - Pfffffffffftttt! By what? A small, wee willie'd, brokeback dreamin', kiwi smooching, bad breathed, okra loving, subjectivistic, Pol Pot-ien, gravy hating, grass mowing, car driving, rugby is not football loving, anti Dentite.............see, I can come up with bad names too! It does not take a Great Objectivist Leader to make up bad names! Any idiot with to much time on his hands can.......wait a minute........!

"or found horse's heads in your beds as a result of demands by Nathaniel and by me" -

Wait just a damn minute! It was you and that, that, that....guy, all along!

Barbara Branden!......You!

You!.....are.....the objective one!!!!

Sorry, all those "Dallas" reruns have given me a taste of to much melodrama!

Kinda like SOLO!

gw

p.s. - If you do leave a horses head, please autograph it! I just love you!

[Rich Engle]

Gary,

I'm suprised you didn't work Mario Lanza into that. I suppose we all have standards... :-k

[Charles R. Anderson]

Gary,

A small, wee willie'd, brokeback dreamin'

The rest of your play was fair, but this is not. Perhaps this was the hypothetical idiot talking and not you, but it still does not belong here, in my unhumble opinion. These are not relevant issues and this play on the prejudices of many, which have no doubt had a field day already with Linz, is hitting below the belt.

You are intelligent enough that I think it is reasonable to expect you to rise above this prejudice so common in Texas.

[gary williams]

Hi Chuck!

Nice of you to pick me out of a line up!

First,

Funny, when Michael Stuart Kelly was refered to as -

Brandens' poster-boy  

Barbara Branden's chief low-level supporter  

Slime  

Toxic slug  

Slippery  

Incomparably odious  

Dysfunctional  

New age  

Anti-conceptual acid fountainhead  

One hell of a disappointment  

Limp-dick  

Piece of shit  

Immoral scum who lie in practically every post  

Pompous ass of the first order  

Cockroach  

Crazed Cockroach Kelly  

Michael Stuart Kelly-Stuart-Stuart (Dizzy's most inept inspiration)  

Dishonest  

Vicious man with an evil agenda  

Laughable  

Stupid ideas  

Massive evasion  

Evader (used in simple mode, without the "massive")  

Pathological evader  

Mentally ill  

Fascist  

Christian  

Looter  

Scout master of Objectivism  

Perfectly reliable law of nature (I kinda like that one, too)  

Stridently-anal  

Snivelling self-indulgence  

Enslavement mentality  

Cane toad  

Idiot  

Uses altruism as his tool to create slaves  

Incapable of holding a coherent train of thought  

Morally unfastidious  

One of the most odious people I've ever encountered  

I doubt he is a sincere man  

So low a life-form  

Greatest licker and sucker of all  

Great Pretender himself  

Talking ape  

Male PMS  

A bit like Hemingway as a boxer  

For the Ojectivist Living site (in my homage, of course):  

Cockroach Corner  

Branden Community Church  

Nasty folks (malicious motive)  

Communist Living  

Intellectual/cultural ghetto for the Brandens  

Any port in a storm  

Branden Temple  

ObjectivistLying  

The anti-Rand site for Brandroids, back-stabbers & buttlickers

You said -

(sound of crickets chirping.)

Nothing.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm? :-k

Second,

Now, you can continue to insinuate that I and everyone in the Great State of Texas are nothing but a bunch of hillbilly homophobes' hell bent on string'n us up "a swishy pants queer boy!" (None of those in Maryland, I bet.)

But, you would be wrong.

As usual.

Gentle sir, you are coming painfully close to being a hypocrite. There is a place on the internet that nutures the hypocritical. That place is called SOLO.

I started to say something, here, about the proprietor, over there, wearing GO-GO Boots.......

......You know......

.......Because he is always booting out the vertibrates and saying "GO! GO! You filthy Branden loving SADDAMITE!!!"

But, I won't.

You might take it as homophobic and blame Texas!

Other than that, it has been good to hear from you again Chuck!

gw

P.S. - If you haven't heard already, I am a "Cock-Eyed, Bristle haired Hyena!" And, I am loving every minute of it!