Hello from Abroad!

[whoisdagny]

Hi everyone,

I am an admirer of Ayn Rand's works, and am happy to have landed upon the OL forum. Thought I'd give a brief introduction here.

I am from New York City, and work at a management consulting firm. Several years ago, I picked up a copy of the Fountainhead at a friend's recommendation, and finding that I couldn't put it down, I took off several days off of work to finish the entire book within a few days. At the time, I was in my early 20's and doing a lot of 'soul' searching; I found the Fountainhead inspirational in its exaltation of integrity and individual passion. Since then, I've become a fan and also read Anthem and Atlas Shrugged.

Although I find it easy to apply Objectivism to most areas of my personal life, I often find it difficult to publicly discuss Objectivist ideas with others without quickly being written off as 'cruel' by others. My frustration is less in getting others' approval but more in not being able to share and talk about these ideals that I feel passionate about.

Several months ago I decided to take a pay-cut to try a nonprofit consulting project in a developing country, out of curiosity and to get a different perspective of business environments in the emerging markets. Almost immediately, family/friends/colleagues showered me with praise for being so selfless as to sacrifice part of my salary to help the poor. This bothered me that everyone saw my decision as a big personal sacrifice, instead of what it is in reality - a chance for me to gain a different perspective, develop new skills, and quite frankly, receive marketable experience. I would not have 'sacrificed' my salary unless I was getting in return something of equal value. Despite my attempt to explain this to friends, they wrote it off as a twisted form of modesty.

I'm wondering if others have had similar difficulties in being able to be vocal about Objectivism in their lives?

Nice to meet you!

Jen.

PS - I'm now writing from Bangladesh, having gone through several monsoon floods, daily power outages, and a violent political curfew (several months ago). Definitely a once in a lifetime learning experience.

[Selene]

Hi everyone,

I am an admirer of Ayn Rand's works, and am happy to have landed upon the OL forum. Thought I'd give a brief introduction here.

I am from New York City, and work at a management consulting firm. Several years ago, I picked up a copy of the Fountainhead at a friend's recommendation, and finding that I couldn't put it down, I took off several days off of work to finish the entire book within a few days. At the time, I was in my early 20's and doing a lot of 'soul' searching; I found the Fountainhead inspirational in its exaltation of integrity and individual passion. Since then, I've become a fan and also read Anthem and Atlas Shrugged.

Although I find it easy to apply Objectivism to most areas of my personal life, I often find it difficult to publicly discuss Objectivist ideas with others without quickly being written off as 'cruel' by others. My frustration is less in getting others' approval but more in not being able to share and talk about these ideals that I feel passionate about.

Several months ago I decided to take a pay-cut to try a nonprofit consulting project in a developing country, out of curiosity and to get a different perspective of business environments in the emerging markets. Almost immediately, family/friends/colleagues showered me with praise for being so selfless as to sacrifice part of my salary to help the poor. This bothered me that everyone saw my decision as a big personal sacrifice, instead of what it is in reality - a chance for me to gain a different perspective, develop new skills, and quite frankly, receive marketable experience. I would not have 'sacrificed' my salary unless I was getting in return something of equal value. Despite my attempt to explain this to friends, they wrote it off as a twisted form of modesty.

I'm wondering if others have had similar difficulties in being able to be vocal about Objectivism in their lives?

Nice to meet you!

Jen.

PS - I'm now writing from Bangladesh, having gone through several monsoon floods, daily power outages, and a violent political curfew (several months ago). Definitely a once in a lifetime learning experience.

Welcome Jen, keep dry and keep thinking rationally and selfishly. I read Atlas Shrugged when I was about 13ish in 1959. You will find that it is difficult to have an objective discussion of ideas with a hardcore altruist. They, as a group, rarely think individually. There is a collective mindset that sneers, condescends and will punish individual thought socially and professionally.

However, what is infuriating to these philosophical fascists is that they cannot stop the spread of solid ideas especially when it is spread by books from one individual to another.

I have always marketed Rand's ideas by asking a question or having Atlas on a table or in my attache case. Socratic questioning is an excellent way to create cognitive dissonance in the mind of an altruist. Leading the questioning to a personal example of what their assumptive base would mean in a real life situation for them over something that they value is an excellent way to shake them from the "party" line that they spout by rote.

Again, welcome. As a fellow NY City person, it is good to have you aboard.

Adam

[Rodney]

Hi!

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Jen,

Let me offer you a very warm welcome to OL.

As one who lived 32 years outside the USA (in Brazil), I can only say that you are getting a perspective on the world you would never get here. I know it gets lonely out there for an Objectivist, especially in a poor mostly Muslim country, so I am glad you discovered this site. (There are others on the Internet, too, if you end up not liking the premise-checking slant of OL.)

You have a unique opportunity to get the philosophy right. You will not be in the middle of a hi-tech city full of technological conveniences talking about the evils of James Taggart and the looters of capitalism. You are interacting every day with people who face reality on a much more primitive level than those here and you have to show them how reason makes their lives better in concrete terms. There is no arguing with competing theories other than primitive traditions. The standard for being taken seriously will be stark reality—what works. Very few will refute you if they think you are wrong. Most will simply tune out and go back to what they were doing to survive. So you have to show them some benefits in their lives just to get their attention.

This means that you have to step outside the imaginary worlds Rand created and the contexts that exist here in the USA and use your creativity to show how Obectivist principles can apply to the conditions of Bangladesh. From my experience, I found no guidance in Objectivist literature for this. After I stopped judging the entire country of Brazil as a snake-pit of second-handers, I began to see how many really good people there were down there and I began to find ways to appeal to that good side. The upside is that I learned much from that good side, too.

So I suggest you do not be afraid to make mistakes. Use your own mind always, even if it appears to contradict what you read. If you do anything wrong, you will discover why in practice. But if you do it right, you will plant a seed that will grow and strongly impact that culture and you might even achieve fame and fortune in the meantime.

If you have any questions at all, or wish to discuss anything, please feel free to present it. I would love to hear about what and why you are facing and doing. In addition to my particular perspective, there are a lot of highly intelligent creative people on OL and I am sure you will get much food for thought.

Incidentally, one OL member Ross Barlow lives in Thailand and another, Bill Parr (Alfonso), lives in mainland China. I am sure they would be glad to share with you some of their experiences, especially about cultural adaptation and how to keep your Objectivist flame burning in an environment far removed from what the books provide.

Michael

[whoisdagny]

Welcome Jen, keep dry and keep thinking rationally and selfishly. I read Atlas Shrugged when I was about 13ish in 1959. You will find that it is difficult to have an objective discussion of ideas with a hardcore altruist. They, as a group, rarely think individually. There is a collective mindset that sneers, condescends and will punish individual thought socially and professionally.

However, what is infuriating to these philosophical fascists is that they cannot stop the spread of solid ideas especially when it is spread by books from one individual to another.

I have always marketed Rand's ideas by asking a question or having Atlas on a table or in my attache case. Socratic questioning is an excellent way to create cognitive dissonance in the mind of an altruist. Leading the questioning to a personal example of what their assumptive base would mean in a real life situation for them over something that they value is an excellent way to shake them from the "party" line that they spout by rote.

Again, welcome. As a fellow NY City person, it is good to have you aboard.

Adam

Adam - always great to hear from a fellow New Yorker! Especially after being away for 6 months. Of the few books I brought along, my highlighted, underlined, and dog-eared copy of Atlas Shrugged was a must. You make a great point about the channeling of Objectivism through individuals. I've found that in discussions with groups, many feel almost uncomfortable with truly exploring Objectivism, and immediately default to what 'should' be the 'correct' answer/opinion. It's the whole 'group-think' mentality, that need to seek safety in the collective. I find it easier to have more intelligent, authentic conversations when discussing one-on-one.

Nice to meet you!

[whoisdagny]

Michael - OL has been a breath of fresh air for me, thanks. I'm glad to see that you've had the ability to test and solidify your viewpoints in Brazil. Your point about seeing contradictions with what I read is a valid one. As a relative 'beginner,' I've been careful to not take in all of Ayn Rand's principles without testing and questioning them first in my own surroundings. I think that taking a firm stance on Objectivist principles without having a thorough and personal understanding of them is potentially dangerous. Like you said, being in Bangladesh is perhaps the best way to step out into unfamiliar surroundings to fully evaluate my take on Objectivism.

Although after being in BD for 6 months, I'd say I'm still in the beginning phases of 'making peace' with questioning and keeping my own values against existing conditions here. In fact, I've underestimated how hard this can be, from several specific areas:

• the culture of 'giving to the poor' - both because it is a Muslim culture, and because it has been hit with enormous natural disasters every 2-3 years, the country's act of giving to those in need is everywhere. When walking in the overpopulated streets of Dhaka, the beggars, the physically handicapped, and the poor are everywhere (the rich don't walk in the streets). Given this, it is not only expected that beggars will come up to me for money, I am also expected to give to them. I don't see desperate expressions of need, but only looks of bewilderment when I refuse. And while all around me, almost everyone else in the streets is either strolling aimlessly, or lounging around on sidewalks. I can't get over my internal frustration with this scene, and unlike a temporary business trip, I am living here and encounter this as a daily routine.
  
• role of women - it has been particularly frustrating taking on a leadership role here while in a male-dominated work environment. While I do get some leeway as a foreigner, the gender difference is still very much prevalent. I'd say 99% of women that I do see in the offices are secretaries. They walk into rooms after men, and speak after men finish. While I recognize that it is a cultural difference, it has been hard understanding/balancing what I "should" do against my own values. What makes it even more difficult is that the women themselves do not feel oppressed, and probably think me a bit queer
  
• altruism as a standard - Altruism is not a topic that is questioned or talked about here. It is the way of life. Given this, things such as profit-driven businesses that don't actively fight poverty, or capitalistic ideas that don't have the poor's immediate interests in mind are denounced. Differing viewpoints, if any, are not publicly discussed. This may be one of the most depressing aspects for me - that people don't even find it a worthwhile topic to talk about.
  

Of course, I had expected all of this before coming; my only surprise is in how hard it has been for me to personally adjust to these differences. I've spent my early childhood years in rural China, and also love backpacking through developing countries. But I've come to realize that it is in actually staying in an environment for an extended amount of time that your values are brought to the forefront to be tested.

This is definitely a worthwhile experience for me, especially in the long run, I believe.

In the meantime, I look forward to the refreshing articles and viewpoints here at OL!

- Jen

Edited October 28, 2007 by jen

[Alfonso Jones]

PS - I'm now writing from Bangladesh, having gone through several monsoon floods, daily power outages, and a violent political curfew (several months ago). Definitely a once in a lifetime learning experience.

Greetings from Shanghai, China. Enjoy yourself at Objectivist Living. A place where benevolence seems to actually be practiced.

Alfonso

[Chris Grieb]

Michael - OL has been a breath of fresh air for me, thanks. I'm glad to see that you've had the ability to test and solidify your viewpoints in Brazil. Your point about seeing contradictions with what I read is a valid one. As a relative 'beginner,' I've been careful to not take in all of Ayn Rand's principles without testing and questioning them first in my own surroundings. I think that taking a firm stance on Objectivist principles without having a thorough and personal understanding of them is potentially dangerous. Like you said, being in Bangladesh is perhaps the best way to step out into unfamiliar surroundings to fully evaluate my take on Objectivism.

Although after being in BD for 6 months, I'd say I'm still in the beginning phases of 'making peace' with questioning and keeping my own values against existing conditions here. In fact, I've underestimated how hard this can be, from several specific areas:

• the culture of 'giving to the poor' - both because it is a Muslim culture, and because it has been hit with enormous natural disasters every 2-3 years, the country's act of giving to those in need is everywhere. When walking in the overpopulated streets of Dhaka, the beggars, the physically handicapped, and the poor are everywhere (the rich don't walk in the streets). Given this, it is not only expected that beggars will come up to me for money, I am also expected to give to them. I don't see desperate expressions of need, but only looks of bewilderment when I refuse. And while all around me, almost everyone else in the streets is either strolling aimlessly, or lounging around on sidewalks. I can't get over my internal frustration with this scene, and unlike a temporary business trip, I am living here and encounter this as a daily routine.
  
• role of women - it has been particularly frustrating taking on a leadership role here while in a male-dominated work environment. While I do get some leeway as a foreigner, the gender difference is still very much prevalent. I'd say 99% of women that I do see in the offices are secretaries. They walk into rooms after men, and speak after men finish. While I recognize that it is a cultural difference, it has been hard understanding/balancing what I "should" do against my own values. What makes it even more difficult is that the women themselves do not feel oppressed, and probably think me a bit queer
  
• altruism as a standard - Altruism is not a topic that is questioned or talked about here. It is the way of life. Given this, things such as profit-driven businesses that don't actively fight poverty, or capitalistic ideas that don't have the poor's immediate interests in mind are denounced. Differing viewpoints, if any, are not publicly discussed. This may be one of the most depressing aspects for me - that people don't even find it a worthwhile topic to talk about.
  

Of course, I had expected all of this before coming; my only surprise is in how hard it has been for me to personally adjust to these differences. I've spent my early childhood years in rural China, and also love backpacking through developing countries. But I've come to realize that it is in actually staying in an environment for an extended amount of time that your values are brought to the forefront to be tested.

This is definitely a worthwhile experience for me, especially in the long run, I believe.

In the meantime, I look forward to the refreshing articles and viewpoints here at OL!

- Jen

Jen;

I have already welcomed you.

Your observances are very well thought out. I think you are going to be a great addition to OL.

[Alfonso Jones]

Michael - OL has been a breath of fresh air for me, thanks. I'm glad to see that you've had the ability to test and solidify your viewpoints in Brazil. Your point about seeing contradictions with what I read is a valid one. As a relative 'beginner,' I've been careful to not take in all of Ayn Rand's principles without testing and questioning them first in my own surroundings. I think that taking a firm stance on Objectivist principles without having a thorough and personal understanding of them is potentially dangerous. Like you said, being in Bangladesh is perhaps the best way to step out into unfamiliar surroundings to fully evaluate my take on Objectivism.

Although after being in BD for 6 months, I'd say I'm still in the beginning phases of 'making peace' with questioning and keeping my own values against existing conditions here. In fact, I've underestimated how hard this can be, from several specific areas:

• the culture of 'giving to the poor' - both because it is a Muslim culture, and because it has been hit with enormous natural disasters every 2-3 years, the country's act of giving to those in need is everywhere. When walking in the overpopulated streets of Dhaka, the beggars, the physically handicapped, and the poor are everywhere (the rich don't walk in the streets). Given this, it is not only expected that beggars will come up to me for money, I am also expected to give to them. I don't see desperate expressions of need, but only looks of bewilderment when I refuse. And while all around me, almost everyone else in the streets is either strolling aimlessly, or lounging around on sidewalks. I can't get over my internal frustration with this scene, and unlike a temporary business trip, I am living here and encounter this as a daily routine.
  
• role of women - it has been particularly frustrating taking on a leadership role here while in a male-dominated work environment. While I do get some leeway as a foreigner, the gender difference is still very much prevalent. I'd say 99% of women that I do see in the offices are secretaries. They walk into rooms after men, and speak after men finish. While I recognize that it is a cultural difference, it has been hard understanding/balancing what I "should" do against my own values. What makes it even more difficult is that the women themselves do not feel oppressed, and probably think me a bit queer
  
• altruism as a standard - Altruism is not a topic that is questioned or talked about here. It is the way of life. Given this, things such as profit-driven businesses that don't actively fight poverty, or capitalistic ideas that don't have the poor's immediate interests in mind are denounced. Differing viewpoints, if any, are not publicly discussed. This may be one of the most depressing aspects for me - that people don't even find it a worthwhile topic to talk about.
  

Of course, I had expected all of this before coming; my only surprise is in how hard it has been for me to personally adjust to these differences. I've spent my early childhood years in rural China, and also love backpacking through developing countries. But I've come to realize that it is in actually staying in an environment for an extended amount of time that your values are brought to the forefront to be tested.

This is definitely a worthwhile experience for me, especially in the long run, I believe.

In the meantime, I look forward to the refreshing articles and viewpoints here at OL!

- Jen

Experiences such as this enable us to appreciate what we have in the USA, however flawed, mixed and incomplete.

Alfonso

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I just saw this on the news:

Bangladesh cyclone toll tops 500

Jen,

I hope this did not harm you.

Michael

[Chris Grieb]

Jen; I too hope you are alright.

[galtgulch]

Adam - always great to hear from a fellow New Yorker! Especially after being away for 6 months. Of the few books I brought along, my highlighted, underlined, and dog-eared copy of Atlas Shrugged was a must. You make a great point about the channeling of Objectivism through individuals. I've found that in discussions with groups, many feel almost uncomfortable with truly exploring Objectivism, and immediately default to what 'should' be the 'correct' answer/opinion. It's the whole 'group-think' mentality, that need to seek safety in the collective. I find it easier to have more intelligent, authentic conversations when discussing one-on-one.

Nice to meet you!

Hi Jen, Just thought I would jump in to welcome you to OL also. I have enjoyed reading your posts and it is truly a delight to find yet another human being to whom ideas matter. I get the impression that you were not raised to believe a religious dogma which you had to overcome to come to agree with the tenets of Objectivism. Growing up in New York, and other cosmopolitan places, has that effect. I grew up in the Flatbush section of Brooklyn in the forties and fifties when it was the center of the Universe. I recall realizing as a young boy that if I had been born to the neighbors next store, upstairs or across the street that I would have been taught to believe a very different view of things, e.g. Catholicism, Protestantism, Orthodox Judaism, and there were different churches and temples everywhere. Fortunately I was just encouraged to pay attention in public school and was not indoctrinated at all as a youngster. Instead I was turned loose in a couple of public libraries and had the good fortune to be excited by reading Isaac Asimov, George Gaylord Simpson, Sir James Jeans, George Gamow, Zoltan Harzani, Theodore Sturgeon, Arthur Clarke and a bunch of others.

When I first heard an Objectivist say, "No man's need constitutes an obligation on the part of another man to fulfill that need!" I was and had been in total agreement all my life. I am sure other places would also engender finding a rational path to understanding the world, but New York worked for me. I do wonder just where within the city you grew up and which schools you went to.

I also wonder if you have loved ones who live back home. At this point others here will be groaning because they know me as the originator of the thread having to do with the Ojo, a video telephone which operates over broadband cable. They know where I am heading with this. I own a Shadow Ojo which is the less expensive model being devoted to video telephony. For ten bucks a month you can make video calls anywhere in the world where you have broadband cable or DSL access. Check it out at www.ojophone.com. You might find it to be valuable personally to be able to see your friends or loved ones in real time with audio synchrony.

I discovered Objectivism while at King's County Hospital doing a residency in 1968. Its a short story. Then Atlas led to The Virtue of Selfishness, Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal and The Objectivist Newsletter. I subscribed to the Objectivist just before the proverbial "split" between Branden and Rand and continued to read both, as well as the authors whose books were reviewed in TONewsletter, e.g. Ludwig von Mises, Henry Hazlitt, Brand Blanshard, F.Bastiat, F. A. Hayek etc.

I spent thirteen months in South Korea in the military so had a taste of a foreign country from the perspective of an Army base surrounded by rice paddies a few hours out of a major city. How much longer will you plan to stay in BD and what are you going to do when you return to the USA?

Welcome to Objectivist Living.

galt

Edited November 17, 2007 by galtgulch

[galtgulch]

Whoops! When I wrote the above I was half asleep and was not aware that a cyclone packing 150 mph winds had caused devastation in Bangladesh. I share the concern of others here who eagerly await word from you that you are all right.

galt

Here is an excerpt from a BBC article which gives me reason to believe that you must have been aware of the coming storm in order to take shelter.

<"Around 10 million people living in Bangladesh's coastal areas were given more than 48 hours warning of the impending storm.

Like many others in this isolated rural community adjoining the Bay of Bengal, Mohammed fled to one of hundreds of cyclone shelters along the southern Bangladeshi coast.

He did so after the authorities launched a huge operation to warn people of the dangers of the storm through megaphone announcements and newspaper announcements. ">

Edited November 17, 2007 by galtgulch

[Selene]

Whoops! When I wrote the above I was half asleep and was not aware that a cyclone packing 150 mph winds had caused devastation in Bangladesh. I share the concern of others here who eagerly await word from you that you are all right.

galt

Here is an excerpt from a BBC article which gives me reason to believe that you must have been aware of the coming storm in order to take shelter.

<"Around 10 million people living in Bangladesh's coastal areas were given more than 48 hours warning of the impending storm.

Like many others in this isolated rural community adjoining the Bay of Bengal, Mohammed fled to one of hundreds of cyclone shelters along the southern Bangladeshi coast.

He did so after the authorities launched a huge operation to warn people of the dangers of the storm through megaphone announcements and newspaper announcements. ">

Yes, Jen. If you are OK please let us know. I had the same thoughts today Gulch man.

[BaalChatzaf]

I'm wondering if others have had similar difficulties in being able to be vocal about Objectivism in their lives?

Nice to meet you!

Jen.

PS - I'm now writing from Bangladesh, having gone through several monsoon floods, daily power outages, and a violent political curfew (several months ago). Definitely a once in a lifetime learning experience.

I have had many people misconstrue some of the things I do. I do volunteer work at Reading for the Blind and Dyslexic of New Jersey. It involves some rather detailed procedures for making recordings of books for blind or dyslexic end users. It requires an attention to detail, a great deal of mental focus and a dedication to quality to do the job right. I do math and physics books. Try conveying formulas and graphs to unsighted people. It ain't easy.

People think I do this because I am being generous and unselfish. G-d forbid! My motives are profoundly selfish. I do it for the following reasons:

1. It is challenging work. It takes concentration, focus and effort to do it right.

2. It is useful. To me because of the challenge. To the end users for the obvious reasons.

3. Someday I might need this service myself (I have early stage cataracts). I would consider it ill grace to expect a benefit without some kind of trade of value. Think of it as the trader principle in action.

May G-D strike me dead and turn me into a puddle of smoking grease if I ever do anything altruistic.

So in a way I have encountered similar difficulties to what you have encountered. Don't let it bother you. We live in a rather screwed up culture where if you do the right thing for a good reason you will almost certainly be misunderstood.

Keep on doing the right things for the right reason.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Edited November 20, 2007 by BaalChatzaf

[whoisdagny]

All - I am SAFE AND SOUND!

Thanks for everyone's concern! Luckily, I was in Thailand at the time (took some time off to get my Scuba diving certification!), and was just about to fly back to Bangladesh when notification came, canceling all the flights. I camped out in Bangkok for a few days until I was sure of local conditions. I've returned, and the city of Dhaka (where I'm based) hasn't been hit hard aside from power outages.

However, conditions are really, really bad along the coast. BBC has continued to up the death-count, but locally, everyone's saying that the numbers will probably get to 15000, because 1) more and more bodies are being washed ashore daily, 2) rescue teams have yet to hit many of the smaller coastal locations, and 3) many of the poor here are homeless and live on a day-to-day basis; the speed of aid being sent cannot offset the affect of this storm on depleted food supplies to remote areas.

Unfortunately, Bangladesh is just a horribly located country. No doubt that much of its poverty is brought on by the natural disasters that occur every few years, claiming 10,000-100,000 lives every time.

galtgulch - In some ways, I think New York is one of the best places to grow up in. You get a perspective of *everything*, all centralized in one area. I always think that it's easy to point out a New Yorker after talking to him for a while. In terms of my BD experience, I'm planning to be here until mid December (coming up shortly!) - armed with new perspectives from my experience here, I thought I'd know exactly what I want to do after I return. Embarrassingly, it has had the opposite effect, and I foresee spending a bit of time reflecting on what the past half-year means to me, and how I want to redirect my life accordingly. Despite sounding quite clueless, I do have at least a laundry list of things I will never ever take for granted again after this experience.

Ba'al Chatzaf - the frustration of your situation IS similar to mine. Although they are offering a compliment by commenting on your selflessness, it disappoints me that they see 'serving others' as something that is admirable. We should be motivated to do our work because we are enjoying it and reaping personal rewards, not because others are benefiting from our efforts. Those who do work for others at a cost to their own happiness should not be praised. Cheers to finding personal meaning to your job!

- Jen

[Chris Grieb]

Jen; What a good time to make a trip.

I have been noticing the growing death toll with each report.

I am wondering if some of the problems in Bangela Das can be associated with Islam. An Islamic attitude of God Wills ie: Anything that happens is God's Will. People might not do anything to prepare for natural disasters because it would interfering with God's Will.

I don't think Westerns or other Asians have this attitude but I have found with followers of Islam.

Edited November 20, 2007 by Chris Grieb

[BaalChatzaf]

Jen; What a good time to make a trip.

I have been noticing the growing death toll with each report.

I am wondering if some of the problems in Bangela Das can be associated with Islam. An Islamic attitude of God Wills ie: Anything that happens is God's Will. People might not do anything to prepare for natural disasters because it would interfering with God's Will.

I don't think Westerns or other Asians have this attitude but I have found with followers of Islam.

As the Faithful say: Insha'allah -- If G-D wills it.

Even so the Egyptians, who are Muslim built the High Aswan dam.

Living only five feet above mean sea level, as they do in Bangela Desh, does not help.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Jen,

Thank you for the wonderful news—on two counts. Count one:

All - I am SAFE AND SOUND!

Count two:

... I foresee spending a bit of time reflecting on what the past half-year means to me, and how I want to redirect my life accordingly. Despite sounding quite clueless, I do have at least a laundry list of things I will never ever take for granted again after this experience.

I sense the birth of great wisdom. If the best in Objectivism is ever going to advance in the world, it will need wise people who think for themselves. And even without considering Objectivism's course, there can never be too much wisdom. It is good to see a new light flickering.

Michael

[galtgulch]

All - I am SAFE AND SOUND!

We should be motivated to do our work because we are enjoying it and reaping personal rewards, not because others are benefiting from our efforts.

- Jen

Jen, It is a relief to hear from you that you are safe and well. I am sure that although many of us were assuming that the chances were good that you were safe we still were worried and feel very good now that we have your confirmation of your good fortune.

Regarding the whole issue of how you feel when you are doing something to help someone in some way I agree with you that it can be quite satisfying.

In a way, those of us who have learned the true meaning of selfishness might even feel a tinge of anxiety or thrill as we are doing something for someone. I think the feeling springs from our awareness that in a way we are very conscious of the fact that others might be motivated out of altruism and are unaware of how a truly selfish motivation can manifest itself in a human being and they probably never experience the joy it can bring to oneself.

I am very happy to hear from you that you are well and weren't in the path of the natural devastation which caused so much loss of life.

galt