Good-bye, and thanks.

[Victor Pross]

Good-bye. It’s time to move on and return to reality. The cyber world is becoming too addictive and there are personal projects that I am to complete and they are calling me. They are long neglected. (It’s been a month since I painted another icon for inclusion in Icons and Idols).

Since I have been invited to this cyber home, it has been a blast: The Biddle and Perigo caricatures, for example, caused quite a stir and I’m sure many here were entertained. (Art can be entertaining). And for the other art work that has been contributed, no charge. (It wasn't altruism;) As for discussions, they have been very enlightening as well as occasionally caustic, and that is, I suppose, standard for any site were all the players are safely out of distance, and were the impulse to bring personal baggage tends to be pushed to the foreground. I learned a lot. (I was a big topic starter, and craved convo on topics of interest).

There have been those who did not take a shine to me, and again, that is typical of the cyber world: not everybody gets along. Still, I have made friends here, and I’m thankful to Michael and Kat for their patronage and the store. I was especially pleased to have rendered a benevolent caricature for Chris and hope to meet him one day when I go states side.

By the way, if anybody has been following the Love in Bloom thread, the dramatic love affair (it has been dramatic) between Angie and me, the resolution on a long drawn out story will be revealed. (We are meeting May 23 at Niagara Falls).

Anyway, I will hang out on the sides here and there to observe. But active participation is taking too much time. I wish you all well. :turned:

Edited April 22, 2007 by Victor Pross

[Chris Grieb]

Victor; I will miss you and thanks for the picture and the kind words. I hope you will stay a member. Good Luck and Good Premises!

Edited April 22, 2007 by Chris Grieb

[Judith]

What? You're quitting? Just like that?

Damn. I'll miss seeing you around. Good luck and don't be a stranger.

Judith

[Mikee]

Victor,

I finally did understand what you were saying about the definition of Art. And I like the caricature you did of Chris, though how it works is a mystery to me. You are an artist, and a good one. I understand about time constraints, so many things to do, so little time....

Best wishes for health, happiness and prosperity.

Mike Erickson

[Ellen Stuttle]

What? You're quitting? Just like that?

No, he isn't quitting just like that. He's quitting because he's been caught again in his plagiarizing habits. See the Madame Bovary thread if you want to know what's going on re Victor's good-bye.

Ellen

___

[Victor Pross]

What? You're quitting? Just like that?

No, he isn't quitting just like that. He's quitting because he's been caught again in his plagiarizing habits. See the Madame Bovary thread if you want to know what's going on re Victor's good-bye.

Ellen

___

No, Ellen, really, Angie and I have talked about this---waaaaay before. I didn’t have to make a big announcement; I could have just faded away. Simply stop posting. But I want to say good-bye to friends proper like, thank you very much. It's time to move on. The Bovery thread, I agree, I should have said: "Looking at sites, the background of the story is...." to generate conversation. It was not an essay. I wanted conversation on the topic; the background to the story has been covered a million, billion times; time saver to present the background and get into the convo. So, instead of 'saving time' by posting at all, I'm really saving time now and moving on. Ok? Buy yeah, My mistake. Kill me. So yes, I agree---should have included the simple 'looking at sites' as an opener. Really, Ellen, leave the speculations---Angie is foldiing tent, too. There is a life to lead outside of the cyber world, and it is simply sucking up time. I wish you well.

Edited April 22, 2007 by Victor Pross

[BAMF]

Well, who the fuck am I to hang out with here now?!

I'll miss you, you bastards! *sniffles* :bye:

This board just lost two great ones.

P.S. You better fucking paint me a good Eminem and Manson, k? Also, go buy Manson's new album "Eat Me, Drink Me" (June 2).

Edited April 22, 2007 by Kori

[Victor Pross]

Well, who the fuck am I to hang out with here now?!

I'll miss you, you bastards! *sniffles* :bye:

This board just lost two great ones.

P.S. You better fucking paint me a good Eminem and Manson, k? Also, go buy Manson's new album "Eat Me, Drink Me" (June 2).

Kori,

Oh, tootsie! I’m gonna miss you! I’ll miss interacting on this forum and the fun bantering. In my own way, I developed a little crush on ya. Shhhh, don’t tell Angie!

But you know what? I’m gonna share some final thoughts, and it all relates to why I must move on. Are you ready? I have no problem saying it out in the open. Here we go:

Last night, I read a post called “Altruism against Freedom” on RoR. On that thread, you witness MSK trying desperately to be understood regarding a single point he wished to communicate, and all the while facing an acerbic invective such as I have never seen before in the real world. (Jason, the Warrior, even calls him “a piece of shit”). Yet MSK is still in there trying to voice his point hoping somebody will listen. But more abuse comes his way. Reading it, I felt sick.

You see, it shows me how addictive the cyber world can be: you end up wasting time on things and people who just don’t count. So the RoR thread was one more confirmation—among tons—of what I have come to intensely dislike about cyber forms in general: the rancor and hostility, the callous remarks calculated to hurt and humiliate—things that we would not think of doing if we were seated before the person at a coffee shop. I have fallen into the same trap. I have behaved in ways that leave me looking in the mirror wondering who I am! No good!

I can most certainly confirm that OL is not even in the same league where this abuse is standard, (due to the good work of MSK and Kat) But people are people…and it will exist even here (in lesser degree). Why is that? Because, as I said, people are at a safe distance, you are not looking into the eyes of the person you are interacting with and consideration and civilized discourse becomes way too relaxed. Kori, I’m tired. I’m just tired and need to focus on my life, Angie, and the projects that mean a lot to me. Yes, one of those projects is Icons and Idols—and you will love the killer Manson pix I have in mind.

So, yeah, my spirit is getting a little crushed and battered in this crazy cyber world. Then again, you come across wonderful people. Yep, kid, I mean YOU. (I also mean a few others here, so I am not forgetting that). However, I am seeing a side to people I don’t like, and I wish to preserve my caricaturing curmudgeon like ways at the level it’s already at. I don’t need to make it worse. But still, I do crave conversation on matters of interest, crave it! So, in private message, I will send you my email. Will you stay in contact with me? An occasional chat is all I can commit myself to. One day, I would it if Angie and I could meet you (and Chris). I'm a face-to-face guy. I'm old school. I'm not, in the end, an internet dude.

Okay, Tootsie, take care, and talk to you later. x0x0 :turned:

Victor

Edited April 22, 2007 by Victor Pross

[BAMF]

Oh, tootsie! I’m gonna miss you! I’ll miss interacting on this forum and the fun bantering. In my own way, I developed a little crush on ya. Shhhh, don’t tell Angie!

But you know what? I’m gonna share some final thoughts, and it all relates to why I must move on. Are you ready? I have no problem saying it out in the open. Here we go:

Last night, I read a post called “Altruism against Freedom” thread on RoR. On that thread, you witness MSK trying desperately to be understood regarding a single point he wished to communicate, and all the while facing an acerbic invective such as I have never seen before in the real world. (Jason, the Warrior, even calls him “a piece of shit”). Yet MSK is still in there trying to voice to his point hoping somebody will listen. But more abuse comes his way. Reading it, I felt sick.

You see, it shows me how addictive the cyber world can be: you end up wasting time on things and people who just don’t count. So the RoR thread was one more confirmation—among tons—of what I have come to intensely dislike about cyber forms in general: the rancor and hostility, the callous remarks calculated to hurt and humiliate—things that we would not think of doing if we were seated before the person at a coffee shop. I have fallen into the same trap. I have behaved in ways that leave me looking in the mirror wondering who I am! No good!

I can most certainly confirm that OL is not even in the same league where this abuse is standard, (due to the good work of MSK and Kat) But people are people…and it will exist even here (in lesser degree). Why is that? Because, as I said, people are at a safe distance, you are not looking into the eyes of the person you are interacting with and consideration and civilized discourse becomes way too relaxed. Kori, I’m tired. I’m just tired and need to focus on my life, Angie, and the projects that mean a lot to me. Yes, one of those projects is Icons and Idols—and you will love the killer Manson pix I have in mind.

So, yeah, my spirit is getting a little crushed and battered in this crazy cyber world. Then again, you come across wonderful people. Yep, kid, I mean YOU. (I also mean a few others here, so I am not forgetting that). However, I am seeing a side to people I don’t like, and I wish to preserve my caricaturing curmudgeon like ways at the level it’s already at. I don’t need to make it worse. But still, I do crave conversation on matters of interest, crave it! So, in private message, I will send you my email. Will you stay in contact with me? An occasional chat is all I can commit myself to. One day, I would it if Angie and I could meet you (and Chris). I'm a face-to-face guy. I'm old school. I'm not, in the end, an internet dude.

Okay, Tootsie, take care, and talk to you later. x0x0 :turned:

Victor

*blushes* Thanks, Victor. I've loved interacting with you and Ange as well, as if it weren't obvious. I was gonna post in that damn Elvis thread too, but you're leaving. *pouts* I know what you mean though and I understand why you have to leave. Sometimes it really is just too tiring. But this place is a beacon of light in the dark, dingy cyberworld...and in the world in general. As you tire of the cyberworld, I tire of the real world. LOL. I will most definitely stay in contact with you, homie, and I hope to meet you guys one day. When we do, you must give me a high five.

Take care yourself, Victor.

P.S. I've got ants in my pants waiting for this Manson caricature. I do hope you've done your research on him though.

[Kat]

I'll miss you, you bastards! *sniffles* :bye:

My sentiments too.... We wish you well. Get back on track with your book and creating those wonderful caricatures and reaching your goals, both personal and professional. I know it is sometimes necessary to take a step back in order maintain balance. I wish you and Angie much joy as a couple. We'll miss having you two around. Take care.

Hugs,

Kat

[Victor Pross]

I'll miss you, you bastards! *sniffles* :bye:

My sentiments too.... We wish you well. Get back on track with your book and creating those wonderful caricatures and reaching your goals, both personal and professional. I know it is sometimes necessary to take a step back in order maintain balance. I wish you and Angie much joy as a couple. We'll miss having you two around. Take care.

Hugs,

Kat

I would especially be ill-mannered if I didn’t acknowledge OL hosts, Kat and Michael for they have been very good to me. There is a life and buzz here that is uncommon to other Objectivists sites—which are either “dull as dish water” (copyright expression; belong to my grandfather) or are a guck hole of malice and acrimony. I mean, of course, SLOP. If there is any interest at all—at all—Angie and I would be pleased to let OL know how our meeting goes…and even provide a link to show a few picks of gorgeous Niagara Falls. Let us know. :turned:

[Dodger]

Victor;

You have one of the most valuable points ever presented in a topic; the addictiveness of the cyber world.

Oh I feel a topic coming on soon

[BAMF]

LOL, Dodge. You got here at the wrong time, bro, just as Victor and Ange are leavin'!

[Dodger]

LOL, Dodge. You got here at the wrong time, bro, just as Victor and Ange are leavin'!

You can be sure that I am keeping in touch with Victor outside of this forum.

[BAMF]

Damn, Victor's an OL Playa. LOL.

[CNA]

Kori,

It's okay. No need to be sad. I just now saw this thread and honestly not really surprised by Victor's decision. We've talked about this before; ie, the time it can suck up, the addictive aspects of it as well as others. Girlie Girl, you have my email and my phone number just as I have yours so it's not really good-bye. ;) I got your email a while ago but just haven't had a lot of time for talking. You're not the only one that is being neglected so to speak. Rich, Charles, and a few others have also sent emails and I just haven't had time to respond. Rich not too long ago asked me to call him and never did and I probably should have.

What Victor makes reference to and the BS that Mike was subjected to as well as so many other people that I have witnessed this happening to is such a huge turn off. It's extremely childish. And I personally find it rather hilarious in a repulsive sort of way. They're condemning someone for not upholding the ideas of O'ism (which I am skeptical of, especially when individuals refuse to listen and to hear where the person is coming from) or what have you but in reality they are guilty of much worse but in different areas of the philosophy such as social metaphysics, rationalizations, contradictions to name just a few. It makes them look like complete fools and I can't help but laugh my ass off. They truly think they are above whoever they are condemning but they themselves are guilty of much worse and it flies in the face of the philosophy but they don't see it, don't realize it. Give me someone that went through the same things and came to the same convictions of O'ism based on what they went through, their experiences, and not knowing who Rand was over someone that has read Rand out the ass and have adopted her ideas any day. One of the reasons I like this site so much better than all the other sites out there including the ortho sites is that there are more independent thinkers here and not as many orthos and I value this highly. I made reference to the very same thing Victor talks about, not in detail such as he did but more along the lines of complete revulsion in what I was witnessing and it was on the generosity thread a few days ago which is here It truly is absolutely hilarious.

But at any rate, Girlie Girl, it's not really good-bye and you know that. ;) I still have my account and Mike didn't delete it which I am thankful he did not so I can still post if I choose. When me and Victor finally meet, either he will or I will post some pictures and the link to Flikr where they will be uploaded.

Dodger,

It's very nice to meet you and welcome to OL. Yes, I agree, the addictive qualities of the internet and message boards is a very good topic to start. There are members here that are familiar with addiction either due to their own circumstances or their family members and/or their own battles as well as having family members with addictions at the same time so not only do they have personal experience with it due to their own addiction but in addition have family members with addictions as well and much insight can be offered. As for OL, Mike and Kat have done an exemplary job so I know you will most certainly enjoy your time here.

Ange

Edited April 22, 2007 by CNA

[Rodney]

Best of luck to you both.

You are right about the Internet. But as we see, wonderful things can happen also.

[PalePower]

Wot!?!?

That's a shame, Victor! I understand that this stuff can be addicting and very, VERY time consuming -- one of the reasons I don't post all that frequently or get involved in every conversation or randomly drop out of some that I start myself. I looooove getting into good conversations with interesting people, but I've got piano to practice and five freaking AP courses!!! So I understand. And I'm old-school like you, too -- face to face is the best.

Anyway, good luck with all that you'll be doing, and be sure to pop in now and again -- don't completely abandon us! It was awesome meeting you -- it makes me happy just to know you people exist.

Angie, it's a shame I didn't really get to talk to you all that much. I wish you and Victor the best!

Much love!

~Elizabeth

[BAMF]

Kori,

It's okay. No need to be sad. I just now saw this thread and honestly not really surprised by Victor's decision. We've talked about this before; ie, the time it can suck up, the addictive aspects of it as well as others. Girlie Girl, you have my email and my phone number just as I have yours so it's not really good-bye. ;) I got your email a while ago but just haven't had a lot of time for talking. You're not the only one that is being neglected so to speak. Rich, Charles, and a few others have also sent emails and I just haven't had time to respond. Rich not too long ago asked me to call him and never did and I probably should have.

But at any rate, Girlie Girl, it's not really good-bye and you know that. ;) I still have my account and Mike didn't delete it which I am thankful he did not so I can still post if I choose. When me and Victor finally meet, either he will or I will post some pictures and the link to Flikr where they will be uploaded.

Hey, I know it's not g'bye forever, but it's still sad to see y'all go. 'Twill not be the same, I say! *adjusts monacle* *sigh* Don't worry about the e-mail, homie, I understand you're busy. Hell, I've been so busy as well. I just got done with my last major school project, so I'm pretty much home free. Graduation here I come. BWAHAHA! *sigh of relief*

[Michael Russell]

Victor, you'll be missed; I enjoy reading your posts and you are an excellent artist. Best of luck to you and Angie.

Mick

[Judith]

No, he isn't quitting just like that. He's quitting because he's been caught again in his plagiarizing habits. See the Madame Bovary thread if you want to know what's going on re Victor's good-bye.

I'd seen it before I read Victor's good-bye. It never occurred to me that the two might be connected; our Victor is made of sterner stuff!

Last night, I read a post called “Altruism against Freedom” on RoR. On that thread, you witness MSK trying desperately to be understood regarding a single point he wished to communicate, and all the while facing an acerbic invective such as I have never seen before in the real world. (Jason, the Warrior, even calls him “a piece of shit”). Yet MSK is still in there trying to voice his point hoping somebody will listen. But more abuse comes his way. Reading it, I felt sick.

You see, it shows me how addictive the cyber world can be: you end up wasting time on things and people who just don’t count. So the RoR thread was one more confirmation—among tons—of what I have come to intensely dislike about cyber forms in general: the rancor and hostility, the callous remarks calculated to hurt and humiliate—things that we would not think of doing if we were seated before the person at a coffee shop. I have fallen into the same trap. I have behaved in ways that leave me looking in the mirror wondering who I am! No good!

I can most certainly confirm that OL is not even in the same league where this abuse is standard, (due to the good work of MSK and Kat) But people are people…and it will exist even here (in lesser degree). Why is that? Because, as I said, people are at a safe distance, you are not looking into the eyes of the person you are interacting with and consideration and civilized discourse becomes way too relaxed. Kori, I’m tired. I’m just tired and need to focus on my life, Angie, and the projects that mean a lot to me. Yes, one of those projects is Icons and Idols—and you will love the killer Manson pix I have in mind.

So, yeah, my spirit is getting a little crushed and battered in this crazy cyber world. Then again, you come across wonderful people.

So stay away from the toxic sites and check in here every now and then -- and forget about contributing anything "heavy"; we just want to know you and Angie still around and doing well.

If there is any interest at all—at all—Angie and I would be pleased to let OL know how our meeting goes…and even provide a link to show a few picks of gorgeous Niagara Falls. Let us know. :turned:

Jesus Christ, Victor -- after all we've heard about it, you'd bloody well better!

Judith

[Brant Gaede]

Drancing Around the OL Site:

Mumbo jumbo, mumbo jumbo: Eureka, Victor! It's all right for you to stick around!!! All you've got to do is use those quotes!!!! Just don't post so much! Cut back 10%!

Mumbo jumbo, mumbo jumbo! (I'm a witch doc at heart!)

--Brant

[Robert Jones]

Kori,

It's okay. No need to be sad. I just now saw this thread and honestly not really surprised by Victor's decision. We've talked about this before; ie, the time it can suck up, the addictive aspects of it as well as others. Girlie Girl, you have my email and my phone number just as I have yours so it's not really good-bye. ;) I got your email a while ago but just haven't had a lot of time for talking. You're not the only one that is being neglected so to speak. Rich, Charles, and a few others have also sent emails and I just haven't had time to respond. Rich not too long ago asked me to call him and never did and I probably should have.

But at any rate, Girlie Girl, it's not really good-bye and you know that. ;) I still have my account and Mike didn't delete it which I am thankful he did not so I can still post if I choose. When me and Victor finally meet, either he will or I will post some pictures and the link to Flikr where they will be uploaded.

Hey, I know it's not g'bye forever, but it's still sad to see y'all go. 'Twill not be the same, I say! *adjusts monacle* *sigh* Don't worry about the e-mail, homie, I understand you're busy. Hell, I've been so busy as well. I just got done with my last major school project, so I'm pretty much home free. Graduation here I come. BWAHAHA! *sigh of relief*

Adjusts monacle???

[Robert Jones]

Goodbye, Victor. Just as I was getting to know ye. Oh, well. You're right. Socialising by internet can suck you in an soon replace real socialising. Find a bowling alley, a bar, throw some darts and down some pints of Guiness for me, eh? By the way, it is so sweet you and Angie are going to meet at Niagara Falls. Here's a tip from me, having been there: You two see it from the Canadian side, much better view than the one on the New York side. Ontario is like my second home. I'm going to get a cabin one of these days near Thunder Bay and play Grizzly Adams.

Don't fret the "plagiarism" thing. I can understand the urge to just cut-and-paste to start discussions, and -- my gosh almighty -- this is just a discussion forum, not a peer-reviewed journal. I don't remember who outed you on that but I think given the cirumstances, it would have been more tactful to just have sent you a warning e-mail in private. But, keep in mind you are among Objectivists, so you always run the risk of the "gotcha" game. I mean, really, who goes around ripping off Wikipedia writers to gain notoriety and riches? You'd have done better changing your name to "Gustav"! ;)

Well, til later, goodbye. I'll look you up in your neck of the woods and share a Labatt's with you.

Keep up the cartoons! They bring a smile to me face.

Robert

P.S. : I ned to know before you go: IS that monkey on Ronnie Reagan's back Bonzo or Jerry Ford? R

Edited April 23, 2007 by Robert Jones

[Victor Pross]

Goodbye, Victor. Just as I was getting to know ye. Oh, well. You're right. Socialising by internet can suck you in an soon replace real socialising. Find a bowling alley, a bar, throw some darts and down some pints of Guiness for me, eh? By the way, it is so sweet you and Angie are going to meet at Niagara Falls. Here's a tip from me, having been there: You two see it from the Canadian side, much better view than the one on the New York side. Ontario is like my second home. I'm going to get a cabin one of these days near Thunder Bay and play Grizzly Adams.

Don't fret the "plagiarism" thing. I can understand the urge to just cut-and-paste to start discussions, and -- my gosh almighty -- this is just a discussion forum, not a peer-reviewed journal. I don't remember who outed you on that but I think given the cirumstances, it would have been more tactful to just have sent you a warning e-mail in private. But, keep in mind you are among Objectivists, so you always run the risk of the "gotcha" game. I mean, really, who goes around ripping off Wikipedia writers to gain notoriety and riches? You'd have done better changing your name to "Gustav"! ;)

Well, til later, goodbye. I'll look you up in your neck of the woods and share a Labatt's with you.

Keep up the cartoons! They bring a smile to me face.

Robert

P.S. : I ned to know before you go: IS that monkey on Ronnie Reagan's back Bonzo or Jerry Ford? R

Robert,

Okay, I will come out of retirement to answer your question, since you now asked it twice and you are such a cool guy. (My god, my god, there are two religionists I like—you and Rich. What kinda Objectivist am I??) :turned:

Regarding Reagan: I never thought of Jerry Ford when I rendered that caricature, but rather: a playful wink at both Bonzo and Cornelius from Planet of The Apes. (Bloody weird, huh?)

You see, in my little microcosmic metaphysics, (can you dig the twist on Objectivist lingo?) I like to not only exaggerate pop culture, (or simply "culture") but also toss in little “clues” -- or juxtapositions of other pop culture references for a unique mongrel mix! (The Reagan caricature is not the best example of what I mean). Still, in Canada, I’m the only caricaturist who does that. In fact, in all the television and print interviews that does some story on me point out my penchant for doing this. Incidentally, I never considered myself a 'cartoonist' -- but rather an artist who likes to caricature.

Robert, I will hang out on the sidelines of OL, as a god like-figure, reading posts. I will let the curious know how my first meeting with Angie goes and certainly let all those know about Icons and Idols once I get this monster project done. And yes, I agree: It’s only a forum—not Time Magazine in which I receive a royalty check. The thread in question was “chewing on ideas” –not “Articles.” I maintain I want to save time and plunge in the joys of conversation, my social side getting the better of me. Turns out, I'm evvvval! Really, I believe I gave a lot to OL...but that's my subjective take, right? You know, I have made a lot of friends here. My god, I received a lot of PMs, asking me to stay or to at least come back later. It was a heart-warm.

Robert, I’m tired. I'm burned out. I need a break. I’m just tired of the acrimony and games and the policing. So, my ultimate “time saver” is to just stop to return to what I am: an artist that can paint and draw caricatures, poking fun at the world around me. It’s a beautiful world, a sad world—but never forget: a funny world.

Good premises.

--Victor

Edited April 23, 2007 by Victor Pross