zantonavitch Posted May 8, 2007 Author Share Posted May 8, 2007 (edited) Michael: I appreciate the length and thoughtfulness of your reply. But I would simply emphasize and amplify what I said before: This is a rich subject well worth thinking about. Current Objectivist theory in philosophy and psychology on the subject of enemies, hatred, revenge, etc. is, in my view, quite poor. And while I don't pretend I know everything about these subjects, I'm not sure how focused and coherent your reply is. Like everyone else, you seem a bit all over the place. Your arguments certainly seem to have several Christian elements in them -- which you and I have absorbed by osmosis -- but which I am very suspicious of. Still, maybe I can hazard a few general responses...Emotions like hatred and love aren't virtues or vices in themselves altho' they can indicate them if one hates and loves truly valueable and worthy things.I don't know that I'm advocating "seeking" hatred or "taking delight" in discovering bad guys, except that life is all about pain in some important senses. Humans forever "seek" or "take delight" in work. This means new jobs and new obstacles to overcome. Proper people, in my view, continually look out for new problems to solve and new enemies to defeat. Of course, from a different perspective there's never a need to look -- since pain, work, problems, and enemies come looking for you. :devil: And maybe -- brace yourself! -- you underestimate the value of defecation, urination, scratching, picking, sneezing, cleaning, combing, drinking, eating, medicating, massaging, etc. As the widest possible variety of intellectuals like to say: "Nothing human is alien to me." :devil: Some of the argument here isn't particularly fair. It implies I'm advocating "wallowing in hatred" and "emphasizing" hatred, "over long periods," at "extreme levels" etc. That isn't an accurate rendering of my claims, as anyone who reads above can see.Barbara Branden started down the right path with her speech on "Objectivist rage." But there's a long, long way to go here. Much more than people know, rage and hatred can be good. All those sloppy-idealism "Kumbaya" beliefs, and all those Jewish/Christian straw men arguments, and all that wildly inappropriate and misdirected Objectivist cultist rage and hatred doesn't change this. As Aristotle noted, anyone can be angry. But to be so at the right time and for the right reasons is hard. What Aristole failed to note -- because the evil of religion and altruism hadn't been invented yet -- is that anyone can be "superior" and decline to be enraged and hate-filled at enemies and evil-doers. Edited May 8, 2007 by Kyrel Zantonavitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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