My Musing on Roger Penrose

[James Heaps-Nelson]

Roger Penrose's quantum gravity is more elegant than the Dune universe! In supermassive black holes, you get quantum decoherence of gravity waves. Because in the Schwarzschild equation R=2GM/c^2 the density of a black hole decreases as the mass of a black hole increases to the point where the quantum gravity wavefunction comes out of superposition, so that the black hole becomes governed by Einstein's General Theory of Relativity and not a unified theory of quantum gravity.

So quantum gravity applies in smaller black holes and the first few instants after the Big Bang (or great inflation).

Roger Penrose claim your Nobel Prize!

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

James,

I am so sorry for getting here so late.

I have just been turned onto Roger Penrose in a discussion on X of curing Alzheimer's and dementia with untrasounds of a certain wave frequency.

I got onto this by following a rabbit hole. According to the guy below, untrasounds within a certain frequency range stimulate the repair and regrowth of microtubules in brain cells. And this causes permanent reversal of Alzheimer's in the short term.

For my context, the user comments attached did not exist when I first started following this. According to Sterling, some research was done previously at a university (I do not know which) and it was hounded out of the scientific community with censorship, intimidation and all the normal things we see in the science community world when big bucks and the the Medical Industrial Complex get involved.

I followed a huge amount of noise Sterling made on X because the people hating on him looked so much like the people I have encountered who trashed those who asked about vaccines and autism, or the validity of manmade climate change, or the jab, and all the other scientism bullshit hoaxes crony corporatist authoritarians have laid on us to get money and power.

 

Sterling's theory is that microtubules are some kind of interface between normal material reality and quantum reality. (It's not his theory, it's the one he adheres to.)

I had to admit, though, Sterling was not adept at dealing with the mob. He got defensive, hostile and vague. Sill, I felt something was there. He was attracting too many heavy hitters.

And then he posted the following:

I thought why not?

I looked up Stuart Hameroff, who is Roger Penrose's partner in a project, and Orch OR, and off I went down a rabbit hole made by giant fucking rabbits.

 

Both Hameroff and Penrose are fantastic. They do not do interviews spouting jargon-laden mumble mumble mumble, although when called on to elaborate on a point, they do heavy jargon as naturally as talking about eggs and bacon. And they explain it in plain English as they go along.

I am hooked and drinking from the firehose right now. There is a lot of material out there.

 

I know you posted about Penrose's black hole theories, but I find this microtubule stuff (essentially his consciousness stuff) way way waaaaaaaaaaay more fascinating. Not to mention interconnecting the normal physical world with the quantum world.

Part of the reason is personal. I have been arguing for years that consciousness is made of the same stuff as the rest of the universe, that it did not emerge out of a nothing called "complex system" or "synergy."

And I have argued that there are parts of reality that we do not have sense organs for and humans might be evolving those sense organs right now. 

I have been arguing these things all this time in blissful newbieness. Now I am finding these scientists saying the same thing but in scientific language. I feel vindicated after being shat on and dismissed for so long for my speculations.

 

btw - Sterling might look a bit like a fanatic in the aggressive way he responds at times, but it looks like he got a real research project funded where he will be treating human patients with bad cases of Alzheimer's with untrasounds and he will publish the findings, including all parameters and outcomes. Since the full treatment protocol is only 10 sessions, the main delay will be getting the paperwork in order.

If you are interested, Sterling, so far, is posting every day on X like there is no tomorrow.

 

Also, I am doing a deeper dive on Hameroff and watching one video after another of Roger Penrose. What a delightful old chap.

 

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I wish I had more time to delve into this, but I do manage to get glimpses of what other people I respect say.

For example, Chris Langan has a lot of interesting observations.

That one that jumped out at me was his opinion of Penrose.

 

From an O-Land perspective, wanna know something interesting?

Chris says Penrose is absolutely brilliant. And do you know what his flaw is for Chris.

That Penrose has an ideal theory of forms like Plato did.

 

 

btw - I absolutely agree with Chris on getting to a theory of everything. You have to start with everything, then go from there. You don't start with parts and try to derive the whole from them.

This is the main beef I have with the people who claim consciousness emerged in some complex synergistic way.

I have even had a lot of cognitive dissonance in a similar way with Rand's primacy theories--Primacy of Existence versus Primacy of Consciousness.

That has always bothered me, sort of like arguing about the Primacy of Bread versus the Primacy of Bagels. You can't have the latter without the former.

But I think it goes deeper. I think consciousness is a fundamental part of reality, that it's all the same thing but in differing degrees and forms, that there is no such thing as reality without consciousness.

I look at it more like asking which is the more fundamental human part, the heart or the liver?

Without either, you die.

 

Now back to looking with interest at my naval...

 

Michael

 

[tmj]

I've been following a rabbit hole of my own of late. It started with stumbling upon Alfred North Whitehead and his Reality and Process and the algorithms soon put me in touch with figures like Langan and Curt , and then to a crush on Bernardo Kastrup and his Analytic Idealism and now to Advaita Vedanta. What a ride ,lol.

All differrent and yet there's something there there. I resonate with nondual thought and have come to realize my O'ish/t base or development instilled and concentrated a strict physicalist metaphysics.

Atman is Brahman

ps Sir Roger is an awesome dude

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

T,

I just discovered the motherlode for where to get a correct overview on everyone relevant to these issues in terms even a layman can understand.

Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimunga

I'm afraid to start watching.

From what I can tell on a skim, you get the Good, the Bad and the Ugly at that channel, and some Beauty...

Hell, I'm going to need to figure out how to scooch over to the quantum field of reality where time gets weird just to have time enough to see all this stuff.

 

Michael

[tmj]

I've been watching Curt's channel for a awhile. For a real hoot( the good kind, not derisive) check out his interviews with Wolfgang Smith, quite another neat old school dude.