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1 hour ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Philosophy is under--and (when done right) stems from--human nature. Even in O-Land, too many people ignore human nature and try to mold people with philosophy. 

Here's a perfect example of the effect of philosophy being nonexistent when it conflicts with human nature: President Trump.

Many people (many, many people) in O-Land espouse a bunch of the same values President Trump has put into practice every day of his life, but they still fear and despise him. Many of them would take Hillary Clinton over President Trump in a heartbeat. Philosophically, he is far closer to Rand and libertarianism than she will ever be, yet they, many of the defenders of Objectivism, prefer her.


Because, somewhere along the way, they learned that threatening people and predators have some of the characteristics of President Trump. So when they see such a characteristic (for instance, bragging), they automatically assume that a predator or brainless bully is the one speaking. And they believe as fact (laced with terror) if that despised person gets power, he will use it to harm them and/or those they care about. My God, man! Can't you see? We may not survive!

They need no further information than a surface appearance to know this person is a BAD GUY and no amount of reason or philosophy or pointing to achievement, etc., will shake them of this belief. It's wedded too closely to a strong emotion, to something they experienced in reality or in a story that scared the crap out of them.

Only another "human nature" thing will do the trick and it generally has to be an emotional story, say, Trump saving someone vulnerable (but valued by the Trump hater) from imminent harm by facing great personal danger. Then they will start to change their minds and even repent publicly as their heartfelt tears flow.


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Michael wrote: If there is a difference between observable human nature and a philosophical principle, human nature has to take precedence if the philosophy is to reflect reality. And when there is a contradiction, it's the philosophy that has to change, not human nature. end quote

And Bob responded to Wolf: "Higher Ed" also produces engineers, physicists, chemists, physicians, and other folks in advanced technology.  You know,....  the class of people that maintain and increase the technology and science on which our prosperity depends.  Where would the U.S. be without transistors? Or without polymer chemistry? end quote

Why am I tying those two thoughts together? When I was studying to be a teacher we watched videos of kids from around the world. Hours and hours of videos so I am thinking about humans in general. If you watch two year olds from around the world they are remarkably similar. You could be watching North American two year olds and mistake them for two year olds in Germany or Egypt. It’s amazing, though there are distinct differences between boys and girls. Watch another snap shot of 13 year olds from around the world and discount the spoken words and the clothes and again people are remarkably similar. Nurture and nature produce similar results. Kids getting basic education? Very similar around the globe. Listen to teens answering and talking on the phone? It’s the same kids though they may say “Hello” in America and “Mooshy, Mooshy” (sp?) in Japan.

I agree that indoctrination can “mold” a person as occurred in Mao’s China. I think college professors can turn decent kids into snowflakes or liberals. But much of this “changing nature” occurs at the adult level when *reason* has manifested itself. That should not be.


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