How do you know murder is wrong?

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

22 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said:

The idea wrong education can cause autism seems completely nonsensical to me.

Brant,

It's a Lamarckian view of evolution. Instead of life forms adapting and passing on offspring, the Lamarckian believes species engineer it  through specific actions. Thus a giraffe has a long neck because lots of giraffes stretched their necks to get at food in tree tops. There may be some element of truth in this in the mix, but evolution is way more complicated.

In my understanding of Greg's idea, as government education leads people to think in certain ways, it changes their brains and somehow alters their genes. Then they pass those genes off to their offspring. Thus we now have the current outbreak of autism among the young. The healthy minds of the parents got deformed, and now they are passing off unhealthy minds to their children.

It would be wonderful if evolution worked that quickly, but it doesn't. You only get results within that kind of time frame in laboratories with physical splicing and reassembling and grafting of genes and gene parts. Species alone this would need many centuries.

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

Changing brains and altering genes are two different things.

I don't recall Greg was into government gene altering through nurture.

--Brant

 

[moralist]

4 hours ago, Brant Gaede said:

The idea wrong education can cause autism seems completely nonsensical to me. 

It's perfectly logical to me, Brant... because I escaped becoming one of secular liberal government education's brain damaged products.

I positively HATED school... and I have the grades to prove it!  It was demeaning to me to be told what to think by government union employee parasites who never created anything useful in their lives.

My mind hasn't been conditioned by government education. And because I wasn't imprinted to become an employee, my uncultivated mind is completely free to create and innovate and build. "Galt's Gulch" is a laboratory for my ideas and even though I'm old I'm still constantly coming up with ways to improve the quality of my life by becoming more productive efficient and self sufficient.

Everything has a cause. The explosive epidemic of autism is a just and deserved consequence of the exponential proliferation of secular liberal government education.

Minds need to be damaged in order to produce products of their government who will serve their government... so that they will in turn spawn more damaged products of the government who will serve their government.

Don't forget... the god of secular liberalism IS government bureaucracy uber alles... and this is how their god perpetuates its continued growth.

The reward for not worshipping the god of secular liberal government education...

...is freedom from it.

 

Greg

 

 

[moralist]

17 hours ago, Brant Gaede said:

First I've ever heard that Autism was caused by nurture.

Well, now you have, Brant.

And it comes from outside the box... because I'm outside the box.

There are two steps in the process.

 First, secular liberal government education mindfucks kids to think in a certain way... and not to think in other ways.

Then those kids become parents who produce the the just and deserved consequences of being mindfucked by secular liberal government education.

 

Greg

[moralist]

3 hours ago, Brant Gaede said:

Changing brains and altering genes are two different things.

Yes they are, Brant...

...and one precedes to the other. People who chose to be imprinted by secular liberal government education pass on a lot more than just physical characteristics to their kids.

Secular liberal government education produces autism.

MORE government education  =  MORE autism

 

Greg

[moralist]

I just now realized something else...

Autism is an innate protective defensive response to the threat of secular liberal government education. Whatever doors the mindfuck normally enters are closed to keep it out. Yesterday with the kid I discovered those autistically closed doors were totally open to me because my unconditioned mind posed no threat to him...

...and we had no end of fun!

Greg

[Peter]

Michael wrote: Rotten folks in Islam exist, but so do good folks (the vast majority). All anyone needs to do is look. Once that's identified correctly, then we can evaluate it correctly . . . .  After that evaluation, we can act with full knowledge that we are dealing with reality, not imagination where anything goes. end quote

I looked all over the fields and the forest but I did not see any Mohammedans. So the vast majority of Muslims are good folks, Michael? Since none of them live around here, I will have to go by the news I hear, and rational thought. What ever happened to Ayn Rand’s philosophical detection? She thought bad philosophy led to bad thoughts. Plato, led to Hegel, led to Marx led to totalitarian government, etc. Thoughts have consequences, so bad religion leads to bad thinking and a bad life. A religion that’s basic tenets are those of Islam will carry on a tradition of intolerance, subjugation, obedience to the Islamic state, and . . . . as President Trump stated during the campaign he wanted a “total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on.”

In the mean time we have banned travel from several Islamic states, though liberal judges keep interfering, and Britain bans laptops and cellphones from Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Tunisia and Saudi Arabia, etc. Countries like Japan have less than a one tenth of one percent Muslim population.

Open borders are for pigeons, not for people who support terrorism by a greater than an ADMITTED 10 percent margin. Does anyone seriously NOT THINK the true number of Muslims in the world who were dancing in their minds after 9/11, (if not in the streets like the Palestinians) . . . may be nearly all of them? Like Marxist theory, Islamic theory is evil whenever put into practice. It leads to Sharia Law and the subjugation of other religions, minorities and WOMEN!

Do you non-Muslims and atheists plan on any trips to Saudi Arabia in the future? Want to retire to sunny Yemen? Travelocity has a bargain package for you! No credit cards. Just cash up front, and put your affairs in order before you go. And back to the topic of this thread, “How do you know murder is wrong?” Beheading and amputations in the name of Allah are not murder to the Islamists. It is justice and the will of Allah as clearly stated in the Koran. So. As any vet would say, if you see a dog acting like it is rabid . . .  

Peter   

[BaalChatzaf]

16 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Greg,

Autism is physical.

Some of it can be reversed with neuroplasticity (slow-building neural networks), but attitudes don't cause it. Attitudes can aggravate it when the child needs certain kinds of attention and gets another, but the children come into life autistic, or are transformed from one day to the next with a vaccine shot as has happened too often to ignore, or things like that.

When there is a correlation of high pockets of autism with certain attitudes, I suspect the lifestyle of people who think in those ways come with common habits that include the toxic elements. Whether this is nutrition, vaccines, pollution, cleaning chemicals, microwaves, radiations of different sorts, etc., nobody knows yet. Nutrition has become a biggie in many cases (not all). Kat sees this all the time among the people she interacts with.

Also, there are many kinds of autism. It's like heart attacks. There are varieties. This is one area where it's easy to oversimplify and end up contributing to the problem. Take a look at the vaccine debate and the mess that's caused through oversimplification. People yell at each other instead of seeking cures, meanwhile, autism stats grow and grow. This is both sides, too. Some kids even get sick from not getting correct vaccines.

Michael

The socially disruptive and disturbing results of Aspberger's can be avoided or lessened by developing coping strategies.  I am a very smart Aspie so eventually I developed (by empirical means)  modes of behaving "in public"  that was less disturbing to the neuro-typicals around me (including my wife and children). The last thing I wish to do is upset  the people I love the most.  So I taught myself to not display (or hide, if you will)  the consequences of my literal mindedness and the consequences of not catching subtle social hints or not reading the body language of other people correctly.  There are definite difficulties to being socially "deaf".  One must learn to pass for human among the humans to have less pain and annoyance.  

So I have learned to pass for human with a success rate of over 90% during the past 6 decades or so.  My first 20 years were the roughest,  particularly with the bullies.  

 

[moralist]

48 minutes ago, BaalChatzaf said:

The socially disruptive and disturbing results of Aspberger's can be avoided or lessened by developing coping strategies.  I am a very smart Aspie so eventually I developed (by empirical means)  modes of behaving "in public"  that was less disturbing to the neuro-typicals around me (including my wife and children). The last thing I wish to do is upset  the people I love the most.  So I taught myself to not display (or hide, if you will)  the consequences of my literal mindedness and the consequences of not catching subtle social hints or not reading the body language of other people correctly.  There are definite difficulties to being socially "deaf".  One must learn to pass for human among the humans to have less pain and annoyance.  

So I have learned to pass for human with a success rate of over 90% during the past 6 decades or so.  My first 20 years were the roughest,  particularly with the bullies.  

 

That's how you tried to protect yourself from your government mindfucked parents... however you ended up becoming one of them by choosing the secular liberal government education system which indoctrinated you with the liberal value of being proud of being crippled. That pride makes you you want to mindfuck others if given the opportunity. I hope you weren't able to give others any reason to try to protect themselves from you however much you wanted to pass on your condition.

Greg

[Peter]

Greg wrote: That's how you tried to protect yourself from your government mindfucked parents... end quote

Spock would not do a mind meld with you even if his life depended on it. As Charlie Brown says, “Aaargh!” When did you become such a potty mouth?   

And now some fun with Dick and Jane and their dog Spot. The old switcheroo. There is a philosophy called Cueballism. It basic axiom is: Cueball climbed out of a well and now he is the ruler of the universe. It is decreed you must read the Curan, a book, written by the philosopher Muddly. He must be obeyed. If you do not obey Cueball or Muddly it is moral to cut off opposing limbs, say your left foot and your right hand. If you really, really disobey these esteemed philosophers it is moral to chop off your head or submerge you underwater in a cage until you drown. It is moral to blow up the buildings of the unphilosophical or deniers of this perfect philosophy. And of course you should blow up the Boston Marathon, or run over the unphilosophical with trucks. Stab the unbelievers? Of course.

Not all adherents of the Cueball philosophy do these things. But it is so written, so you should allow the Cueballs to come to America and build a Muddly Temple in your community. Scientology now seems benign in comparison. President Trump gets it. And I bet most Objectivists get it.

Peter  

[moralist]

3 hours ago, Peter said:

 As Charlie Brown says, “Aaargh!” When did you become such a potty mouth? 

That descriptor accurately conveys the profane nature of the behavior to which it refers.

Greg

[Peter]

From “What Every American Needs to Know About Islam” by Caleb Parke: . . . . For instance, did you know that the Koran is predominantly about the kafirs, or non-Muslims, rather than a book about Muslims? It’s the only religion whose holy text is focused on non-believers, and as Nonie notes, the West should be alarmed about what is written in the Koran about us, non-Muslims.

“The Islamic God, Allah, requires his followers to dedicate their lives to change, fix, convert, or kill kafirs, whom Allah calls his enemies. That, in a nutshell, is the holy mission of a Muslim if he is to please his God and go to heaven,” Darwish writes.

She clearly lays out the stark contrast between the Bible and the Koran: Jesus Died for Us vs. We Must Die for Allah. Life Is Sacred vs. Death Is Worship. We Are All Sinners vs. They Are All Sinners. God the Redeemer vs. Allah the Humiliator.

Nonie says she wrote this book, “to uncover the full scope of this threat from Islam — something the West desperately needs to be aware of.” She goes on, “Islamic values versus Biblical values is a bloody collision waiting to happen. The West must be warned. But I am also writing this book for Muslim immigrants…Islamic values are fundamentally incompatible with Western values, the U.S. Constitution, and the American way of life.”

Darwish makes the distinction that she is not criticizing people, but rather a “toxic ideology” that she “lived under and escaped from.”

[moralist]

4 hours ago, Peter said:

Darwish makes the distinction that she is not criticizing people, but rather a “toxic ideology” that she “lived under and escaped from.”

Nonie makes the most powerful witness because she speaks from her first person experience. Dennis Prager has talked with her on his radio show many times.

 

Quote

"Islamic values versus Biblical values is a bloody collision waiting to happen."

 

She is absolutely correct... because the only thing taking a stand against Islamic fascism on behalf of Western civilization is Judeo Christian values.

Greg

[jts]

3 hours ago, moralist said:

Nonie makes the most powerful witness because she speaks from her first person experience. Dennis Prager has talked with her on his radio show many times.

Brigitte Gabriel is another anti-Islam activist who grew up under sharia, probably the most powerful of them all. If you listen to her youtube videos, you will be impressed.

 

[moralist]

1 hour ago, jts said:

Brigitte Gabriel is another anti-Islam activist who grew up under sharia, probably the most powerful of them all. If you listen to her youtube videos, you will be impressed.

 

Thanks, Jerry. Those brave women are the tip of the spear. The hide of the enemy is thick and the strongest shield protecting them is the secular left.

Greg

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

The real spear is called Donald John Trump and he ain't spouting this stuff.

Instead of standing AGAINST something, he stands FOR America. He stands FOR the American good guy, FOR American business, FOR American individuals and families, even FOR the American approach to Christianity (success on earth is good) when he talks religion.

All enemies, foreign and domestic, fall within that priority.

The thing I like best about him is that he ignores all the rest.

Michael

[moralist]

4 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

The real spear is called Donald John Trump and he ain't spouting this stuff.

I believe it's because he's coming at Islam from a completely different direction than the ladies.

Making America great again is such a beautifully simple statement, isn't it? Donald's forte is simplicity in communicating good ideas, and then acting to realize them.

Obama was just a talker...

...whereas Trump is a doer.

Greg

 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

50 minutes ago, moralist said:

I believe it's because he's coming at Islam from a completely different direction than the ladies.

Greg,

Exactly.

President Trump's perspective is the frame I am trying to encourage.

The victimization story is necessary for isolating and remedying problems, but, in the perspective I advocate, it should always fall UNDER the hero's journey of creating and forging a good life. It is a problem to solve, not a purpose to live by.

The ladies have an important story to tell, especially since they have personally suffered under Islamic rule run wild, but when I hear it, I hear it as a cautionary tale, not as a call to stop my life, pick up arms and join The Crusades, and that suddenly becomes the main thing I'm about.

In the way people on our side treat Islam, especially when they go into bitching mode, they make the main point of their philosophical principles and thinking an identification with the victim. And that is sooooooooooooooo leftie it hurts. That's all lefties do in their storytelling: victimization stories about class oppression. They put a victim's face on an entire class and weaponize this with philosophy as the new meaning of life.

There is no hero's face to them except for a sporadic Avenging Angel archetype. And that dude is usually the one who gets all the power in the end and becomes a tyrant. He changes from avenger to oppressor. Why? Because living to destroy is all he knows for meaning in life.

The only thing you do when The Victim (or The Oppressed Class) becomes your top priority and image of what life could and should be is destroy. Your entire existence is defined by the bully and all you live and breathe for is to destroy the bully.

You don't build anything. 

What's worse, once the hatred kicks in, settles and grows deep roots, you don't even care when you misidentify the bully. All you care about is attacking. Guilty, innocent, it doesn't matter after a while. All who are not in the right tribe, or who don't say the right words, must be attacked and destroyed. That's the end game with this mindset and it always comes. I give you the entire history of mankind as evidence.

When a pro-freedom pro-values pro-producing perspective is adopted, you knock out an enemy to get him out of your way when needed, but you move on once he is out of your way. You leave the mess behind and go forth to build great things--because building great things is what you were mostly thinking about when you knocked him out. The victim avenger who lives only to destroy, if he wins, will stop his journey and try to keep eating off the same damn cadaver (even as it rots) until life passes him by.

And here's the biggest irony. The Islam loathers need Islam far more than most Muslims do. The hatred gives their lives purpose. Without Islam, they lose meaning--there's no reason for them to get up in the morning other than Islam.

Michael

[anthony]

On 2017/04/09 at 1:03 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Tony,

This is the kind of observation that belongs on a philosophy forum.

What I object to is that whenever something like this is said, up pops someone to say:
-- Moderate Muslims don't exist,
-- Islam is violent, period,
-- If a Muslim is good, it's because he doesn't practice Islam, so he's not really a Muslim,
-- There are only shitholes in Islamic culture,
-- Muhammad was a pedophile,
-- blah blah blah

It always goes back to these kinds of things.

The thing I most object to is the sheer repetition of stereotypical garbage in the place of reason as if it were reason.

It's like if we were to discuss Charles Murray's work on racial statistics, and someone keeps popping up talking about blacks eating watermelon and fried chicken all the time, or black bucks raping white women, or blacks only being worth something when they act like whites, and on and on (or stuff like that about latinos, etc.). It's low-thinking garbage to scratch a bigotry itch or maybe sheer terror. Whatever it is, it's not an engaged prefrontal neocortex.

There are plenty of problems with Islam, and plenty to discuss about how to get the Muslims who are among us to assimilate Western values, how to get them to isolate the fanatics among them and punish them, etc., but going on Jihad Watch and copy/pasting the same old cherry-picked texts from the Qu'ran for the thousandth time to show how icky Muslims are is not a discussion of fundamentals, nor even an indication that the copy/paster knows anything about the religion and Muslims.

We have brains and OL is not a Pavlovian experiment. We need more intelligent thought and less saliva when the bell dings.

Michael

Michael,

Doesn't it go to show, a response judged and acted upon from an emotion, can't ever be a moral response? It's enlightening to see how different individuals react to their fears (I include myself).To feel fear is completely appropriate in circumstances when one sees one's values are under 'attack', but all what then matters is making identification and rational assessment about the 'attacker', the threat, and reasserting one's values - and acting on that conclusion. To the extent one can. We aren't omnipotent.

Emotion is an automated effect, "a prompt", one could say, not a cause. (We know).

One sort of person feels the fear, which unresolved, turns (humanly) to anger and loathing, while another tries to dissipate his fear with conciliation and an artificial 'empathy'. So, the one feels he must make any retaliation to satisfy his fears, to hit back at any available target, (usually verbally, but not always) - the other endeavors to exhibit how bad/wrong he and his cultural and country's values have been, trying to defuse and placate attackers with 'good feelings' - but is only implicitly sanctioning and empowering his 'attacker'.

Reading between the lines of Dr. Rafizadeh's article, I think it's plain he does not want either of these displays of emotion, particularly the latter. He's asking for the West's rational and objective principles to be applied to his religion, not for our indulgence nor emotionality, not for the West's double standards or self-effacing compromises, and he's recognized this standard as the only worthwhile way forward that all Muslims can take from. To my mind that shows he is more rational than many.

[turkeyfoot]

9 hours ago, moralist said:

I believe it's because he's coming at Islam from a completely different direction than the ladies.

Making America great again is such a beautifully simple statement, isn't it? Donald's forte is simplicity in communicating good ideas, and then acting to realize them.

Obama was just a talker...

...whereas Trump is a doer.

Greg

 

I wont mince words.

Reagan used Make America Great (Again) in '80. It is a clearly communicated message. Not unique when Trump used it. And something that ought not be taken at face value. 

Obama was a doer. Simply look at the number of things DT has undone using the Congressional Review Act and his executive action.

True, Trump does have a record for taking apart Obamas executive actions, Keystone etc.

His signature plan has not yet succeeded since he hasnt yet undone ACA, and since its unlikely that he (them) will repeal the pre-existing rule and the children below 26 coverage, it essentially is a remake, not a redo and not a repeal, not now and not yet. I cant call him a liar since I knew what he intended and he posted his ACA lite policy on his pre presidential site. But it isnt a repeal. His usage of the word was more than a misrepresentation. Repeal means to revoke or annul (a law, tax, duty, etc.) by express legislative enactment; abrogate. There was never any intention of repeal. Full, partial, somewhat, fair to middlin, come what may.

What I will say about him is he is like all politicians who couch their verbiage in words that are rendered virtually meaningless without the accompanying articulated thoughts and actions. It is only deeds that matter.

What has he accomplished with the label "Radical Islamic Terrorism"? It can be said he is calling a thing what it is. But even in his effort to review the visa program we see a stumble and an inability to act in accordance with his principle. Why? His mouth got him in trouble.

How would you judge him on ACA? What does his communication "skill" tell us about how much better off we are that he can articulate an idea?

One thing I will give him is his nomination of the man who wielded a scalpel, appears to have found a $500B error in an audit at HUD. This is not enough. For until or unless he does something with it it redowns as a benefit to the what the government does. That is, it takes our money.

Granted he can only do so much to turn the tide.

Now if what I think you're saying is, hes a talker and a good one. That he is! Ramble on. 

[moralist]

10 minutes ago, turkeyfoot said:

Obama was a doer.

In terms of foreign policy Obama was all talk and no action.

He's an morally weak feminized pussy... a liberal male who failed to become a man.

 

Greg

[anthony]

They're lapping Pres Trump up, in some parts: "Abu Ivanka al-Amiriki" - (Father of Ivanka, the American).

 

"Arabs: Abu Ivanka (Trump) Is a Hero!"

by Bassam Tawil  •  April 10, 2017 at 4:00 am

"Arabs and Muslims have long lost faith in their leaders' ability to deal with the crises plaguing Arab and Islamic countries. The civil war in Syria, which has been raging for more than five years and which has claimed the lives of more than half a million people, is seen as a shining best example of Arab and Muslim leaders' incompetence and apathy.

Others are calling Trump "Lion of the Sunnis", "Caliph of the Muslims" and "Defender of the Islamic Holy Sites." Some wrote: "Blessed be the hands of Abu Ivanka al-Amiriki (Trump)," and expressed hope that he would do more to rid the Syrian people of their dictator. "We love you Trump" and "Trump is our hope" are two of many hashtags that have become extremely popular on social media, especially Twitter. Many of the writers are Syrians, Egyptians and Gulf citizens.

Many Arabs and Muslims perceive themselves to have been betrayed by the Obama administration. They felt, rightly, that the Obama administration turned its back on Washington's friends and allies in the Arab world in favor of Iran and the Muslim Brotherhood.

A new hero has been born in the Arab world and his name is Donald Trump. And this is not a joke."

[Bassam Tawil].

[BaalChatzaf]

1 hour ago, anthony said:

They're lapping Pres Trump up, in some parts: "Abu Ivanka al-Amiriki" - (Father of Ivanka, the American).

 

"Arabs: Abu Ivanka (Trump) Is a Hero!"

by Bassam Tawil  •  April 10, 2017 at 4:00 am

"Arabs and Muslims have long lost faith in their leaders' ability to deal with the crises plaguing Arab and Islamic countries. The civil war in Syria, which has been raging for more than five years and which has claimed the lives of more than half a million people, is seen as a shining best example of Arab and Muslim leaders' incompetence and apathy.

Others are calling Trump "Lion of the Sunnis", "Caliph of the Muslims" and "Defender of the Islamic Holy Sites." Some wrote: "Blessed be the hands of Abu Ivanka al-Amiriki (Trump)," and expressed hope that he would do more to rid the Syrian people of their dictator. "We love you Trump" and "Trump is our hope" are two of many hashtags that have become extremely popular on social media, especially Twitter. Many of the writers are Syrians, Egyptians and Gulf citizens.

Many Arabs and Muslims perceive themselves to have been betrayed by the Obama administration. They felt, rightly, that the Obama administration turned its back on Washington's friends and allies in the Arab world in favor of Iran and the Muslim Brotherhood.

A new hero has been born in the Arab world and his name is Donald Trump. And this is not a joke."

[Bassam Tawil].

Being held in high esteem by the scum of the earth is great praise?

[anthony]

2 hours ago, BaalChatzaf said:

Being held in high esteem by the scum of the earth is great praise?

It's a report. I passed it on. Make of it what you will. I have no clue whether these are "scum" or not. How can you know? Maybe it's the desperation of many who've previously only heard acquiesence? Whatever they are, it's better to command respect from certain people than affection. Second, a palpable change is being brought about by Trump, he's not bluffing.

[moralist]

5 hours ago, BaalChatzaf said:

Being held in high esteem by the scum of the earth is great praise?

 

7 hours ago, anthony said:

They're lapping Pres Trump up, in some parts: "Abu Ivanka al-Amiriki" - (Father of Ivanka, the American).

 

"Arabs: Abu Ivanka (Trump) Is a Hero!"

by Bassam Tawil  •  April 10, 2017 at 4:00 am

"Arabs and Muslims have long lost faith in their leaders' ability to deal with the crises plaguing Arab and Islamic countries. The civil war in Syria, which has been raging for more than five years and which has claimed the lives of more than half a million people, is seen as a shining best example of Arab and Muslim leaders' incompetence and apathy.

Others are calling Trump "Lion of the Sunnis", "Caliph of the Muslims" and "Defender of the Islamic Holy Sites." Some wrote: "Blessed be the hands of Abu Ivanka al-Amiriki (Trump)," and expressed hope that he would do more to rid the Syrian people of their dictator. "We love you Trump" and "Trump is our hope" are two of many hashtags that have become extremely popular on social media, especially Twitter. Many of the writers are Syrians, Egyptians and Gulf citizens.

Many Arabs and Muslims perceive themselves to have been betrayed by the Obama administration. They felt, rightly, that the Obama administration turned its back on Washington's friends and allies in the Arab world in favor of Iran and the Muslim Brotherhood.

A new hero has been born in the Arab world and his name is Donald Trump. And this is not a joke."

[Bassam Tawil].

I makes me happy to read that, Tony.

Even though Trump is certainly no "Muslim Messiah"... he does have the opportunity to make some friends among good people even if it means making more enemies of evil people.

But the fact that Trump is actually making real decisions conerning the Middle East makes him appear like a savior compared to eight years of this sissy.

Instead of "leading FROM behind" ...

...it should be "leading WITH his behind".

Greg