Stealing moral if starving?

[Wolf DeVoon]

5 hours ago, moralist said:

Come on, Wolf... you're not begging for bread... secondary income can be obtained from selling novels as screenplays for movies.

$15,000 credit card balances, no job, no book sales. Movies?? -- hahahahaha, jeez. A lot you know.

[Brant Gaede]

9 hours ago, moralist said:

Come on, Wolf... you're not begging for bread. 

Just an off topic thought... secondary income can be obtained from selling novels as screenplays for movies.

Greg

Wow! You are completely at sea here.

--Brant

[moralist]

6 hours ago, wolfdevoon said:

$15,000 credit card balances, no job, no book sales. Movies?? -- hahahahaha, jeez. A lot you know.

Sorry, Wolf. Didn't know. You can blame me if you want but I didn't put you where you are... you did.

I only know how to put me where I am. BBC paid us handsomely for our film project to make a documentary. If you create something unique enough, someone will pay good money for it... and this was just a side venture for the fun of it.

Greg

[moralist]

2 hours ago, Brant Gaede said:

Wow! You are completely at sea here.

--Brant

Brant, I live not far from Hollywood where everyone pitches everything. Good novels get picked up for movies all the time. Just check out the screen credtis. Lately I've been reading the second novel of a trilogy ("Bearth") that will be made into one or more movies.

Greg

[Wolf DeVoon]

9 hours ago, moralist said:

BBC paid us handsomely for our film project to make a documentary

Two questions, please. (1) how much is "handsomely" and (2) what was the subject of your documentary?

[Wolf DeVoon]

9 hours ago, moralist said:

Lately I've been reading the second novel of a trilogy ("Bearth") that will be made into one or more movies.

Pitiful. Laughable.

Quote

Planet Earth is made of two planets, one very high frequency, and one low frequency, occupying the same space. Merged during the Flood of Noah, they have been rotating in harmony for nearly six thousand years... the epic story of conflict and conquest between the five races of beings mentioned in the Book of Genesis... pockets of light are woven together as the ultimate conflict between the seed of Lucifer and the seed of Adam square off for the grand battle for inheritance of the Earth.

 

[moralist]

56 minutes ago, wolfdevoon said:

Pitiful. Laughable.

Laugh all you want, Wolf... Bearth will be a movie.

And while it's total fiction the basic moral premise holds true. For example, there are literally two Americas. The decent live in the ethical productive prosperous free market Capitalist America while the indecent failures live in the other unethical debtridden stinkhole that has nothing to do with the real America. And by moral law, each individual is getting exactly what they deserve as a natural result of the values they live by.

American Capitalism requires living by five basic principles:

1. Decency

2. Responsibility

3. Productivity

4. Solvency

5. Frugality

Violate any of those and you sure ain't no freakin' American Capitalist.

Simple as that.

 

Greg

[moralist]

1 hour ago, wolfdevoon said:

Two questions, please. (1) how much is "handsomely" and (2) what was the subject of your documentary?

The BBC documentary was about Carlos Castaneda. They paid us thousands of dollars just for a hobby we did on the side for fun in our spare time. This has nothing to do with my other business ventures.

If you can't make it in America today... there's something wrong with the way you're living. It's totally up to you whether or not you take the time to examine your own life to find out what it is it is and clean up your own shit...

...because no one else is going to do for you what you should be doing for yourself.

 

Greg

[Brant Gaede]

1 hour ago, moralist said:

Laugh all you want, Wolf... Bearth will be a movie.

And while it's total fiction the basic moral premise holds true. For example, there are literally two Americas. The decent live in the ethical productive prosperous free market Capitalist America while the indecent failures live in the other unethical debtridden stinkhole that has nothing to do with the real America. And by moral law, each individual is getting exactly what they deserve as a natural result of the values they live by.

American Capitalism requires living by five basic principles:

1. Decency

2. Responsibility

3. Productivity

4. Solvency

5. Frugality

Violate any of those and you sure ain't no freakin' American Capitalist.

Simple as that.

Greg

That's because you've equated them with your "American Capitalism" with more of your circular reasoning.  That doesn't mean these five points aren't good and valid. I'd like to add "integrity" to this list, btw, even though each of the five imply it.

--Brant

so Ayn Rand struggling to write The Fountainhead short of money taking time out to campaign for Wilkie with the rest of her savings came up morally short in your cosmology?

Prometheus too? (A bad boy for bringing men fire?)

[anthony]

1 hour ago, moralist said:

American Capitalism requires living by five basic principles:

1. Decency

2. Responsibility

3. Productivity

4. Solvency

5. Frugality

Violate any of those and you sure ain't no freakin' American Capitalist.

Simple as that.

 

Greg

You didn't include "competition", or more exactly "competitiveness" as a central principle, and I am all for that omission. I think what popularly demeans Capitalism is the very common fallacy among anti-capitalists (and some capitalists) that to succeed one's goal is to put others - competitors - out of business. Winner take all, dog eat dog, zero-sum game, etc. Of course, one should be aware of other businesses' prices and practices in one's location and sphere, but their success does not correlate with your failure, or the reverse. There's plenty of room for similar products and services, with many criteria to attract individual buyers' loyalty and money. (One might drive across town to a small greengrocer who's prices are higher than the mall but who's personal attentiveness and knowledge makes him pleasurable to deal with - for instance). Competitiveness seen as an end in itself, lends justifications to the government to quash 'monopolies' (which will always be short lived in a free market, anyway) and for businessmen to cosy up to govt. for special favors. I think ultimately, the standards of running a business creatively are one's own, not second-handed, comparative and imitative. (I'd add integrity to your list too).

[moralist]

48 minutes ago, anthony said:

You didn't include "competition", or more exactly "competitiveness" as a central principle, and I am all for that omission. I think what popularly demeans Capitalism is the very common fallacy among anti-capitalists (and some capitalists) that to succeed one's goal is to put others - competitors - out of business. Winner take all, dog eat dog, zero-sum game, etc. Of course, one should be aware of other businesses' prices and practices in one's location and sphere, but their success does not correlate with your failure, or the reverse. There's plenty of room for similar products and services, with many criteria to attract individual buyers' loyalty and money. (One might drive across town to a small greengrocer who's prices are higher than the mall but who's personal attentiveness and knowledge makes him pleasurable to deal with - for instance). Competitiveness seen as an end in itself, lends justifications to the government to quash 'monopolies' (which will always be short lived in a free market, anyway) and for businessmen to cosy up to govt. for special favors. I think ultimately, the standards of running a business creatively are one's own, not second-handed, comparative and imitative. (I'd add integrity to your list too).

Competitiveness goes along with productivity, just as integrity goes along with decency. And I agree, Capitalism isn't zero sum. There's an unlimited amount of business for anyone who can supply a need.

Greg

[moralist]

1 hour ago, Brant Gaede said:

That's because you've equated them with your "American Capitalism" with more of your circular reasoning.

Your opinion of "my American Capitalism" is irrelevant to me, Brant.

Those five ethical and fiscal principles work in my life and that's all that matters to me.  There can be no freedom in America without first working to earn the right to enjoy economic freedom.

 

Greg

[Wolf DeVoon]

Solvency a virtue, jeez. Read an Edison bio. Total book royalties paid to F. Scott Fitzgerald during his lifetime. And don't duck it, you like that stupid "seed of Satan" shit, think it refers to something in reality. I paid a steep price for who I am today, 50 years and $5 million. You couldn't afford a fraction of it, Greg, so STFU.

[Mark]

On 12/24/2016 at 5:53 AM, wolfdevoon said:

[replying to anthony] First of all, you're talking your own book, as they say, selling crap that puts cash in your pocket, lets you claim the high moral ground. Second, Israel was created by Harry Truman to win the 1948 election, which he privately resented, because it "legitimized" Zionist terrorism.

Little known fact: Truman knew about Zionist terrorism first hand.  If and when you have time:
The (First) Attempted Assassination of President Truman
(First because two years later a couple of pro-independence Puerto Ricans tried.)

[moralist]

6 hours ago, wolfdevoon said:

Solvency a virtue, jeez. Read an Edison bio. Total book royalties paid to F. Scott Fitzgerald during his lifetime. And don't duck it, you like that stupid "seed of Satan" shit, think it refers to something in reality. I paid a steep price for who I am today, 50 years and $5 million. You couldn't afford a fraction of it, Greg, so STFU.

Wolf, why get mad at me for the results of your own choices in life? I didn't make them, you did it to yourself, and you obviously felt it was worth the price to be who you are now or you wouldn't have made those choices in the first place whatever they were. The only questions worth asking yourself now is what happened to your five million dollars and what did you get in exchange for it? Did you make a good deal or a bad one?

It's of little interest to me what historical figures might have done in the dead past. However, what is most important to me in the living present is what I know by my own direct personal experience. So I'm happy with the results of following the principle of 100% solvency. Even though I have no education I'm really good at managing my own finances and never need to worry about money for the rest of my life.

There's a simple verse in the Bible:

"Owe nothing to anyone except to seek the best for one another."

This clearly defines the win/win business transactions of American Capitalism as I know them.

When you don't try to take advantage of others... they'll never be able to take advantage of you.

Greg

[Brant Gaede]

8 hours ago, moralist said:

Your opinion of "my American Capitalism" is irrelevant to me, Brant.

Those five ethical and fiscal principles work in my life and that's all that matters to me.  There can be no freedom in America without first working to earn the right to enjoy economic freedom.

Greg

Then why did you post them?

Should I strike "integrity"?

I wasn't on with what you quoted about your "American Capitalism" as such. Do you have a reading problem?

I was referring to your defective type of reasoning: Here are my five points. They equate with American Capitalism which equates with my five points. It's a circle. In spite of that I agree with the gist of it even though the subject is much more complex than in all your lived respects as related here. Debt for instance. There is good debt and bad debt. Present day there is a horrendous amount of bad debt. You seem to understand that. I don't see from you any understanding at all about good debt and its economic role. Unfortunately, the bad debt needs to go and will go in a great recessionary wave.

--Brant

[moralist]

4 hours ago, Brant Gaede said:

Then why did you post them?

Because those five principles are my own concrete practical working definition of American Capitalism drawn from my own direct personal experience of the consequences of my own actions... and your argument with what I said only reveals the fact that you haven't the slightest idea of how well they actually do work.

Doing what's morally right is always simple, Brant.  You think it's complicated only because you don't understand it.

Greg

[KorbenDallas]

16 hours ago, moralist said:

American Capitalism requires living by five basic principles:

1. Decency

2. Responsibility

3. Productivity

4. Solvency

5. Frugality

Violate any of those and you sure ain't no freakin' American Capitalist.

Simple as that.

 

Greg

Greg, I kind of like these.

1.  Decency --  Customers want to deal with someone with decency, and I'm guessing honesty falls under this.  Customers don't want to get ripped off.  Decency would cover dealing with other decent businessmen, people who are decent want to deal with one another.  Don't deal with people who aren't decent, don't reward the wicked.

2.  Responsibility -- A lot of crossover with Objectivism, self-responsibility.  Don't blame others, take responsibility for yourself, kick people out of your life who are a drain.

3.  Productivity -- Another principle that crosses over with Objectivism.

4.  Solvency -- Excellent business principle.

5.  Frugality --  Businesses typically want to be both effective and efficient, and frugality covers efficiency.  Be efficient in production, frugal with expenditures, spend less, more money for assets, helps with solvency.

 

[BaalChatzaf]

4 hours ago, KorbenDallas said:

Greg, I kind of like these.

1.  Decency --  Customers want to deal with someone with decency, and I'm guessing honesty falls under this.  Customers don't want to get ripped off.  Decency would cover dealing with other decent businessmen, people who are decent want to deal with one another.  Don't deal with people who aren't decent, don't reward the wicked.

2.  Responsibility -- A lot of crossover with Objectivism, self-responsibility.  Don't blame others, take responsibility for yourself, kick people out of your life who are a drain.

3.  Productivity -- Another principle that crosses over with Objectivism.

4.  Solvency -- Excellent business principle.

5.  Frugality --  Businesses typically want to be both effective and efficient, and frugality covers efficiency.  Be efficient in production, frugal with expenditures, spend less, more money for assets, helps with solvency.

 

The groundwork for these principles were layout down at least 2300 years ago.

R. Hillel  expressed the principle,  do not do to others that which you find hateful if done to you.

He further said:  

If I am not for myself, who is for me?

If I am for myself,  what am I?

If not now,  then when?

 

Neil Furgeson   generalized these principle to the social, economic and political level with what he called "The six killer apps of Western Civilization"

Please see:  http://www.wtps.org/cms/lib8/nj01912980/centricity/domain/939/killerapps-notes.pdf

 

 

[Brant Gaede]

6 hours ago, moralist said:

Because those five principles are my own concrete practical working definition of American Capitalism drawn from my own direct personal experience of the consequences of my own actions... and your argument with what I said only reveals the fact that you haven't the slightest idea of how well they actually do work.

Doing what's morally right is always simple, Brant.  You think it's complicated only because you don't understand it.

Greg

Do you know what you've done? You've thrown me into your ad hominem ideological stew pot without any indication you've comprehended what I said. I agreed with your list of five items and suggested a sixth. This is the second time I've pointed this out, but the slightest sense of disagreement and your moral narcissism kicks in.

--Brant

when you're talking to a brick wall, stop?

[Wolf DeVoon]

I get all kinds of stuff in my inbox each morning. Federal Signal wanted me to quote a 3M product in quantity. Delete. Dominic Frisby at Moneyweek had 12 predictions for 2017. Delete. There was digest from LinkedIn -- and this teaser made me think of Greg's myopic moral high ground:

Quote

2017. The Year of the Wonder Women. 
Jacki Zehner on LinkedIn
I believe in the story of Wonder Woman. I always have. Not the literal baby being
made from clay story, but the metaphorical one....

12428 people are talking about this

Bottom line: men and women have contrary moral purposes. Go ahead, 'splain how you stay solvent with children to feed and educate.

[anthony]

16 hours ago, Mark said:

Little known fact: Truman knew about Zionist terrorism first hand.  If and when you have time:
The (First) Attempted Assassination of President Truman
(First because two years later a couple of pro-independence Puerto Ricans tried.)

"This is our ally?"{Israel}

Who could have thought Great Britain would eventually become a close ally of the US directly after the American Revolution? (I'll bet my bottom dollar there were injustices/atrocities in that war). I read it took many years of a chilly relationship before trade, the The Great Rapprochemont of the early 20C and The Special Relationship cemented that friendship. That's the fine thing about looking back, we can see the dots of history connect and then cast our moral judgments. Shared, self-interested values - today - are all one has to count upon in alliances.

[moralist]

3 hours ago, Brant Gaede said:

Do you know what you've done? 

Yes, Brant I know exactly what I'm doing.  Do you?

First you complain about defective and circular reasoning. When acting on sound moral principles actually produce objective results in a person's life, the reasoning supporting them is totally irrelevant.

Then you argue that doing what's right is complicated. Brant, you couldn't be more wrong. Doing what's morally right is always simple. Things are only complicated when you're doing what's wrong while trying to intellectually convince yourself that it's right. Now that's complicated!

Then you pimp debt. Fine, Brant. Go live in debt. I couldn't care less. The majority of people are just like you. 80% in the people in the US live in debt. The US has a debt driven economy. That's why it's subject to periodic bursting bubbles. The next one to burst will be student loans which have ballooned to a staggering $1,600,000,000,000. A whopping 25% of that is already in default.

But this means that 20% of the people in the US are just like me and have no debt. Both they and I are immune to economic catastrophies because we operate on sound principles.

I enjoy listening to AM radio while I'm working, and there is a guy who has his own radio show named Dave Ramsey who is an extremely successful financially independent American Conservative Christian private sector Capitalist businessman who has NO debt. You ought to listen to him (even though I know you won't). You might just learn something about how living by specific moral principles produces wealth beyond your wildest dreams. America was uniquely designed as a exceptional nation in accordance with higher moral law, which produces abundance for anyone who chooses to live by its principles...

... and with a net worth of seven figures and not one penny of debt I too enjoy that abundance.

 

Greg

 

[moralist]

3 hours ago, wolfdevoon said:

I get all kinds of stuff in my inbox each morning. Federal Signal wanted me to quote a 3M product in quantity. Delete. Dominic Frisby at Moneyweek had 12 predictions for 2017. Delete. There was digest from LinkedIn -- and this teaser made me think of Greg's myopic moral high ground:

It's never wrong to take the moral high road in life, Wolf... and I'm enjoying the results of my myopia.

so why aren't you enjoying the results of your myopia in yours?

The answer to that is because we are each living by two completely different sets of values.

 

Quote

Bottom line: men and women have contrary moral purposes. Go ahead, 'splain how you stay solvent with children to feed and educate.

That's simple, Wolf.

Only irresponsible fools have children they can't support.

I still stand my my original statement that you will never see anyone begging for bread who does what's morally right.

 

Greg

[Wolf DeVoon]

3 hours ago, moralist said:

Only irresponsible fools have children they can't support.

Uh huh. So, the measure of a man is his bank balance.

    ^{Barack Obama Net Worth: $12.2 Million}

Record 95,102,000 Americans Not in Labor Force; Up 18% Since Obama Took Office...

http://www.inquisitr.com/3856471/michelle-obamas-real-feelings-about-hillary-clinton-and-melania-trump-is-the-caveat-for-20-million-book-deal/