The Biggest Threat in American History

[jts]

 

 

[william.scherk]

 

2 hours ago, jts said:

A new low in OL's anti-Islam programming, Jerry. I got to 4:13 or so before I needed to hurl. 

I am thinking of some fine people on hiatus from OL, the 'haters,' the biased or mentally deficient. the irrational at best. That you are more of a face of OL, with this video from Jeff Rense, well, it makes me sad, after ten years here in good thoughtful company.   It is too bad that you don't get out and talk to some Muslims in your home town, in your real world, rather than spinning yourself in a dark web of Rense. Personally discovering some  Muslim humanity might help you get back to your own, help you recover from what ails -- that you have ingested poison, and you don't know it. There is a spreading toxin, Jerry, and fasting on water cannot remove it.  Only reason, applied like a balm to your sorrows. Only reason can get you past this fever.

Right in your town are hundreds of the newly arrived Syrian refugees. They are in your local media, the older among them hoping perhaps for some extra help learning English in order to earn a living outside of sponsorship.  Better they meet you than the video of Jeff Rense, since you would listen to the Other as an individual, unlike Rense.

I'd hate to think of you on one side of the zoo glass, watching a family of them on the other side of the glass, unfeeling save for hate or suspicion or dread -- a  painful excitement -- in your heart. No hope, only threat. Only vigilance and exclusion, never welcome.

This video maybe ought carry a warning -- Ugly Ahead: Muslims are Fiends. Or, perhaps it could get tipped into the Garbage Pile where I think it belongs. In any event, posting this video without comment or disclaimer earns you a place on the bench.

 

Edited August 25, 2016 by william.scherk
Deleted 'Delete your account.'

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I moved this to the Garbage Pile.

I want to point out the difference between something like this--which is pure collectivist thinking--and the way Trump is developing his border and screening policies to weed out terrorists and other dangerous people, but I don't feel like engaging the fringe.

As to Jeff Rense, man it's been awhile. I used to listen to (and read) Rense once in awhile because he's quirky and I like quirky. I luvs me some conspiracy theories at times, too. It's interesting to see which ones pan out and which are paranoid exaggerations (or even fantasies). Also, Rense is one hell of news aggregator. He's also got a lot of interesting people linked to on his site ranging from wise intellectuals to outright kooks.

But he's gone over to the fanatical white power side with this one. Go to his site right now (Rense) and there's an ad right below the fold to donate to David Duke (not too far below the expose claiming the reason Hillary Clinton uses pants suits is to hide catheter tubes--I kid you not  ).

We already know the next step is "preemptive" violence against unarmed peaceful Muslims (calling it payback for the terrorists or whatever). 

One does not replace one bigoted gang soaked in the blood of innocents with another bigoted gang soaked in the blood of innocents and get to claim the mantle of reason.

Michael

[jts]

What exactly in the video do you disagree with? Set aside ad hominems against me and Jeff Rense. Let's assume I'm a very bad person. That's old and boring.

I do not hold to the idea that freedom of religion must be extended to Islam. Think logically. In a different video Nonie Darwish explained some points about Islamic countries.

1. In Islamic countries or at least the one she grew up in, you are born a Muslim. It is not a matter of choice. The law says you are automatically a Muslim by being born in the country.

2. The worst sin in Islam, according to Nonie Darwish, is to leave Islam. If you leave Islam you can legally be killed by anyone in the country. This is why Nonie Darwish will not go back to the country of her origin.

3. It is the duty of every Muslim to kill all non-Muslims unless they convert. Not every Muslim takes this duty seriously. If their numbers are few in a given locality, perhaps it is not practical for them to take this duty seriously. But when their numbers get large then they will be more inclined to take this duty seriously.

The above 3 points imply that Islam is a violation of freedom of religion and therefore should not be protected under freedom of religion.

 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

4 minutes ago, jts said:

What exactly in the video do you disagree with?

Jerry,

Everything, including the words "the" and "but."

I don't discuss much with fanatical collectivists on the right, just like I don't discuss much with collectivist radical Islamists.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

1 hour ago, william.scherk said:

This video maybe ought carry a warning -- Ugly Ahead: Muslims are Fiends. Or, perhaps it could get tipped into the Garbage Pile where I think it belongs.

William,

Oddly enough, I didn't finish reading your post before putting this thread in the Garbage Pile. I only read the start of it and decided to see the video to see what the kerfuffle was about. O got further along than you did, but after the umteenth reference to the white anglo saxon culture as opposed to, you know... them... I had to stop.

But to be complete, I did another once-over on the thread and just now saw your suggestion.

(btw - Jerry is in martyr mode right now and thinks I think he's a bad person. I don't. He's a good person. I wish I knew how to help him feel less afraid all the time.)

Michael

[jts]

Actually that question was directed to William but ...

I am shocked that being opposed to Islam is collectivist thinking. Islam is an ideology. Is being opposed to communism or Satanism collectivist thinking? Islam is an extremely dangerous ideology and people become dangerous to the degree that their put it into practice.

Perhaps Ayn Rand was doing collectivist thinking when she opposed socialism.

Every famous anti-Islam campaigner that I read or listened to makes a distinction between Islam and Muslims. Islam is an ideology; Muslims are people. I don't know why this distinction is so hard to understand.

Ali Sina grew up in an Islamic country and he describes Islam in the most extremely negative way but he wants to save Muslims from Islam.

Craig Winn says Muslims who are good Muslims are bad people, and Muslims who are good people are bad Muslims.

Nonie Darwish explains that some of the nicest people are Muslims but Islam is evil. She also says that no matter how many times she explains the distinction between Islam and Muslims there is always someone who does not understand the distinction. The same failure to understand this distinction is happening here in OL.

Islam is an ideology, not a collection of people. Thumbs down on the ideology. Why is that so hard to understand?

 

 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

1 hour ago, jts said:

Islam is an ideology, not a collection of people. Thumbs down on the ideology. Why is that so hard to understand?

Jerry,

Because the video does not compare Islam to other ideologies. Instead it compares Islam to the "white culture." 

I always learned that an ideology was a collection of ideas and ideas don't have color. They're in your head.

People have color. Collections of people have color.

And when that collection of people is paraded around as ideology, that's called collectivism. Bigotry.

I have other objections, but that's enough for now.

Keep your eyes open and watch what Donald Trump does to resolve the radical Islam problem. But don't let it break your heart because he won't do it the way Jeff Rense or David Duke want.

Trump will have the US military kill the bad guys and the government screen out the survivors from entering the US. But there's a part you probably won't like. He's including a commission of moderate Muslims devoted to reforming Islam toward modern civilization. And he's going to shove that commission in one form or another down the throats of Muslim countries that want a relationship with the US while he is president. The thing is, Trump will solve the problem. Jeff Rense and David Duke will not.

And Trump will solve it without waxing melodramatic about what an evil religion Islam is or how superior the white people are.

Michael

[Wolf DeVoon]

Mr. Scherk mentioned "the biased or mentally deficient" on OL, so I thought I'd put my hand up. I haven't seen the video, don't have enough bandwidth for that. If I understand the meaning of terms correctly, a religion qualifies as a collection of ideas. I spent time in an Islamic country, spoke to a lot of Muslim men, women, and children. JTS is correct. They are born into it involuntarily. Their lives are irrevocably shaped by it. I also have a colleague who is an apostate. It is dangerous for us to communicate, however much I admire him. Be that as it may, it occurs to me that the U.S. military will be unable to kill "the bad guys." We tried to do that in Afghanistan and Iraq and Vietnam. There is no killing that will make things better.

I wonder about the notion of the greatest threat to America in history. If I had to name one that did the most harm and continues to threaten our way of life, I'd have to say charity. Only recently has it become institutionalized as public policy. In the Gilded Age and early 20th century, it became a fashion to do good works, like Carnegie and Rockefeller. They were preceded by hundreds of charitable associations in Boston, New York, Chicago, and throughout the country in barn raisings, foundling hospitals and churches. If I had to divine the root of American charity, I'd look at our nonconformist Protestant Christianity -- that "In God We Trust" motto everyone seems cool with, as did the Pilgrims and Quakers.

Thanks for inviting me to the Garbage Pile. Islam certainly belongs here, as do all claims of benevolent edicts from outer space.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

7 hours ago, wolfdevoon said:

If I had to name one that did the most harm and continues to threaten our way of life, I'd have to say charity.

Wolf,

It's probably one of the defects of abstractions and ideology that are caucasian in essence. The problem is we're born into it involuntarily and our lives are irrevocably shaped by it. We just have to think white so it's not our fault.

   

Michael

 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

8 hours ago, wolfdevoon said:

... it occurs to me that the U.S. military will be unable to kill "the bad guys." We tried to do that in Afghanistan and Iraq and Vietnam.

Wolf,

Where on earth did you get that idea?

America didn't go into those places to get the bad guys. We went in to grease the crony government-corporate culture while saying we were after bad guys.

There's a difference between dismantling a sworn enemy's military capacity to make him stop attacking you and war for profit. Trump knows that difference. Notice that he didn't make his money from the war for profit machine. He built stuff and offered it on the open market.

Michael