do Germany and France live under socialism today?

[Wolf DeVoon]

48 minutes ago, Peter said:

Where and how many nukes should we use to make the world a better place?

Just two or three. Vatican City, Mecca, West 57th Street.

[moralist]

On ‎5‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 8:16 PM, Brant Gaede said:

Whatever his virtues--I think he has quite a few--Trumph is a big government boy, at home and abroad. What we see is what we're getting and will continue to get.

Brant, the size and growth of government could never determined by just one man. Big government is solely driven by how a critical mass of the population lives... and they are all suckling on government benefits.

This is what creates big government...

...parasites.

Greg

[Brant Gaede]

6 hours ago, moralist said:

Brant, the size and growth of government could never determined by just one man. Big government is solely driven by how a critical mass of the population lives... and they are all suckling on government benefits.

This is what creates big government...

...parasites.

Greg

If this reasoning is logically extended into the general population all you'll find are "parasites," including you. Such is the nature of the gigantic mixed economy. It has to do with the flow of money and dollars are made by the government. The better way to divide up society is between the producers and non-producers. Most government employees, no matter how hard they work, produce nothing. They also get paid much more than private workers who make the wealth they absorb. The bum on the street corner begging for money also produces nothing and also may be said to work hard, but at least he isn't the tax man. He's on a higher moral ring than the non-producing government worker, but gets the most opprobrium.

You live in a bubble of purity but the purity is purely in your head. In the real world you are simply a producer and I'd never call you a parasite. Government money, however, is the water we all bathe in. A writer writes a book and sells it to a university professor on a government salary. Dirty money? Does he tell that professor if you want my book do me a service like clean my bathroom?

--Brant

Dagny's money was no good in Galt's Gulch so she became his servant (I don't know why she suggested sewing buttons on his shirts instead of wanting to see him walk around half naked [Galt comes home from working on the power plant: "Where's my clothes?" Dagny: "I burned them. They stank and we don't have a washing machine because you couldn't get the washing machine manufacturer to go on strike!")

[moralist]

4 hours ago, Brant Gaede said:

If this reasoning is logically extended into the general population all you'll find are "parasites," including you.

Sorry, Brant... not me. I'm not a collectivist government teatsucker who needs "mommie" to take care of me. I'm an autonomous independent private sector American Capitalist who produces FAR more than I consume.

That's the secret of wealth... producing more than you consume. At 69 I'm still active in my regular business which I started from scratch 38 years ago, as well as entrepreneurial side ventures I do for the fun of it. I pay income, business, sales, and property taxes for my fair share of government and public inrastructure use.

I didn't need the government to educate me, for my education came from the real world of business. I don't need the government to employ me, because I create my own jobs. I don't need the government to feed me, for I earn the money to buy my own food and also grow my own food on my own land as well. I don't need the government to house me, for I worked to earn the money to build my own house. I don't need the government underwrite my debts, for I don't owe anyone... not even one cent. I don't need the government to indemnify me against calamities, for I don't need insurance because I have enough capital to self insure. I don't need the government to take care of my health, because I maintain my own health at my own expense.

So now... what do ALL of these activities have in common?

They are ALL individual activities independent of the government.

Ayn Rand worked to earn the capital to build this:

I worked to earn the capital to build this...

To me, Ayn Rand's words aren't just impotent virtual intellectual fantasies only to be studied and pored over like a blind bureaucratic scribe...

...they're REAL concrete ACTIONS... because I MADE them REAL.   

Greg

 

[Brant Gaede]

2 hours ago, moralist said:

Sorry, Brant... not me. I'm not a collectivist government teatsucker who needs "mommie" to take care of me. I'm an autonomous independent private sector American Capitalist who produces FAR more than I consume.

That's the secret of wealth... producing more than you consume. At 69 I'm still active in my regular business which I started from scratch 38 years ago, as well as entrepreneurial side ventures I do for the fun of it. I pay income, business, sales, and property taxes for my fair share of government and public inrastructure use.

I didn't need the government to educate me, for my education came from the real world of business. I don't need the government to employ me, because I create my own jobs. I don't need the government to feed me, for I earn the money to buy my own food and also grow my own food on my own land as well. I don't need the government to house me, for I worked to earn the money to build my own house. I don't need the government underwrite my debts, for I don't owe anyone... not even one cent. I don't need the government to indemnify me against calamities, for I don't need insurance because I have enough capital to self insure. I don't need the government to take care of my health, because I maintain my own health at my own expense.

So now... what do ALL of these activities have in common?

They are ALL individual activities independent of the government.

Ayn Rand worked to earn the capital to build this:

I worked to earn the capital to build this...

To me, Ayn Rand's words aren't just impotent virtual intellectual fantasies only to be studied and pored over like a blind bureaucratic scribe...

...they're REAL concrete ACTIONS... because I MADE them REAL.   

Greg

 

I always like reading what you substitute for arguments.

--Brant

(Your next post) Greg: That's right Brant! I don't argue. I show!

[moralist]

6 hours ago, Brant Gaede said:

I always like reading what you substitute for arguments.

--Brant

(Your next post) Greg: That's right Brant! I don't argue. I show!

You got it, Brant.

Arguments are just one pointless impotent virtual intellectual idea pitted against another pointless impotent virtual intellectual idea.

They resolve NOTHING. 

Whereas the validity of my point of view is made by the results of what I actually DO in the REAL WORLD.

Every blessing I enjoy in my life today is the result of just ONE thing... doing what's morally right.

That's God's promise which He keeps to anyone who does what's morally right... regardless of whether or not they believe in Him. God doesn't need your belief. Doing what's morally right isn't for His benefit...

...it's for your own good.

Greg

[Wolf DeVoon]

shakes head, the Holy Writ again

[Wolf DeVoon]

9 hours ago, moralist said:

Ayn Rand worked to earn the capital to build this

Shows how little you know.

[Brant Gaede]

48 minutes ago, Wolf DeVoon said:

Shows how little you know.

We know she didn't build it. Or have it built.

--Brant

[Wolf DeVoon]

23 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said:

We know she didn't build it. Or have it built.

--Brant

Was it a "grace and favor" home? - or rental?

[moralist]

40 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said:

We know she didn't build it. Or have it built.

--Brant

(shrug...) So what if she bought it with Frank.

That doesn't invalidate my point.

Greg

[moralist]

1 hour ago, Wolf DeVoon said:

shakes head, the Holy Writ again

Your secular derision of morality explains why you have f**k all to show for your life, Wolf.

Greg

[Wolf DeVoon]

58 minutes ago, moralist said:

Your secular derision of morality explains why you have f**k all to show for your life, Wolf.

Don't be a dope. I have a better property and a better house than you do. Traveled all six continents. Hired electricians by the dozen.

[Brant Gaede]

1 hour ago, Wolf DeVoon said:

Was it a "grace and favor" home? - or rental?

It was built in the 1930s for a Hollywood big shot by a famous architect. They purchased it.

--Brant

[Wolf DeVoon]

I stand corrected, several sources say Rand and her husband bought the Von Sternberg house in 1943, paid $24,000.

The Fountainhead sold 50,000 copies in the first year, so I guess that's where the dough came from. Prior to the Bobbs-Merrill deal, she had been a "reader" doing synopses of novels, $25 per book, starvation money.

[Brant Gaede]

51 minutes ago, Wolf DeVoon said:

I stand corrected, several sources say Rand and her husband bought the Von Sternberg house in 1943, paid $24,000.

The Fountainhead sold 50,000 copies in the first year, so I guess that's where the dough came from. Prior to the Bobbs-Merrill deal, she had been a "reader" doing synopses of novels, $25 per book, starvation money.

I don't know about her remuneration, but $25/book back then was a fair amount of money.

--Brant

[moralist]

1 hour ago, Wolf DeVoon said:

I have a better property and a better house than you do.

An empty baseless claim, Wolf.

Greg

[moralist]

3 hours ago, Wolf DeVoon said:

Was it a "grace and favor" home? - or rental?

That's a question a renter would ask.

Greg

[Peter]

Greg wrote: Brant, the size and growth of government could never (be) determined by just one man. Big government is solely driven by how a critical mass of the population lives... and they are all suckling on government benefits. This is what creates big government... ...parasites. end quotes

You are not JUST talking about Medicaid or Welfare recipients (the lower classes) . .  .  you are talking about folks in the 62 to 65 range (the upper classes,) and after 65 they receive Medicare and Social Security. They are not parasites or bad people. I would not mind changing the system but the people you are disparaging are good Americans.

Peter

[moralist]

1 hour ago, Peter said:

Greg wrote: Brant, the size and growth of government could never (be) determined by just one man. Big government is solely driven by how a critical mass of the population lives... and they are all suckling on government benefits. This is what creates big government... ...parasites. end quotes

You are not JUST talking about Medicaid or Welfare recipients (the lower classes) . .  .  you are talking about folks in the 62 to 65 range (the upper classes,) and after 65 they receive Medicare and Social Security. They are not parasites or bad people. I would not mind changing the system but the people you are disparaging are good Americans.

Peter

Straw man, Peter.

I'm not talking about social security. That's just people getting back their own money they paid into it after the government has devalued it with decades of inflation. The upper classes have private medical insurance.

Good Americans don't need government to be their mommie... only parasites do.

Greg

 

[Brant Gaede]

5 hours ago, moralist said:

Straw man, Peter.

I'm not talking about social security. That's just people getting back their own money they paid into it after the government has devalued it with decades of inflation. The upper classes have private medical insurance.

Good Americans don't need government to be their mommie... only parasites do.

Greg

"Thier" money was spent and gone. SS is paid by current taxes and deficit spending. SS is a giagantic de facto Ponzi . I'm on SS albeit it's modest. I have my rationalizations. Some aren't actually rationalizations but I don't bother to sort them all out. The same for Medicare. I have a much better rationalization for Medicare, at least on the face of it--that is, government has driven the cost of medicine through the roof so government gets to pay for it.

BTW, I will rip off the government any way I can, directly or through the socialistic, fascistic banking system. I only have a good relationship with my bank for practical reasons. All banks are simply extensions of the Federal Reserve. That's why bankers don't go to jail for their billions of dollars of malfeasance. That's why Goldman Sacks buys billions of dollars of Venezuelan bonds further bolstering up that tyranny way beyond that mere 2.8 billion cost (.35 on the dollar). GS and other buyers of V bonds want the V gov't to continue servicing those bonds for various funds of that type of debt get 20% of their income from the V. gov't after all such debt from other countries is conglomerated on their books for distribution to the owners of those bond funds.

And the CEO of GS says shame on Trump for his carbon footprint attitude.

--Brant

welcome to the real world

[moralist]

3 hours ago, Brant Gaede said:

"Thier" money was spent and gone. SS is paid by current taxes and deficit spending. SS is a giagantic de facto Ponzi . I'm on SS albeit it's modest. I have my rationalizations. Some aren't actually rationalizations but I don't bother to sort them all out. The same for Medicare. I have a much better rationalization for Medicare, at least on the face of it--that is, government has driven the cost of medicine through the roof so government gets to pay for it.

BTW, I will rip off the government any way I can, directly or through the socialistic, fascistic banking system. I only have a good relationship with my bank for practical reasons. All banks are simply extensions of the Federal Reserve. That's why bankers don't go to jail for their billions of dollars of malfeasance. That's why Goldman Sacks buys billions of dollars of Venezuelan bonds further bolstering up that tyranny way beyond that mere 2.8 billion cost (.35 on the dollar). GS and other buyers of V bonds want the V gov't to continue servicing those bonds for various funds of that type of debt get 20% of their income from the V. gov't after all such debt from other countries is conglomerated on their books for distribution to the owners of those bond funds.

And the CEO of GS says shame on Trump for his carbon footprint attitude.

--Brant

welcome to the real world

I have a different view on Social Security. I'm happy the government gives me back even some of my own inflated money. We don't need it so we save it up and use it to buy optional amenities. We just used it to buy a new wood stove even though our old 30+ year is in good condition.

 

It's made in Sweden and is really small (only 15" x15") and hardly takes up any space. But it has the latest in clean burn technology so it heats our whole house with just a few small chunks of wood. It's our only source of home heat and does it for nothing because We get all the free firewood we want from our local tree trimmer who would normally have to pay to haul it to the landfill. 

I also have a different view of the banking system...

I like our bank.

It cashes all my checks and their credit card is free. What more could anyone want? I basically have nothing to do with the rest of the banking system because I keep my credit card balance at zero and have no loans. So I couldn't care less if their interest rates are 1% or 100%. It doesn't matter to me what the international bankers do because I have no control over what they do and so am not responsible for their actions. However, I do have control and responsibility for my own finances which are unaffected by bankers because I only deal in cash and not in credit or debt. So as they inflate the currency I simply raise my rates.

American independence isn't just some lofty unattainable ideal that can be withheld from you by others. 

It's real for everyone who works to earn it.

Greg

 

[BaalChatzaf]

16 hours ago, Peter said:

Greg wrote: Brant, the size and growth of government could never (be) determined by just one man. Big government is solely driven by how a critical mass of the population lives... and they are all suckling on government benefits. This is what creates big government... ...parasites. end quotes

You are not JUST talking about Medicaid or Welfare recipients (the lower classes) . .  .  you are talking about folks in the 62 to 65 range (the upper classes,) and after 65 they receive Medicare and Social Security. They are not parasites or bad people. I would not mind changing the system but the people you are disparaging are good Americans.

Peter

Greg is the Only Good American.  The rest of us are all government supported parasites. 

[moralist]

 

2 hours ago, BaalChatzaf said:

Greg is the Only Good American.  The rest of us are all government supported parasites. 

I'm not the only one, Bob.

There are other good Americans who don't need your mommie government like you do.. but they're in a small minority. You belong to the overwhelming majority. That's why your liberal socialist benefits dispensing bureaucracy is so large.

Too many fat piglets sucking the teat.

Greg

 

[Wolf DeVoon]

For the record, I just looked at a pile of data, 2/3 of all government offices and structures are military, about 2 billion sq ft around the world.

It's the other way around with expenditures, 3/4 of all Federal, state, and local ($7 trillion this year) on social welfare and entitlements. So, Greg has half a point about government spending, although he won't want to admit that every dime of his lifelong income was derived from government, one way or another.