A path to undo O which is constitutional being suggested...

[GALTGULCH8]

I found this at world net daily:

http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/how-obama-can-be-stopped-in-electoral-college/

<<<"Barack Obama has not yet been re-elected president.

Yes, the election is over – but remember, a presidential election in America is not by popular vote. We vote for the candidate, but what we are really doing is voting for the electors who will meet on the Monday after the second Wednesday in December.

That is when the actual re-election of the president occurs.

Is there a way to stop this?

Yes, there is.

And the best part – this is totally constitutional.

The 12th Amendment of the Constitution as well as Article II of the Constitution govern the Electoral College.

According to the 12th Amendment, for the Electoral College to be able to select the president, it must have a quorum of two-thirds of the states voting. If enough states refuse to participate, the Electoral College will not have a quorum. If the Electoral College does not have a quorum or otherwise cannot vote or decide, then the responsibility for selecting the president and vice president devolves to the Congress.

The House of Representatives selects the president and the Senate selects the vice president.

Since the Republicans hold a majority in the House, presumably they would vote for Mitt Romney, and the Democrats in the Senate would vote for Joe Biden for vice president.

Can this work?

Sure it can.

Democrats have actually set this precedent of refusing to participate to deny Republicans a quorum. They did this in Wisconsin and in Texas. Why can’t we do this with the Electoral College?

Mitt Romney was a terrible candidate, and he will not be a great president. But he will be infinitely better than Barack Obama.

So how do we do this?

Mitt Romney carried 24 states. We need to have conservative activists from all over the nation contact the electors, the Republican Party and the secretary of state in all of these states and tell them not to participate in the Electoral College when it meets on Dec. 17.

If we can get 17 of those states (just over one-third) to refuse to participate, the Electoral College will have no quorum. Then, as the Constitution directs, the election goes to the House of Representatives.

That is how we can still pull this election out and make Mitt Romney president in January.

We need this concept shared with every tea party, liberty and patriotic group throughout the country. We have time to act, but we must pressure Republicans to do the right thing.

It does not matter who gets credit for this. The credit is not important. Using our last chance to defeat Barack Obama is important.

Far too often the Republican Party seems more interested in losing gracefully than winning and governing.

This is our last chance. We the people must contact the electors, party officials and secretaries of state from every red state and insist that they refuse to participate in the Electoral College.

We can still save America and use the Constitution to do it. But this truly is our last chance.">>>

Sounds good to me. But there will be riots in the streets if this really happens. The GOP will probably chicken out for that reason. On the other hand if they could get up the audacity to mistreat one of their own, Ron Paul, with such dismissive contempt and disrespect, maybe they would choose to alienate all those who supported Obama with their votes.

Trouble is Romney is an empty suit with no principles, no appreciation of the evil of the Federal Reserve, so we may not be much better off, just better off, not much.

[Selene]

Fascinating Gulch:

I was going to post this later tonight after checking some of the Constitutional statements that are made in it.

A...

Post Script: I will add to this later.

[jts]

Perhaps the best thing that can happen to the people of the USA is another 4 years of Obama. They refused to listen to Ron Paul. They refused to see Obama as he is. They refused to listen to reason. They refused to listen to good economists and good philosophers. So maybe they need to hit bottom. You ask: what does "hit bottom" mean?

A man refuses to acknowledge that he has a problem with alcohol. It is obvious to everyone around him. One day he is lying in a ditch in his own vomit with empty whiskey bottles beside him. He drank away his money and his job and his health. His wife changed the lock on the door. At that point he has hit bottom. Now he starts doing something about his problem with alcohol.

Maybe that's what the USA needs to do, hit bottom.

[Selene]

Perhaps the best thing that can happen to the people of the USA is another 4 years of Obama. They refused to listen to Ron Paul. They refused to see Obama as he is. They refused to listen to reason. They refused to listen to good economists and good philosophers. So maybe they need to hit bottom. You ask: what does "hit bottom" mean?

A man refuses to acknowledge that he has a problem with alcohol. It is obvious to everyone around him. One day he is lying in a ditch in his own vomit with empty whiskey bottles beside him. He drank away his money and his job and his health. His wife changed the lock on the door. At that point he has hit bottom. Now he starts doing something about his problem with alcohol.

Maybe that's what the USA needs to do, hit bottom.

Jerry:

This post of yours is correct.

Excellent argument and it looks like this will have to be the path.

A...

[Selene]

What is the Electoral College...it is a process not a place...

The meeting of the electors takes place on the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December after the presidential election. The electors meet in their respective states, where they cast their votes for President and Vice President on separate ballots. Your state’s electors’ votes are recorded on a “Certificate of Vote,” which is prepared at the meeting by the electors. Your state’s Certificates of Votes are sent to the Congress and the National Archives as part of the official records of the presidential election. See the

key dates for the 2012 election

and information about

the roles and responsibilities of state officials

and the

Congress

in the Electoral College process.

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/about.html

Who are the electors...

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/electors.html#restrictions

[Bryce]

A man refuses to acknowledge that he has a problem with alcohol. It is obvious to everyone around him. One day he is lying in a ditch in his own vomit with empty whiskey bottles beside him. He drank away his money and his job and his health. His wife changed the lock on the door. At that point he has hit bottom. Now he starts doing something about his problem with alcohol.

Or maybe he could sue the liquor store in the name of social justice.

[GALTGULCH8]

You guys make me laugh. The argument from analogy is faulty. One poor drunken fellow's plight does affect those dependent on him, his children and his wife. But to suggest that the entire society, being misguided, needs to suffer the error of choosing a leader who will lead them into you name it, disaster, Hell on earth, totalitarian dictatorship is absurd.

First of all they will not likely come to the proper conclusion that it was the fault of their own beliefs. More likely they will blame it on the free market or capitalism.

Second of all there are millions of young people below the age to vote who will be dragged into the quagmire by those who are mistaken and will have to suffer an undeserved nightmare because of the profound ignorance of the leader their equally ignorant parents chose to vote for.

Third of all it is a bottomless pit from which it would be virtually impossible to climb up out of once they realize things have gotten impossibly worse.

Not to mention they will be dragging all of us innocents along with them.

For decades I have thought that maybe people need to experience the error by choosing the likes of Nixon, Johnson, Carter, Ford, Clinton, Bush the elder, Bush the younger, Reagan, Obama but they have not learned. The power of the progressive movement and the mystic, altruist collectivist ideology has permeated the culture, the churches, the schools, the colleges and the universities, the media, Hollywood.

Ayn Rand was correct that ideas move the world and we are in a much smaller minority than we realize.

I wonder if the bad guys, who want to rid ourselves of the Electoral College, want to do so because they are more aware than we have been how we can use the Constitution and the Electoral College to salvage our current disaster as suggested in the beginning of this thread.

I do hope the Tea Party and the conservative establishment succeed in persuading the GOP in the requisite number of states to abstain from participation in the Electoral College on December 17th so that the decision is thrown into the House of Representatives when there is no quorum in the Electoral College.

[Selene]

Gulch:

You are actually arguing that the Republican's use an "extra-Constitutional" action to thwart the electorate and you are comfortable with that?

A...

[9thdoctor]

And if Ron Paul were elected, and the Democrats did the same thing?

[Selene]

And if Ron Paul were elected, and the Democrats did the same thing?

It would be just as extra-Constitutional and it would be thwarting the will of the citizenry who voted in the Presidential election.

[BaalChatzaf]

Gulch, you are delusional. 17 states will not go along with your scheme.

Forget about it. Obama is, for better or worse, the choice of over 50 percent of those who voted and bypassing their will however "constitutional" is a course best not embarked on. If the Republicans can do it to the Democrats then in a future election the Democrats can do it to the Republicans. Do you want to turn the governance of this country into a meelee?

The problem is convincing the voters of this nation not to go along the path of a neo fascist welfare state. Your strategy does not accomplish this end.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[GALTGULCH8]

We all are supposed to share a vision of a truly free society. That is a society in which individuals are free to pursue their own happiness. Is there really time for Ayn Rand's ideas to spread given that the entire establishment is arrayed against her ideas?

Ba'al, Thanks for the ad hominem argument right up front. I actually doubt that the GOP has the courage and determination to pull this off. The idea does not originate with me obviously if you go to the link you will discover whose idea it is.

Our country is being "transformed" into a Marxist socialist utopia now under the direction of the president and with the help of the Supreme Court and the hoards of progressives and socialists and assorted leftists who are indoctrinating college students across the country. What can be done to slow the process down?

You are worrying about what might happen and I am worrying about what is happening!

Whether we like it or not there will be pressure put upon the GOP in all the states in which Romney won in an attempt to get enough of them to refuse to attend the 17 December meeting of the Electoral College. WIthout a quorum the decision ought to move to the House of Representatives, controlled by the GOP. If they were smart they would choose Ron Paul and the Federal Reserve owners would arrange to assassinate him before he puts them out of business. Instead they would choose Romney because they don't know any better. The Federal Reserve will be safe because of Romney's naivete and ignorance of its evil nature and the damage it has done to our economy and our dollar.

But at least the "transformation" of our country into socialism will be postponed and we may have time to enlighten the next generations.

I agree it is just a stop gap measure but a necessary one, an opportunity to delay and to give us time.

Don't you realize how dangerous our "re elected" leader is?

[jts]

The voters return to their folly as a dog returns to his vomit. (paraphrasing a line from Proverbs.)

[Selene]

And, of course, the end justifies the means, right Gulch?

[GALTGULCH8]

What's wrong with the (Constitutional) means?

Do you really think that the country would be better off in the long run if Obama is chosen by the Electoral College to "serve" a second term?

Have you been watching the National Geographic special on Doomsday preppers? They expect civil unrest and economic collapse thanks to Obama's policies.

Better get ready.

O would take advantage of the collapse of his own causation to accrue more powers by the central government.

Its going to happen no matter who is president. The question is whether we become a fascist dictatorship or remain free.

[9thdoctor]

At 50 seconds in, "get in crash positions"...

[BaalChatzaf]

What's wrong with the (Constitutional) means?

Do you really think that the country would be better off in the long run if Obama is chosen by the Electoral College to "serve" a second term?

The thing will be done according to Law. Do you have a problem with that?

Ba'al Chatzaf

[GALTGULCH8]

Ba'al,

According to the U. S. Constitution the eligibility requirement reads as follows:

"No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

O is not a natural born Citizen since his father was not an American citizen rather a subject of the British being a Kenyan citizen. The issue of O's eligibility is in question.

That is according to the Law and the Constitution. Do you have a problem with that?

Gulch

[BaalChatzaf]

Ba'al,

According to the U. S. Constitution the eligibility requirement reads as follows:

"No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

O is not a natural born Citizen since his father was not an American citizen rather a subject of the British being a Kenyan citizen. The issue of O's eligibility is in question.

That is according to the Law and the Constitution. Do you have a problem with that?

Gulch

The courts have considered this and have judged O to be qualified to hold the office. The courts determine the action of the law. Not you. Not me.

This crackpot claim that Obama is not an American Citizen is becoming rather tiresome. He is an American citizen born to an American women in Hawaii, U.S. territory. That is IT.

Your talmudic nit picking of the constitution is of no effect.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[jts]

His Messiahship, Obama, is a very remarkable person. He was born in 2 places. There is a birth certificate that proves he was born in Hawaii and a birth certificate that proves he was born in Kenya. Both documents are accessible on the internet for everyone to see. Imagine that, born in 2 places, thousands of miles apart.

[GALTGULCH8]

Ba'al,

you should be ashamed of yourself to assert that "the courts determine the action of the law" after all there may be children listening here. Haven't you heard of "nullification?" In a society of free people, meaning free individuals, each of us is sovereign and can use his or her own judgment to determine whether a law or a court decision makes sense or is in violation or in keeping with the rights of Man.

The Courts are composed of people who often have made ill considered opinions. In addition they are political appointees and despite their lifetime tenure have a certain loyalty to political ideology or party.

Read Levy's The Dirty Dozen to learn of a dozen such cases in which decisions of the Supreme Court have extended the power of the central government beyond the limits the Founders wisely enshrined in the Constitution.

You make it sound as if we should abandon the use of our own judgment in our reading of the Constitution or our acceptance of judicial decisions. If we all did that the country would be surely doomed.

Check your premises! Some wise person once said, more than once.

[Selene]

Gulch:

Do you "hear" yourself?

You whine about outcomes that exist.

I respect what you have achieved in your life. However, you truly need to accept reality. The populace has spoken. Loudly and clearly.

We, as individuals, have to accept that voice.

In my, certainly un-humble opinion, need to either, withdraw, or, accept the path that our fellow citizen's have decided.

Check your premises, my friend, your tax dollars support the system...withdrawal, at this point, is a logical conclusion.

A...

[9thdoctor]

At 50 seconds in, "get in crash positions"...

Is Obama’s reelection really so different from Clinton in 1996? We had the government shut-down right around the same time, similar to the ‘fiscal cliff’ we’re looking at now. There was a Republican house in place to keep new bad stuff from being passed, like today. You could have made a better case for pulling this Electoral College stunt then, since Clinton was never elected by a popular vote majority. The big difference is Obamacare, there was a chance to repeal it with this last election, before implementation.

The scene from Airplane! shows the passengers getting into post crash, carnage positions before any crash has occurred, which really captures the absurdity of this proposal. If, in 1864 the southern states were still recognized as part of the Electoral College, this kind of move would have made sense to protest (if probably not prevent) the re-election of Lincoln, who was actively leading a war against them. Can anyone think of another time in our history when it would have been called for?

[GALTGULCH8]

Adam,

So many of you are ganging up on me that i am reminded of the movie "the Body Snatchers."

"you truly need to accept reality. The populace has spoken."

We are not supposed to be living in a democracy where the majority rules. Rather it is supposed to be a limited Constitutional Republic.

We can certainly use the existing laws to influence the outcome of an election which was rife with fraud.

Now to enjoy the holiday with my family.

[GALTGULCH8]

If you don't realize that O intends to transform America into a form of tyranny. He has already approved of force to be used against citizens for example in his misnamed affordable patient care act.

If there were a way for the GOP to be influenced to prevent there being a quorum at the Electoral College and then choosing Ron Paul to be president in the House of Representatives I would rejoice.

I expect this will not happen because those in power in the GOP and most of the Congressmen would not be willing to listen to reason but it is still worth a try.

I anticipate that only a handful of those here would agree with this tactic. Most would be like the militia leaders who were in charge of men in towns around Charlestown when the Battle of Bunker Hill took place who did not make any effort to support those fighting the British with ammunition or men.