Fukushima is or isn't a threat to the Northern Hemisphere, to begin with...


GALTGULCH8

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If you google Fukushima reactor #4 you might be treated to the fact that it is filled with spent fuel rods containing radioactive material, Cesium 137, which has a half life of 30,000 years or so, which are about to be released into the atmosphere, perhaps that might require the assistance of another earthquake though.

<<<" were another decent-sized earthquake to hit the stricken plant before thousands of highly radioactive spent fuel rods are properly secured, we could see the explosion and diffusion into the North Pacific's winds and ocean currents of 10 times the radioactive material emitted by the Chernobyl disaster - rendering much of Asia, North America and many other corners of the globe uninhabitable for centuries.">>>

The source of a map which purports to show how a radioactive cloud would find its way to California in ten hours might be a hoax dreamed up by antinuclear activists who have a long half life all their own.

<The total number of spent fuel rods across all six reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi site is 11,421.

Learn more: http://www.naturalne...l#ixzz29qVy14Ri>

So should we take advantage of the panic to purchase condos in the Aleutian Island chain which are being virtually given away since they will be uninhabitable soon?

Anyone know the truth on this one. I fear you will all think I am gone paranoid again. First it was a totalitarian dictatorship here in AmeriKa, now radioactive grandchildren forever. What difference does it make if Bernanke keeps those printing presses rolling to infinity if the Earth will be uninhabitable shortly?

Will the Southern Hemisphere really be safe for long if the radioactive cloud swirls over the Northern Hemisphere first?

Or is the supposition that the whole thing is a hoax, a hoax to prevent the panic which would ensue?

As I understand it the Japanese haven't been able to design a robot which can withstand the intense radioactivity of the nuclear power plant in which the spent fuel rods reside and which is about to meltdown any moment. If there are 1,535 spent fuel rods can they be loaded into a space shuttle and launched into the sun? Who is willing to operate the suicide mission fork lift?

I will volunteer if I am promised a quick death before the radiation sickness diarrhea begins!

For the grandchildren!

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Hiroshima 66 years later vs Detroit 66 years later

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We

all know that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were destroyed in August 1945 after the explosion of atomic bombs.

However, we know little about the progress made by the people of that land during the past 65 years.

HIROSHIMA

- 66 YEARS LATER

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Detroit 66 years after Hiroshima

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What has caused more long term destruction? Nuclear weapons or U.S. Government Welfare programs created to buy the votes of those who want someone to take care of them?

Japan does not have a welfare system.

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That is a conspiracy theory website. Ignore everything on all conspiracy theory websites. They would have you believe that the world is Fuch'ed. The truth is radiation is good. We need radiation for vitamin D.

If you want to know the truth about anything, find out from government. Whatever government says is true. Government says the radiation is within safety. If any radiation gets above the safety limit, no problem, government raises the safety limit. No matter how high the radiation gets, government can raise the safety level above that and then it is safe.

18,000 dead so far and millions at risk? So what? What the h... is the big deal? Drugs kill more than that and FDA says they are safe and effective.

Besides, everybody dies anyway, so what's the difference? Objectivism says life is not about not dying.

Anyone who is opposed to things in our environment that harm our health and kill us is an environmentalist. An environmentalist is a person who advocates sacrificing man to the environment. We need things in our environment that harm our health and kill us in order to enhance our lives. That's simple logic. Do you think when Ayn Rand smoked, she was being stupid? No, she smoked in order to poison herself in order to enhance her life.

So what if the world is Fuch'ed? You can't do anything about it, so enjoy it.

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"which has a half life of 30,000 years or so"

That's but half the story. The danger of a radioactive substance is measured by not one but two numbers: the initial amount of substance and the half life.

The funny thing is that news reports just tell you the half life, and -- given a fixed initial amount of radioactive material -- the longer the half life the *less* dangerous it is.

Take an extreme case, a common building brick. It contains some radioactive isotopes, as evidence by the increased activity (above background) of a Geiger counter brought nearby. The quantity of these isotopes is minute and has a half life of millions of years, meaning the radioactivity is being doled out very slowly.

About Selene's pictures: talk about a picture not being an argument. The radiation damage to Japanese due to Hiroshima was very real. You’ll never see them in pictures today because they died prematurely.

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Hormesis means radiation, to a point, will reduce overall cancer deaths in a population. That radiation level is much higher than found on any livable elevation's naturally occurring background radiation. Your getting cancer chances are greater if you live at sea level than if you live in Denver. A Taiwanese apartment building inadvertently made with radioactive material significantly drove down the amount of cancer suffered by those who lived there. (I don't have the primary source for this.)

--Brant

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talk about a picture not being an argument. The radiation damage to Japanese due to Hiroshima was very real. You’ll never see them in pictures today because they died prematurely.

Mark:

Actually, there were a number of people who survived both blasts, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Many of them lived into their eighties (80's). I believe the last dual survivor passed away about five (5) years ago.

The point of the pictures was clear. You can rebuild successfully even at ground zero. However, you chose to selectively distort the message.

No biggie.

A-Bomb Adam...

Post Script: I would have used them against the Soviet Union and saved millions of lives. I would have used them against China and saved 60, 000, 000 million lives.

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A Taiwanese apartment building inadvertently made with radioactive material significantly drove down the amount of cancer suffered by those who lived there. (I don't have the primary source for this.)

Hands broken, Brant?

I found a long, poorly-sourced article from the fabulist Ann Coulter. Here's what she said, in piece republished at Human Events:

In 1983, a series of apartment buildings in Taiwan were accidentally constructed with massive amounts of cobalt 60, a radioactive substance. After 16 years, the buildings’ 10,000 occupants developed only five cases of cancer. The cancer rate for the same age group in the general Taiwanese population over that time period predicted 170 cancers.

The people in those buildings had been exposed to radiation nearly five times the maximum “safe” level according to the U.S. government. But they ended up with a cancer rate 96 percent lower than the general population.

Massive amounts. 10,000 occupants. 5 times safe. 96 percent. Blah.

Or, a report from Wikipedia that does contain sources (which I leave in):

1982 – Radioactive steel scavenged from a nuclear reactor was melted into rebar and used in the construction of apartment buildings in northern Taiwan, mostly in Taipei, from 1982 through 1984. Over 2,000 apartment units and shops were suspected as having been built with the materials.[15] At least 10,000 people are known to have been exposed to long-term low-level irradiation as a result, with at least 40 deaths due to cancer.[16] In 1985, the Taiwanese Atomic Energy Commission covered up the discovery of high levels of radiation in an apartment building by blaming a dentist operating an imaging machine. However, in the summer of 1992, a utility worker for the Taiwanese state-run electric utility Taipower brought a Geiger counter to his apartment to learn more about the device, and discovered that his apartment was contaminated.[16] Despite awareness of the problem, owners of some of the buildings known to be contaminated have continued to rent apartments out to tenants (in part because selling the units is illegal), and as of at least 2003 and likely to the present, no coordinated effort has been made to track down the remaining affected structures. The Taiwan AEC has harassed medical researchers looking into the consequences.[16] Some researchers from Taiwan claimed that the gamma rays from the cobalt-60 had a beneficial effect upon the health of the tenants,[17][18] but their results proved to be based on methodological errors[19][20]

But I read something somewhere. Blah. Didn't check. Hoo haw.

Here is a report from the Taipei Times (cited above at supra note 16):

A five-year study of the incidence of disease among residents of radiation-contaminated buildings was recently completed, showing that the possibility of chromosome aberration -- damage to DNA -- was proportional to long-term exposure to low-dose radiation.

From November 1995 to June 2000, a research team at National Yang Ming University ... kept track of more than 4,100 sample people who once lived in buildings that had been constructed in Taipei City between 1982 and 1983 using radioactive steel reinforcing bars.

A high incidence of diverse cancers was discovered among samples taken from the group.

The researchers said that cancer could be induced by various factors, including personal lifestyle and environmental and occupational conditions. Exposure to radiation exceeding safety limits is also a factor that deserves close attention, they said.

"We found that DNA damage and chromosome aberration was closely related to samples' long-term exposure to low-dose radiation," Chang Wu-shou (張武修), leader of the research team, told the Taipei Times.

The 4,100 sample patients, who have been receiving treatment at Taipei Municipal Jen-ai Hospital, are among some 7,800 residents recorded by the Taipei City Government as victims of radiation contamination.

Edited by william.scherk
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Bleh

Try checking the link in my previous post. I worked for 15 years on nuclear soil gauges which contained cesium 137 and americium 214/ beryllium sources and was required to take yearly radiation safety courses. I also several times attended health physics lectures on radiation safety at Lawrence Livermore Labs and other places in the bay area in the early 80's where I first learned about the hormesis theory concerning the effects of various levels of radiation exposure. It is supported by a great deal of evidence, including long term studies of people living in Hiroshima and Nagasaki during the bombings there and a couple of places in the world that have been settled for many generations but have background radiation levels perhaps a 100 times greater than normal levels. The hormesis effect is pretty much accepted except where jobs and reputations depend on not accepting it.

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Mark:

Actually, there were a number of people who survived ...

Actually? As anyone can read I didn't say no one survived the blast or that no one prospered afterwards. However, many Japanese who weren't killed outright did suffer severe radiation poisoning and subsequently died of it.

By the way, at least two of 11 American POWs killed in the bombing -- including Normand Brissette & Ralph Neal -- were among these victims.

Getting nuked is not the end of the world, as Cold War would have it, but to read Selene's posts ... well, the Chimp's sarcasm said it best.

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talk about a picture not being an argument. The radiation damage to Japanese due to Hiroshima was very real. You’ll never see them in pictures today because they died prematurely.

Mark:

Actually, there were a number of people who survived both blasts, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Many of them lived into their eighties (80's). I believe the last dual survivor passed away about five (5) years ago.

The point of the pictures was clear. You can rebuild successfully even at ground zero. However, you chose to selectively distort the message.

No biggie.

A-Bomb Adam...

Post Script: I would have used them against the Soviet Union and saved millions of lives. I would have used them against China and saved 60, 000, 000 million lives.

Why didn't you?

--Brant

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A Taiwanese apartment building inadvertently made with radioactive material significantly drove down the amount of cancer suffered by those who lived there. (I don't have the primary source for this.)

Hands broken, Brant?

I found a long, poorly-sourced article from the fabulist Ann Coulter. Here's what she said, in piece republished at Human Events:

In 1983, a series of apartment buildings in Taiwan were accidentally constructed with massive amounts of cobalt 60, a radioactive substance. After 16 years, the buildings’ 10,000 occupants developed only five cases of cancer. The cancer rate for the same age group in the general Taiwanese population over that time period predicted 170 cancers.

The people in those buildings had been exposed to radiation nearly five times the maximum “safe” level according to the U.S. government. But they ended up with a cancer rate 96 percent lower than the general population.

Massive amounts. 10,000 occupants. 5 times safe. 96 percent. Blah.

Or, a report from Wikipedia that does contain sources (which I leave in):

1982 – Radioactive steel scavenged from a nuclear reactor was melted into rebar and used in the construction of apartment buildings in northern Taiwan, mostly in Taipei, from 1982 through 1984. Over 2,000 apartment units and shops were suspected as having been built with the materials.[15] At least 10,000 people are known to have been exposed to long-term low-level irradiation as a result, with at least 40 deaths due to cancer.[16] In 1985, the Taiwanese Atomic Energy Commission covered up the discovery of high levels of radiation in an apartment building by blaming a dentist operating an imaging machine. However, in the summer of 1992, a utility worker for the Taiwanese state-run electric utility Taipower brought a Geiger counter to his apartment to learn more about the device, and discovered that his apartment was contaminated.[16] Despite awareness of the problem, owners of some of the buildings known to be contaminated have continued to rent apartments out to tenants (in part because selling the units is illegal), and as of at least 2003 and likely to the present, no coordinated effort has been made to track down the remaining affected structures. The Taiwan AEC has harassed medical researchers looking into the consequences.[16] Some researchers from Taiwan claimed that the gamma rays from the cobalt-60 had a beneficial effect upon the health of the tenants,[17][18] but their results proved to be based on methodological errors[19][20]

But I read something somewhere. Blah. Didn't check. Hoo haw.

Here is a report from the Taipei Times (cited above at supra note 16):

A five-year study of the incidence of disease among residents of radiation-contaminated buildings was recently completed, showing that the possibility of chromosome aberration -- damage to DNA -- was proportional to long-term exposure to low-dose radiation.

From November 1995 to June 2000, a research team at National Yang Ming University ... kept track of more than 4,100 sample people who once lived in buildings that had been constructed in Taipei City between 1982 and 1983 using radioactive steel reinforcing bars.

A high incidence of diverse cancers was discovered among samples taken from the group.

The researchers said that cancer could be induced by various factors, including personal lifestyle and environmental and occupational conditions. Exposure to radiation exceeding safety limits is also a factor that deserves close attention, they said.

"We found that DNA damage and chromosome aberration was closely related to samples' long-term exposure to low-dose radiation," Chang Wu-shou (張武修), leader of the research team, told the Taipei Times.

The 4,100 sample patients, who have been receiving treatment at Taipei Municipal Jen-ai Hospital, are among some 7,800 residents recorded by the Taipei City Government as victims of radiation contamination.

Bill, I'm glad you have enough time on your hands for this sort of thing.

I don't. Not now.

--Brant

about hormesis . . .

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There was an update on www.beforeitsnews.com which claimed that there was a further meltdown in #2 and #4 with exposure of the fuel rods to the air. It claims that there are tons of radioactive plutonium in the pool which has not vaporized and is windborne.

Is 30 years a more innocuous half life than one which is longer?

here is a link:

http://tinyurl.com/9hj2d2n

Is it conceivable that hundreds of tons of plutonium could be dispersed so widely that it becomes innocuous? I thought that even one atom of plutonium was enough to kill a person.

There doesn't appear to be anything one can do to prepare for this other than wearing a mask and carrying an umbrella and a geiger counter , stocking up on dehydrated food not yet exposed to the fallout as well as uncontaminated water.

No discussion of this in the media yet.

Good luck.

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I came across this rather thorough discussion. The MSM appears to be keeping quiet on this Fukushima catastrophe. The link includes a video by Helen Caldecutt who plans to move to the Southern Hemisphere with her family if the water leaks out of the cooling pool in reactor #4. She points out that a tiny fraction of a gram of Plutonium is carcinogenic.

Is it really true that the circulation of air in the atmosphere does not mix between the northern and the southern hemispheres?

I will explore the job opportunities in Chile.

http://tinyurl.com/8zavuwk

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talk about a picture not being an argument. The radiation damage to Japanese due to Hiroshima was very real. You’ll never see them in pictures today because they died prematurely.

Mark:

Actually, there were a number of people who survived both blasts, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Many of them lived into their eighties (80's). I believe the last dual survivor passed away about five (5) years ago.

The point of the pictures was clear. You can rebuild successfully even at ground zero. However, you chose to selectively distort the message.

No biggie.

A-Bomb Adam...

Post Script: I would have used them against the Soviet Union and saved millions of lives. I would have used them against China and saved 60, 000, 000 million lives.

So, you would have nuked the Soviet Union and China in order to save lives? Just how many Soviet and Chinese citizens would you be prepared to kill or horribly maim in order to carry out this humanitarian intervention? Where in hell do you think you have the right to murder innocent human beings, no matter what the supposed justification? To paraphrase Ayn Rand, "Men's lives are not yours to dispose of!".

The bitter reality is that the people in the upper echelons of government, the politicians and bureaucrats entrusted with making these decisions, are not known for their intelligence, wisdom, compassion, or concern for human life and human liberties. For the most part, they tend to be sociopathic personalities with a lust for power and no greater purpose in life other than to dominate and control their subjects. As such, there are two insurmountable problems with the scenario you have posed:

1) The knowledge problem. Government officials do not have the knowledge or foresight to be able to accurately predict the future or to anticipate a future holocaust, or to know how to prevent a holocaust should they be able to accurately antipate one. Governments are as incompetent in this area as in every other area.

2) The incentive problem. This is an even more serious problem. Even if they were somehow to possess the foresight to predict and to be able to formulate a plan to prevent a holocaust, governments in general have no incentive to do so. Governments are as a general rule not the least bit interested in saving human lives, certainly not the lives of civilians in enemy nations. Their main interest is and has always been in the expansion of their own power, which is often achieved by killing huge numbers of people. The US government is no exception to this rule.

3) Humanitarian justifications are always used for every military intervention. It will not do to admit that the purpose of a bombing campaign that will kill thousands of innocent people is to establish a government's military influence in a region. This doesn't sound good and will not generate the support of the citizenry. So these interventions are always claimed to be done for the purpose of saving lives. These claims are always lies.

Martin

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http://tinyurl.com/8zavuwk

What we have here is a nuclear disaster without a nuclear war. The effects will not just create a dead zone around the Fukushima plant in Japan. This has the potential to spread beyond Japan and there are signs that it already has done so. Fish and seals found along the west coast of Alaska and the United States are found with signs of nuclear radiation lesions. Fallout has already spread across the US.

One millionth of a gram of Plutonium can cause cancer if ingested or inhaled.

There are over one thousand tons of nuclear fuel rods in the cooling pool in reactor number four which is sinking and tilting and will eventually lose the cooling water exposing all those rods to the atmosphere as the roof is already gone. This will not remain a local phenomenon limited to the Fukushima region of Japan.

Ignore this at your peril.

Listen to the warnings of Helen Caldicott to be found in the videos if you scroll down: http://tinyurl.com/8zavuwk

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http://tinyurl.com/8zavuwk

What we have here is a nuclear disaster without a nuclear war. The effects will not just create a dead zone around the Fukushima plant in Japan. This has the potential to spread beyond Japan and there are signs that it already has done so. Fish and seals found along the west coast of Alaska and the United States are found with signs of nuclear radiation lesions. Fallout has already spread across the US.

One millionth of a gram of Plutonium can cause cancer if ingested or inhaled.

There are over one thousand tons of nuclear fuel rods in the cooling pool in reactor number four which is sinking and tilting and will eventually lose the cooling water exposing all those rods to the atmosphere as the roof is already gone. This will not remain a local phenomenon limited to the Fukushima region of Japan.

Ignore this at your peril.

Listen to the warnings of Helen Caldicott to be found in the videos if you scroll down: http://tinyurl.com/8zavuwk

Chernobyl was worse. There was no cancer epidemic in Europe outside of the Ukraine

Ba'al Chatzaf

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"Chernobyl was worse."

Ba'al,

Why do I always get the impression from your posts that you haven't even read the post I linked to. if you did read most if not all of the links i drew your attention to you would not have come to the conclusion summed up in your statement that Chernobyl was worse.

The Fukushima disaster is ongoing and given that the technology to stop it does not exist, will go on spreading across the world whether the governments care to acknowledge it or not.

We are talking about particles which have a variety of half lifes so they will continue to irradiate for decades or even centuries whether they are in your body yet or not.

At least Chernobyl has been contained with a shield of concrete. The Fukushima nuclear power plants are melting down, the spent fuel rods are being cooled but the pools are going to crack at which point the rods are open to the atmosphere and they heat up, burn and give off tons of particles which are carried by the winds in our direction. Caldicott has said she will then move her family to the Southern Hemisphere.

I appreciate your responding but I fail to understand your reasoning.

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At least Chernobyl has been contained with a shield of concrete. The Fukushima nuclear power plants are melting down, the spent fuel rods are being cooled but the pools are going to crack at which point the rods are open to the atmosphere and they heat up, burn and give off tons of particles which are carried by the winds in our direction. Caldicott has said she will then move her family to the Southern Hemisphere.

I appreciate your responding but I fail to understand your reasoning.

The sacarphagus at Cherynobyl is crumbling and disintegrating and the area around Chernobyl is still "hot".

You might want to see if you are starting with a set of facts or merely your own (sometimes bizzaar() opinions.

Ba'al Chatzaf

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Ba'al,

I don't really want to argue with you about this. I am not surprised that the Chernobyl situation is worsening too. My impression as someone whose understanding of many things including nuclear physics and the dangers of radiation is naturally limited is that whatever products of the earthquake and tsunami damage in Fukushima are finding their way beyond the Japanese territory via the winds and the waves to our shores. I imagine there may as well be radiation in the parts within the vehicles shipped into our markets and in the tuna in the little cans on our supermarket shelves. I shudder at the prospect of our children and grandchildren setting off Geiger counters revealing that they have inhaled or ingested one or more of the long list of radioactive particles or elements of which Helen Caldicott speaks.

It is disconcerting that the establishment chooses to keep the details from the public, no doubt so as not to cause a panic, after all there is precious little one can do to stop the influx.

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wiki says:

"There were about 25 workers from Los Alamos National Laboratory who inhaled a considerable amount of plutonium dust during 1940s; according to the hot-particle theory, each of them has a 99.5% chance of being dead from lung cancer by now, but there has not been a single lung cancer among them."[97][98]

I understand that wiki is not a reliable source of information and this might be a g**d*** lie.

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I found this reply to a link to a post about the Fukushima nuclear power plant status of reactor number four which has the elevated coolant pool which is going to leak someday...

I am not saying that this source is at all credible but the poster says he worked in a nuclear power plant so who knows:

<<<"Submitted by wicked93gs on Wed, 10/17/2012 - 01:47. Permalink

Fearmongering is right. I actually work in nuclear power plants..even if the water in the spent fuel pool was drained it would not contaminate the world.

There is a huge difference between radiation and contamination. If the water was drained it would cause anyone within a few hundred feet to die within hours from radiation poisoning....beyond that it would have no effect from the radiation.

Neutrons are blocked by water and concrete...without water the concrete would still prevent any neutrons from killing anyone outside the plant. Now the water itself would pose a great contamination risk...since it would drain who knows where, but even so it would have no real effect beyond Japan.

..sure background radiation would rise...but not enough to measurably shorten anyones life beyond a few hundred mile radius.

Also one other thing of note...once five years has passed since the crises those fuel rods no longer pose a threat...they will have cooled down and no longer produce neutrons...they will still produce alpha, beta and gamma...but those will never make it past the walls">>>

What a relief! Now I can go back to worrying about Obama winning and transforming America into a socialist totalitarian dictatorship, unless enough of us vote for Gary Johnson so the Libertarian Party becomes a third major party in 2016 and educates the electorate at last overwhelming the public school indoctrination of the populace at last.

Pleasant dreams!

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