The Price of Honesty


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... or socialism ... or whatever you want to believe... You can even justify looting as pre-emptive retaliation against someone who is not likely to share. Honestly, I believe that the video shows exactly what it intends, nothing more or less: reciprocity is inherent in human nature. We trust others back who trust us first.

That said, it is a gambit in The Prisoners' Dilemma to reward someone twice who betrays you once in an attempt to change their behavior. In a way, the fisherman did that with the hoodlum, by pointing out that the police offered a much better outcome than the fisherman himself would offer.

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I think showing that humans are generally capable of peaceful coexistence supports libertarianism because it is without force that these good-spirited acts happen. We don't need to force people to contribute to society if it causes much more harm in overall productivity.

The collectivist position is that equality is more important than freedom, but this video shows us that even when people are free to steal, they usually wont. The message to a collectivist is that the cost of forced equality is too much to justify when you consider that the force is largely unnecessary.

A point for liberty without even getting into the ethics.

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  • 3 weeks later...

view my post on pure objectivism working.. and the rule of law..

i didnt actually watch the video.. to be perfectly fucking honest..

but honestly.. lol.. i do not give much of a shit about ANY form of self sacrifice for others.. especially outside my own family.. which is my personal self interest choice to hold them in higher esteem..

so if honesty is going to get me into a place where my own goals are lowered for the sake of pleasing another, i wont do it...

if somebody comes in with a gun and asks you wehre your mother is.. will you tell them out of honesty?? i think not..

Ayn Rand even said somewhere that you can take things she says that you like and use them, and things which you dont like and tosss them out..

i personally have no interest in any self sacrifice for teh good of anyone outsid emyself and my family as i have mentioned..

so therefore.. i hold the virtue of honesty to be a bit different..

i am actually somewhat of an extremist objectivist, perhaps more than Rand herself hah..

instead of honesty in general.. i would say.. personal honesty,.. honesty to oneself.. is a virtue.. in other words.. realism.. facing reality.. and not denying what is staring you in the face.. that is MY definition of honesty..

i do not agree with rands assertations against con-men..

i have no problem with con men.. i made a post on another forum about the purpose of "evil" or in the sense being evil as anything which hurts another life..

the purpose of evil, is like the purpose of a harsh winter, the purpose of social darwinism istelf.. to weed out the weak.. and keep the strong.. for an overall betterment of life itself.. that which is incapable of sustaining its own life and self interest.. something will come and weed it out.. such is the nature of old age and death..

i am saying this is neitehr "bad nor good" really.. but simply is what it is..

so if you are stupid enough to get trapped by a con man.. and if the con man is smart enough to get away with it..

then it is what it is..

if you wish to be a con man.. and con others and they are dumb enough to fall for it.. and you are smart enough to get awy with it.. good for you.. just know this is still not a highlly rational model of self interst.. because it builds no other virtues for youreslf.. and is a largely unsustainable model of long term living and prosperity for youreslf especially since you will create mass enemies which will be looking to take you out

if you see my post on does pure objectivism work.. you can see that thinking from a PURELY selfish perspective.. works for society.. as long as you do not forget it in the mass picture.. the rule of law.. etc.. i go into it in that post there

so even initiation of force is not "evil" i believe simply because it goes against others.. but because it through self interest of everbody in society itself.. will bring you far more trouble than good..

plus for teh trouble it brings you is not worth it even if you rob somebody.. because ultimately your happiness does not come from hurting others.. but in gaining for youreslf.. so it morally objectively makes no sense to hurt others for no rason if it brings no real personal gain.. in the end, simple whim gratification brings no long term happiness.. as well as hurting innocents, cooperatives, and non enemies, and members of our own "tribe" per se.... in our minds.. i believe we are automatically programmed against that for the survival of our own species.. and therefore you will probably be plagued with guilt and bad feelings afterwards.. definitely not worth it.. and if you do not have this part of your brain working.. our rational self intersted society has places to hunt down and put people like you...

so if you rob somebody, gaining for yourself, you will likely bring more trouble for yourself than it is worth.. assuming social law is rational and functional.. as i put in my post on pure objectivism.. if it is not.. then your robbing someone is simply a test of the weakness of the law.. and teh weakness of others self interest.. so in terms of social darwinism.. it is justifiable.. if you can 100% get away with it bringing no trouble onto yourself.. and if htat part of your brain of caring for your tribe is not working.. and even then it is not exactly a sustainable business model, or a building of any virtue or long term progress towards your happiness in life.. basically for the most part, the cost-benefit analisys is way off for it to be rational self interest

if you rob somebody who is very rich.. and it is worth teh tradeoff of cost-beneifit.. then that rich person failed the test, as well as society.. because they are responsible as well for protecting themselves and their riches through rational self interst.. and you prodded their ewakness.. and your bad feelings do not count out the benefit.. well.. shit.. you got away with it.. sucks for them..

anyway.. so much for honesty and self interst..



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