Love in Bloom

[Victor Pross]

(Note from Administrator: This post has been moved to here from another thread. It used to be here.)

Damage,

Do you know the sounds Charlie Brown's teacher makes when she speaks? That's what I heard. This argument has gone full circle.

But now I am interested in reading YOUR free and independent thoughts on the subject of this thread...Biddle and war and such. We all are.

Victor

Edit: I like the way Damage cheery-picks in his post--bypassing my more salient points--and he merely states the opposite of what I had taken pains to argue out on lesser issues. I say 'black' he says 'no, white.' Wow, what an arguement. Where are his writings on war and individual rights...things like this!?

[CNA]

Damage,

As I took it, not how you or anyone else took it, you took a shot at me with your reference to my imaginary sword and started swinging at invisible ghosts. So I responded to you. As I said, this is between you and Victor. You do not know me nor have you read a great majority of my posts nor have you talked with me in private so your mysticism shot was your jumping to conclusions. Re-read your post again.

That thread and your behavior was as plain as day to me. I did NOT ask you to post to that thread and asking you for YOUR thoughts. It was later on after your shot at Victor was made known that I asked you for your thoughts and a more thorough explanation. BUT your very first post was obvious and you took a shot at Victor, supposedly your friend, and implying his so-called cynicism, anything to implant a doubt. But in the same sentence, you contradicted yourself with social meta crap and your not wanting to be viewed by others as being a cynic. You then later gave more of an explanation and I recognized that explanation.

As I said, Damage, this is between you and Victor and your so-called friendship, not me and Damage and Victor. I wash my hands of this bullshit drama that is being rehashed now. It is old news. It has been dealt with and have moved on. I will not keep rehashing it up. Let's keep this to the current issue at hand and what everyone else is talking about which is the subject of War. I have already expressed my thoughts regarding this issue over the past 4 or 5 posts or however many it has been so far.

Angie

[Victor Pross]

(Note from Administrator: This post has been moved to here from another thread. It used to be here. Obviously, the reference at the start of the post below refers to the original thread.)

Regarding the subject matter of this thread—Biddle, war and innocents in war time—all of it, don’t hold your breath waiting for Damage’s views on this subject or of anything else---other than the Soap Opera material that he has invested so much time and energy on [draw your own conclusions on that one.]

Listen, check the productive efforts he has made over the years in the area of philosophy and Objectivism and you’ll find grocery lists that are lengthier and of more interest.

Damage, we all invite you speak on the subject of THIS thread. What have ye to say?

[Guest Michael Stuart Kelly]

(Note from Administrator: This post has been moved to here from another thread. It used to be here.)

Regarding the subject matter of this thread—Biddle, war and innocents in war time—all of it, don’t hold your breath waiting for Damage’s views on this subject or of anything else---other than the Soap Opera material that he has invested so much time and energy on [draw your own conclusions on that one.]

Listen, check the productive efforts he has made over the years in the area of philosophy and Objectivism and you’ll find grocery lists that are lengthier and of more interest.

Damage, we all invite you speak on the subject of THIS thread. What have ye to say?

Note the obvious. Victor and Angie, you made your relationship public. You can lie and evade all you want. I never injected doubt into your budding relationship. I gave you my thought on the reality of the situation. Both of you projected your own insecurities (doubt and negativity) back on to me. Victor created two threads on the topic. You both *encouraged* replies by engaging in a dialogue which was the explicit intention of those threads. Victor kept me aware of your replies to me, Angie, and encouraged me to reply.

I replied and then attempted to wash my hands of the whole thing by joking with MSK. I honestly wished you both luck. Then MSK and Victor insulted me (it's MSK's benevolent site, he can insult me if he wishes).

This provoked me to discuss (AGAIN) this even further. Then, Victor goes off on a tangent in this thread - YET, AGAIN - and brings it back to him (it's all about you, isn't it, Victor?). Notice, Angie, that I never mentioned your relationship in my first post. Your budding relationship is something that should've been kept PRIVATE *if* you didn't want free thoughts from others. You both share the entire responsibility in that.

As for "cherry" picking, it was due to a lack of time. You say that I've wasted time and energy on this issue. Why would I allow lies to be said about my intentions? Why would I allow vicious ad hominem attacks on my character?

To prove a point, let me pull a Victor and hijack this thread: Has anyone seen "The Departed"? Great movie. What did y'all think? Kidding. Don't reply to that.

Wayne Simmons

[Victor Pross]

(Note from Administrator: This post has been moved to here from another thread. It used to be here.)

Damage,

It's a dead issue...yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right...you were happy from day one when I told you about Angie...yeah, yeah...you are right--always right--you didn't insinuate that Angie is an internet Ho...yeah, yeah...NOW let's get back to the program here:

What are your views about Biddle, the targeting of innocents in war and the like...the topic of this thread, that is?

-V-

Edit: note on page 14 of this thread [and onward] that it is Damage that has hijacked this thread by bringing up the topic of Angie and me on this thread about Biddle. Take a look.

[Victor Pross]

(Note from Administrator: This post has been moved to here from another thread. It used to be here. Obviously, the reference in the post below refers to the original thread.)

Damage,

Stop hanging out at the edges of this topic. What are your explicit views of this topic? Or do we need only consult Biddle and Dan Edge [and others] to know YOUR views? Do you differ at all? Engage in dialogue with me, MSK, Angie, Dennis—anybody—on this important subject. Come on, join on! Forget the Angie and Victor bit, man. Let's talk philosophy.

Victor

[CNA]

(Note from Administrator: This post has been moved to here from another thread. It used to be here.)

Damage,

Oh, me, oh, my, what to do, what to do. :frantics: :frantics: I'm so insecure, so fragile, someone help me, the little ole victim of my nasty little ways. I'm so pathetic. Someone, anyone, please come save my ass from myself. I can't deal with reality. I have to evade all of it. I have to keep running from the truth. I'm not worthy. I'm not worthy.

I'm still laughing my ass off over all this and how truly absurd it is. Damage, the more you bring this topic up, the more it shows to everyone, especially to me, your inability to deal with what happened, your inability to move on, your own insecurities that what happened on that thread was damning to you and now you are doing whatever you can to repair it and your feeble attempt to lay blame where blame is not due, your inability to take responsibility for your actions and your choices. In essence, you are saying that Victor and I are at fault for YOUR behavior. That thread speaks for itself. It is self-evident. Anyone that wants to view the evidence, it is right here ----> Love in Bloom

Yes, we posted it. Yes, it was subjected to headbashers such as yourself. I find it interesting that you found that thread so threatening that you now say it should have been kept private. That you don't want to see it. You want to evade it. That Love, period, should be hidden from everyone. Why should love be kept private and not shared with those that you value, your family and friends? But it is now obvious that YOU personally don't want to see two people falling in love. That Love shouldn't be shared. That it should be kept hidden from everybody, especially YOU. That you can't deal with seeing it and that you have to evade it by telling Victor and I that it never should have been posted and made public to those we care about, those that we value. This is the message you are now sending to me.

You can talk all the shit you want. You can dish it out but you can't take it when it is dished out onto you. I really don't give a fuck. But there is one benefit you have offered me and that benefit is Entertainment purposes. I spoke with Victor today about you on the phone and I told him about how I viewed you. I still laugh at it as I now see you as solely for the purpose of entertaining me. The more you bring this subject up, the more obvious it becomes to me as to how you are and the more I laugh, the more entertained I become. You're entertaining me at your own expense. So thank you for the entertainment value that you now offer me.

You made yourself known on this site in a very negative way. Right off the bat you came here to OL bashing people over the head. Attacks that were NOT justified but you still believe that it was justified to attack these people when these people did absolutely nothing to you personally. Yes, I admit. You get in someone's face if they attack you or threaten you or what have you. But other than that, I really couldn't give a shit as these people's choices and lives have no bearing on my own and how I live my life. I really couldn't give a flying fuck how you or anyone else decides to live their life, just as long as it doesn't affect my life and my happiness. The only ones that are a concern of mine are the people that I value. All the rest can go fuck themselves as I really don't give a shit.

A word of advice for you: The best way to repair this is to start acting civil towards us as we are civil to you. If you treat me with respect, I will offer you the same respect. But until then, you will be talking to the hand. But while you're talking to the hand, I will be laughing and my laughter is at your own expense.

Angie

[Guest Michael Stuart Kelly]

Damage,

The best way to repair this is to start acting civil towards us as we are civil to you. If you treat me with respect, I will offer you the same respect. But until then, you will be talking to the hand. But while you're talking to the hand, I will be laughing and my laughter is at your own expense.

Angie

Your concept of civility is positively Orwellian. I think Victor and you should star in your own movie together. I got a title for you: "The Deluded". See if Martin Scorsese would be available to direct it.

So, comparing me to Elsworth Toohey would that be an example of civility? Mocking and futilely attempting to explain away my compliments are examples of civility? I NEVER found the thread - or your possible love -threatening. But, what I say doesn't matter because you both KNOW - with your mystical insights - that I don't really mean it.

[Victor Pross]

(Note from Administrator: This post has been moved to here from another thread. It used to be here. Obviously, the reference in the post below refers to the original thread.)

Wayne,

What are your views on Biddle and Edge when it comes to war? Now it's YOU that can't let it go, man. How many times do I need to ask you? Should we target children of the enemy to break their will and win the killing game? Or should we target Internet Whores?

MSK has moved this subject to 'Love in Bloom.' Keep it there.

Let's hear your views on war here. Or should we provide a link to Biddle's blog and call it "Damage agrees with these views"---sounds good?

Victor

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Wayne,

I would like to clear up a misunderstanding.

... it's MSK's benevolent site, he can insult me if he wishes...

The manner I posted the Toohey stuff from The Fountainhead gave an overly-strong insinuation that I think you, as a person, are a Toohey. I do not.

I can see where that insinuation is a gross insult. I apologize.

Michael

[Victor Pross]

Wayne,

My own position regarding the Toohey crack was that a “Toohey tactic” was being pulled—in that your commits about Angie and me teetered back and forth between positive and negative—but this does not characterize you as a total person. I ought to know: I have known you for 13 years.

Still, others can review the chronological history of this thread and your contributions to it and judge for themselves.

Victor

Edited October 9, 2006 by Victor Pross

[CNA]

I wasn't going to post to this thread but I will now.

Wayne or Damage,

I will say that you didn't leave a good impression on me when you first made your presence known to me on this site. It's not this thread but I'm sure you know the one I am referencing. You literally were attacking people I knew, not just one but two people. And that is why I posted to you for the first time on that other thread. It was in defense of my friend Gary. You had a huge audience that night and everyone was becoming upset obviously so I posted WHAT was obvious to me in watching everyone else respond, everyone's actions and everyone's thoughts.

And then when you made your presence known on this thread in the manner you did towards Victor and his being a cynic, I came in to do some of my own headbashing and what I had noticed in your very first post on this thread. I'm not comparing you to Toohey. For one, I do not even know who the character is nor have I read the Fountainhead. But I also know that when an individual is attacked a side of them comes out that is not the most favorable. They're acting in their own defense from being attacked. Yes, we were both attacking each other on this thread from the get go.

Victor has told me a little about you. I know you have good qualities about you and I recognize that. Like I said, I also recognized your well wishes. It just didn't look very good with all the other crap that went along with it. It's just we both got off on the wrong foot. With me, it's very simple in regards to respect, although you insulted me earlier about this. Show me respect and I will show you respect. I personally recognize that there are people that hold a different view than mine own. I live around it everyday. If I were to attack in the Ayn Rand style such as I've noticed elsewhere every single person that doesn't hold the same view as my own, literally my day would be taken up by attacking other people. For me, I have much better things to do, more productive activities, that will add to my life than attacking complete strangers or anyone that holds a different view than my own. Yes, I will get in someone's face if I am attacked or insulted or threatened, etc. But I do not make it my sole purpose in life in being a headbasher because someone isn't thinking right or what have you.

I know I am NOT your favorite person right now and I understand that. But I agree that it doesn't characterize your entire person. This is my personal observation and I'm not using this as an excuse for your own headbashing but I know you come from a site where it is the *in* thing to bash people over the head such as on SOLO for how other's think, their choices, etc. This truly is social meta crap and they don't even realize it, you know, being overly concerned about how other's live their life, what they think, their choices, etc., and we may disagree on this. If you are attacked, insulted, threatened, etc., yes, I will definitely do my own headbashing. But there are many many sites out there that are like this. Well, OL obviously is not one of them. I am not one of them; that is, until people I value, my firends, my Victor is attacked. Yes, I may disagree with Rich and his view or anyone else's but I do not have a desire to publicly humiliate and to pulverize them into the ground just to make myself look good in other people's eyes or to inflate a false sense of self-esteem as I've noticed on SOLO or other sites. I'm sure you've seen the one's that are like this. They get off on the headbashing. It makes them look good in the eye's of the one's they're trying to impress. So they publicly humiliate someone, pulverize them in to the ground. At that moment, they feel good about themselves and feel good about what they've done; ie, that they are better than that individual they just humiliated. They have a false sense of self-esteem. And then they go running back to their group where they are patted on the back for a job well done. They're finally accepted by some group. These are my own personal observations and my own conclusions and you may very well disagree with it.

But as I said, I know there are many many good qualities about you I'm sure and I do recognize this. I also recognize your well wishing on other threads aside from this one and I know you mean it.

Angie

Edited October 9, 2006 by CNA

[CNA]

Honey, where is your post that I read earlier as I was going to respond to it? I'm in the process now of catching up to the threads I want to post to and eventually get to Ciro's post. I still want to post to BB's post as well.

My last post to this thread is based on the knowledge that I have now. I do not know what he has said about me in private and maybe I should know now before I say anything further in regards to him. I do find it funny that we're called hypocrites for not pushing the philosophy. Yes, as if we are obligated and it is our duty to do so. I've been an O'ist for over 17 years, well, before I knew who Ayn Rand was. This is due to the environment that I was raised in, my family and friends and what I was exposed to. Plus I've put up the article of what it was that I started at the age of 15.5 to 16 years old. I never once felt the need then to bash people over the head and push the philosophy I had come to. All that mattered was that it ruled my life and guided my life and it made me happy. That's all that mattered.

But I find it funny that we are supposed to bash people into submission to convert to the philosophy or that we are to push it, period, and our loyalty lies in bashing people over the head. Hmmmm, well, duh, we're on an O'ist site. There's no need to bash people over the head and push it as it is everywhere you look on your computer screen. Duh. Obviously they already know about it but have made the decision not to pursue it.

Ange

[Victor Pross]

Hey, sweet:

In essence, I said this: I have been told that we two—Angie and I---are “hypocrites” because we failed to disparage Rich’s beliefs. Wayne made his displeasure well known to me in the way I handled Rich [or failed to handle him]. He took this as a personal affront to him and considered it a “personal betrayal.” Wayne took our relationship to task as fodder for public debate simply because we made it public knowledge.

[Guest Damage Inc.]

Wayne,

I would like to clear up a misunderstanding.

... it's MSK's benevolent site, he can insult me if he wishes...

The manner I posted the Toohey stuff from The Fountainhead gave an overly-strong insinuation that I think you, as a person, are a Toohey. I do not.

I can see where that insinuation is a gross insult. I apologize.

Michael

Thank you, Michael.

[Rich Engle]

In essence, I said this: I have been told that we two—Angie and I---are “hypocrites” because we failed to disparage Rich’s beliefs. Wayne made his displeasure well known to me in the way I handled Rich [or failed to handle him]. He took this as a personal affront to him and considered it a “personal betrayal.”

Really? That's pretty harsh... you personally betrayed? I'd be interested in seeing how that works. Or means, for that matter.

And really, the only thing anyone knows about my, er, "beliefs," are that they are not entirely based on Objectivism. I did say I'm Unitarian Universalist, which means I am not credal. Meaning, there's not the usual kind of list.

Wow, I kick ass! I can get other people to betray their friends by conversing with them. Behold my power!

rde

Sheesh...

[CNA]

Rich,

LMAO. You're too much. You've got a great sense of humor and always make me laugh. You're one of my buds. Hey, how's your Dagny doing? And what's been going on with the Zen Love Nest of yours?!?!

[Rich Engle]

My Dagster is doing fantastic. We ran into free tickets for The Blue Man Group last Friday, saw that after dinner at Cooperstown (Alice Cooper's restaurant, which, sadly, sucked). Spent all weekend with her at the nest/Atomic Playboy HQ. Our reputation as kings of the street is intact; she's never been there when the cops come-- a true rite of passage. We also hiked down into the riverbed of the Metroparks, and I improved her stone-skipping technique immeasurably.

Many small modifications underway in the ZLN. I'm a little sad because I was mounting a full length mirror sideways in front of the bed, but it cracked in transit (sob).

I'm considering breaking tradition and putting the bed on a frame-- the first sign of complacency. On the other hand, I downloaded plans for bed lofting, and that can be done for 90 bucks. It will leave a sub-nest area under the bed, and I'm liking that.

rde

Looking for his toolbelt and hammer. For the loft. Right...the loft.

[CNA]

(Note from Administrator: This post has been moved to here from another thread. It used to be here. Obviously, the reference in the post below refers to the original thread.)

Warning: If you don't like sugary posts, beware.

Angie is not just another pretty face. B)

Come now, Honey, you're my baby. Of course, a separate post for you. Ah, how sweeeeeeeet. I'm tickled pink. Thank you, sweetie. Yes, everyone, this post is all syrupy and sugary with warm fuzzy feelings all over it and dripping with love and cute little bunnies running around. LOL

[Victor Pross]

Angie, come now, people will start to talk. :whistle:

Edited October 14, 2006 by Victor Pross

[CNA]

Thank you for liking my post I had put up, not this one but the other one where you responded the way you did and you got that response from me. I thought it was very sweet. The comment you made was made in the Lepers thread so I posted my comments to that thread and not here.

Angie, come now, people will start to talk.

It's truly unfortunate that some people call themselves an O'ist but they bitch and complain and whine about something such as this topic as they did in the past. I have to laugh at it. I really do. They can't bear to read about love but have no problems reading about death and destruction and genocide. It's so very very telling. WOW. Oh, yeah, honey, I forgot that I care more about what others say about me and think about me and us so I have to watch what I say as not to offend THEM so they won't start talkin' smack.

Please

Edited October 14, 2006 by CNA

[CNA]

I wanted to put this up as a clarification. My above post is not in reference to Kat or Mike and a few others. Wayne made his comments known as to the "possibility" of it and the contents of this thread. But as to the reason the events on this thread unfolded was also due to the circumstances before this particular thread was ever put up. And those that are aware of this and what happened will know what I am referencing. This thread, Love in Bloom, was the continuation of underlying circumstances of that original thread and what happened then. With that said, Wayne made his objections known but I know he means well with his well-wishing towards Victor and I.

I have my thoughts as to the reasons why my post was moved from the Lepers thread. The statements in my last post on this thread are made in a general way as to anyone that takes more issue and offense with Love and think it is inappropriate as compared to Death and Destruction. I find it rather disturbing and very telling of someone that they become offended and take issue when reading about Love but yet they are more comfortable and not as offended when reading issues that deal with Death and Destruction. That they can't distinguish between the two.

Angie

Edited October 14, 2006 by CNA

[Victor Pross]

Hey, honey. There are two kinds of people: Some want to suck the marrow of life--and others want to suck the marrow from life. Some people are like Cruella de Ville and we must save the cute little puppy dogs from them! :puppeh:

I love you, sweet! Ruff! Ruff!

[Guest Damage Inc.]

Thank you for liking my post I had put up, not this one but the other one where you responded the way you did and you got that response from me. I thought it was very sweet. The comment you made was made in the Lepers thread so I posted my comments to that thread and not here.

Angie, come now, people will start to talk.

It's truly unfortunate that some people call themselves an O'ist but they bitch and complain and whine about something such as this topic as they did in the past. I have to laugh at it. I really do. They can't bear to read about love but have no problems reading about death and destruction and genocide. It's so very very telling. WOW. Oh, yeah, honey, I forgot that I care more about what others say about me and think about me and us so I have to watch what I say as not to offend THEM so they won't start talkin' smack.

Please

Some songs about love and relationships.

I love that strawman of me. Thanks, Angie. So one dimensional.

:zorro:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptw-Lv3FqEQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjDEvzzXrAw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHifYcWpWjA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0tqCetz-Dw

Later!

Wayne Simmons

[Victor Pross]

Those who are down on love are playing it SOLO I suppose. Hee-hee!