Love in Bloom

[Dragonfly]

"So this thread is open game for you, is it?"

You want it private, then keep it private.

I think Bob has a good point here. You can hardly complain if you flood this list with hundreds of hysterical, saccharine love declarations, which might be understandable when sent in private, but which become embarrassing and annoying in a public display. So far I've avoided to comment on it as I considered it a private matter, but now everyone is picking on Bob and the wagons are drawn around darling Victor I feel I can no longer keep silent. Diplomacy is perhaps not Bob's strong suit, but I think he has made some good points with which I agree.

[James Heaps-Nelson]

"So this thread is open game for you, is it?"

You want it private, then keep it private.

I think Bob has a good point here. You can hardly complain if you flood this list with hundreds of hysterical, saccharine love declarations, which might be understandable when sent in private, but which become embarrassing and annoying in a public display. So far I've avoided to comment on it as I considered it a private matter, but now everyone is picking on Bob and the wagons are drawn around darling Victor I feel I can no longer keep silent. Diplomacy is perhaps not Bob's strong suit, but I think he has made some good points with which I agree.

Can't you guys just wish Victor and Angie well with some caveats? Geez... My Taiwanese wife has a term for this: Jipiu, which roughly translates to minding someone else's business.

Jim

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Diplomacy is perhaps not Bob's strong suit, but I think he has made some good points with which I agree.

Dragonfly,

For the record, it's not the good points (or any discussion of the ideas) I was talking about. Those are welcome.

Michael

[bmacwilliam]

Mike,

From the first post of Bob's to this thread, the insults and anger directed at both me and Victor was completely unjustified and uncalled for. The reason for the link and excerpt from another poster on another forum was to show that it seems he has a history with this sort of behavior not only on that forum but also on this thread and other threads on OL as well and I just happened to agree with that poster not on only one issue but several. Unfortunately it seems *showing* that what was said was inaccurate would still not work in this particular case, despite all the postings and evidence on this thread from other members who have had similar experiences to me and Victor's situation and falling in love before even meeting in the flesh and some have married, have had children, or have uprooted themselves and moved a considerable distance to be with their loved one and are now living together. My impression of his attitude and behavior was not to debate a point but merely to throw insults for the purpose of inciting hostility. I'm not so easy in giving him the benefit of the doubt. Yes, the ignore feature is rather useful and has been used in this situation.

Your points and your post is well understood by me.

Angie

Very interesting, very interesting indeed. What's most interesting to me is that you accuse me of 'anger' here and of 'rage' in another post. I feel neither. I suggest you look inside and reflect on why you need to project your anger and rage onto me. I asked some hard questions, pointed out some harsh reality that you both refused to face. I suggest that this is the source of your rage, and if you feel angry again reading this, then its confirmed. You need to face the rage, not me.

I'll keep the insults out of it, but foolishness is foolishness. I have no desire nor motivation to be diplomatic or implicitly supportive. I'm just poking at the truth, perhaps in an abrasive manner, but it's the truth nonetheless.

It also doesn't surprise me that Greybird took the chance to insult me. He doesn't like the fact that I don't think its a good thing for men in their 40's to live with their parents. He accuses me of shrouding malice in concern through a question about Victor's parents. I am neither malicious nor concerned. The question is a good one and still stands unanswered.

Remember, it is YOU who brought this into the public eye, not me. If you didn't want to be questioned, you shouldn't have posted all of this. Simple as that.

"have uprooted themselves and moved a considerable distance to be with their loved one and are now living together."

See, you're still not getting it. Did they uproot and move a considerable distance BEFORE meeting?

Bob

Edited May 3, 2007 by Bob_Mac

[bmacwilliam]

"So this thread is open game for you, is it?"

You want it private, then keep it private.

I think Bob has a good point here. You can hardly complain if you flood this list with hundreds of hysterical, saccharine love declarations, which might be understandable when sent in private, but which become embarrassing and annoying in a public display. So far I've avoided to comment on it as I considered it a private matter, but now everyone is picking on Bob and the wagons are drawn around darling Victor I feel I can no longer keep silent. Diplomacy is perhaps not Bob's strong suit, but I think he has made some good points with which I agree.

Can't you guys just wish Victor and Angie well with some caveats? Geez... My Taiwanese wife has a term for this: Jipiu, which roughly translates to minding someone else's business.

Jim

What's the term for waving around your private business in public?

Bob

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Bob,

Thank you for the tone.

Michael

[bmacwilliam]

In fact, there is only every reason to suppose that our bond will only grow stronger once the relationship is consummated.

-Victor

Right Victor! That's good! Rational too I'd say!

If you had left it there, all is well. I'm finding it a little hard to believe that you can't agree that turining your life upside down, deciding to move, professing the deepest love mankind has ever known, naming your future children and whatever else... BEFORE seeing how the bond grows stronger is more than a little over the top.

Bob

Edited May 3, 2007 by Bob_Mac

[bmacwilliam]

I was sent something lastnight from another forum regarding Bob that I found rather interesting and agree with the troll remark and the purpose with what was said by this individual in regards to Bob. I'll include the post as well as the link. This is from RoR's Editor Ethan Dawe. I also saw Bob's blatantly disrespectful comment made not too long ago in regards to Rand and Barbara Branden vehemently objected to as well as other comments Bob has made on this forum in an attempt to incite hostility from members. It seems Bob has a history of this type of behavior. I choose not to engage such people as it is a waste of my time and energy. I personally would much rather spend my time and energy doing something much more productive. I'm glad there is an "ignore" feature as it will definitely be used. Here is the quote and link I referenced above that I was sent lastnight.

Bob, [Mac]

Unlike some people here, I realize that you are a troll. Your post is a classic example of a muddled non-argument. I can only assume its another of what I perceive as your campaign to poke at Objectivists for your own perverse pleasure. From what I've seen, you never fail to ignore others counters to your arguments. Given that, there is no point in attempting to argue with you. You appear to me to be immune to reason. That is why I took to lampooning you on another thread. Have a nice day.

Ethan

http://rebirthofreason.com/Forum/NewsDiscu...ns/1443.shtml#7

Now, let me address this.

Ethan got all huffy because he got verbally spanked in that argument - HARD. I see you conveniently left out the previous post that got him all freaked out.

________________________________________

"Ethan wrote:

All the problems I've ever heard attributed to Objectivism are actually attributable to either complete misunderstandings of the philosophy or are examples of bad behavior from someone who claims to be an Objectivist, but who holds positions inconsistent with the basic ideas of the philosophy.

I'm tired of reading things from those who mischaracterize Objectivism and Objectivists.

Bob's reply:

Like this one from Barbara's speech?

"Those who question our ideas and those who oppose them, we are told, are not merely unintelligent, ignorant, uninformed; they are evil, they are moral monsters to be cast out and forever damned."

Ah.... that would be Rand who told "us" that. Maybe she's just "someone who claims to be an Objectivist".

Bob

___________________________________

Man, I can still hear the echo of that spanking...

Bob

P.S. The main point I was making had nothing to do with Barbara at all, or the content of her speech. No slight, insult, or even the slightest disagreement was directed toward Barbara at all. I was pointing out that Ethan's point about evil, moral condemnations, rage and other cultish behaviour and attitudes stemming from 'bad' Objectivists - not really Objectivists at all was wrong. I just pointed out, with a reference from Barbara that MY opinion is that much of this originated from Rand herself.

Edited May 3, 2007 by Bob_Mac

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Ethan got all huffy because he got verbally spanked in that argument - HARD.

. . .

Man, I can still hear the echo of that spanking...

Bob,

I have had contact with Ethan off line. We have some strong disagreements, but our communication has been friendly. From what I know of his character, I seriously doubt he feels humiliated in the form you imagine he feels. If you are really committed to that vision, I think you will be disappointed.

I learned about spanking people with some very ugly characters in my past. When these people spank someone, there is physical contact and it is not pretty. Did you really spank Ethan or did you simply make a post on RoR?

But I have even a more basic question. Do you get some kind of spiritual fuel from this kind of thing? Do you get some kind of sense of accomplishment? I'm serious and my perplexity is real.

I imagine myself on my death bed. I am looking at three other guys also getting ready to die.

The first says: "Well, it has been quite a ride. I wrote about 180 songs or so. About 40 hit the top 100 and 10 are now standards. It made me wealthy and has spread joy to many folks. It's been a good life."

The second says: "I've had it hard, but it was worth it. I managed to put myself through medical school by working part time while I studied, and holding down two jobs in the summer. Later I invented a new heart surgery procedure that has saved the lives of thousands of people. They have paid me well for this and I'm proud of the life I have lived."

The third says: "I built up a computer business from nothing. I made a pot load of money and enriched the lives of millions of people. My products are now an industry benchmark. My family is set and I can go in peace."

Then I look at them and say: "I made some Internet posts and told some people off real hard. I won some arguments and spanked them good. Boy, let me tell ya', I sure as shootin' showed them! They won't forget me soon once I'm gone! No siree!"

Doesn't that sound a bit, er... empty?

Also, the first three are much more likely to be remembered by mankind than the last. So what is it that is so attractive about trying to beat other people and humiliate them all the time? I try to internalize the feeling and all I get is a big nothing.

I know it exists because I see you and others do it. But for the life of me, I don't know what it feels like. I can't imagine the value in wasting the precious unrepeatable minutes of my life on constantly trying to humiliate people I despise.

Michael

[Dragonfly]

Bob wasn't the one who brought that Dawe person and his troll comment up.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Bob wasn't the one who brought that Dawe person and his troll comment up.

Dragonfly,

Did someone else spank Dawe too?

Michael

[bmacwilliam]

Ethan got all huffy because he got verbally spanked in that argument - HARD.

. . .

Man, I can still hear the echo of that spanking...

Bob,

I have had contact with Ethan off line. We have some strong disagreements, but our communication has been friendly. From what I know of his character, I seriously doubt he feels humiliated in the form you imagine he feels. If you are really committed to that vision, I think you will be disappointed.

I learned about spanking people with some very ugly characters in my past. When these people spank someone, there is physical contact and it is not pretty. Did you really spank Ethan or did you simply make a post on RoR?

But I have even a more basic question. Do you get some kind of spiritual fuel from this kind of thing? Do you get some kind of sense of accomplishment? I'm serious and my perplexity is real.

I imagine myself on my death bed. I am looking at three other guys also getting ready to die.

The first says: "Well, it has been quite a ride. I wrote about 180 songs or so. About 40 hit the top 100 and 10 are now standards. It made me wealthy and has spread joy to many folks. It's been a good life."

The second says: "I've had it hard, but it was worth it. I managed to put myself through medical school by working part time while I studied, and holding down two jobs in the summer. Later I invented a new heart surgery procedure that has saved the lives of thousands of people. They have paid me well for this and I'm proud of the life I have lived."

The third says: "I built up a computer business from nothing. I made a pot load of money and enriched the lives of millions of people. My products are now an industry benchmark. My family is set and I can go in peace."

Then I look at them and say: "I made some Internet posts and told some people off real hard. I won some arguments and spanked them good. Boy, let me tell ya', I sure as shootin' showed them! They won't forget me soon once I'm gone! No siree!"

Doesn't that sound a bit, er... empty?

Also, the first three are much more likely to be remembered by mankind than the last. So what is it that is so attractive about trying to beat other people and humiliate them all the time? I try to internalize the feeling and all I get is a big nothing.

I know it exists because I see you and others do it. But for the life of me, I don't know what it feels like. I can't imagine the value in wasting the precious unrepeatable minutes of my life on constantly trying to humiliate people I despise.

Michael

Constantly? Certainly not.

I have certain strong convictions, others not so strong. Keeping an open mind and willingness to learn and grow are valuable and laudable merits. This attitude takes a certain amount of humility, clearly absent in some. I don't like nor respect this type of person. I may be abrasive at times sure, but I do admit when I'm wrong, and I do admit where my knowledge grows thin. I value this highly and therefore I admire this in others.

I found Ethan close minded, arrogant, and most certainly wrong. He made a very strong, very clear, and very wrong assertion.

There is a certain amount of satisfaction in verbally slapping someone in the face with facts in these situations and watching what happens. It is also intellectually challenging, and I do get something out of it. The results are interesting and unpredicatable. That makes life worth living no?

That's what happened with Victor. I got irritated with his behaviour and I thought I'd throw around a few obvious truths that for whatever reason, others had decided not to point out, then see what happens. Interesting results don't you think?

Trolling? Only if I'm full of crap, but I'm not.

"I built up a computer business from nothing. I made a pot load of money and enriched the lives of millions of people. My products are now an industry benchmark. My family is set and I can go in peace."

Nice!! I wholeheartedly agree. FWIW, I have built two software companies from nothing and sold them (they're still going strong - no kidding!) and I'm currently engaged in building a totally different business from nothing and this is the most exciting one yet!

Bob

P.S. - In 'real' life, at school as a kid, and in hockey (as an adult too) I was the non-fighter who took great pleasure in kicking the crap out of the bully when necessary. That's just me.

Edited May 3, 2007 by Bob_Mac

[bmacwilliam]

"I seriously doubt he feels humiliated in the form you imagine he feels. If you are really committed to that vision, I think you will be disappointed."

Agreed. This type of person is incapable of that. But he felt really angry when presented with some little, inconvient truth didn't he?

Good enough.

Bob

[Victor Pross]

>>>It also doesn't surprise me that Greybird took the chance to insult me. He doesn't like the fact that I don't think its a good thing for men in their 40's to live with their parents. He accuses me of shrouding malice in concern through a question about Victor's parents. I am neither malicious nor concerned. The question is a good one and still stands unanswered.

Bob,

My parents are dead. Plus, I was raised by my grandparents—who are also deceased. If all were still alive: My parents wouldn’t care about my love life and my grandparents would have found Angie to be an absolute doll and would wish us much happiness.

The reason why this question went unanswered at first is because I didn’t see its relevancy.

-Victor

[CNA]

Bob wrote:

"have uprooted themselves and moved a considerable distance to be with their loved one and are now living together."

See, you're still not getting it. Did they uproot and move a considerable distance BEFORE meeting?

Bob

One thing you haven't gotten is that he hasn't moved here. We are meeting in less than 3 weeks. He won't be here in California probably for a good 1.5 years, more than enough time to see each other often which is planned and a lot can happen in those 1.5 years. As for uprooting and moving before meeting but having other forms of extensive communication, yes, I know of a few people that have done this and have been together for quite a few years. It's nothing new.

As for my parents, I really couldn't care what they think and this whole situation. I don't need to have their input on how to run MY LIFE, what decisions I will make. I'm a bit amazed STILL that you are still trying to argue this based on your rationalizations and absolutely NO EXPERIENCE with this, having no clue as to the FULL context of what has transpired over the past 8 or 9 months between me and Victor, the amount of communication that we have had, and that we can't form a strong enough bond to realize, "Damn, this person is very special, very different. I have fallen in love with this person." But it seems as Ethan is correct, you never fail to ignore other's counters to your arguments. That's become totally clear, given the extent of this entire thread. It's now become pointless to keep addressing you.

Angie

[BAMF]

The reason why this question went unanswered at first is because I didn’t see its relevancy.

I didn't either, Victor. Is he implying that parents always have the best advice or...?

I know I always listen to my parents. Where do you think I got all my wisdom? :devil:

[Greybird]

It also doesn't surprise me that Greybird took the chance to insult me. He doesn't like the fact that I don't think it's a good thing for men in their 40s to live with their parents.

You've made up this so-called dislike out of whole cloth, as far as I can tell. In the one comment I've made here anywhere near that subject, I said that the reasons for such a situation can be many and varied, can easily involve matters that are entirely private, and are not at all susceptible to a facile external moral judgment. Unlike your own comment, later in that thread, I actually adduced support and historical examples for what I said.

He accuses me of shrouding malice in concern through a question about Victor's parents. I am neither malicious nor concerned. The question is a good one and still stands unanswered.

Look into the concepts "party crasher" and "disingenuous" and get back to us when you've fully ingested them, would you?

Victor is the only one who needs to be particularly concerned about his parents. (Or would be, if they were alive.) If you'd read his memoir of growing up, you might have discerned some sound reasons for why he might not want to bother.

Beyond what he chooses to reveal, it's none of your or anyone else's business. And even then, it's a matter of context. This is, primarily, a celebration thread.

Remember, it is YOU who brought this into the public eye, not me. If you didn't want to be questioned, you shouldn't have posted all of this. Simple as that.

And people actually have the temerity to suggest that Objectivists are dour bastards who are incapable of accepting the joy of others without analyzing it and moralizing about it. What EVER would give anyone that idea? {/sarcasm}

Edited May 3, 2007 by Greybird

[Dragonfly]

Did someone else spank Dawe too?

I don't understand this question.

[BAMF]

One thing you haven't gotten is that he hasn't moved here. We are meeting in less than 3 weeks. He won't be here in California probably for a good 1.5 years, more than enough time to see each other often which is planned and a lot can happen in those 1.5 years.

Well, shit, I thought that he was movin' all his crapola out to you on a U-Haul, staying with you for a few weeks...and THEN y'all were goin' up to Niagara Falls.

I better postpone sending my housewarming gift.

As for my parents, I really couldn't care what they think and this whole situation. I don't need to have their input on how to run MY LIFE, what decisions I will make.

You said it, sista.

[Victor Pross]

Bob,

I take you to be a man in his 50s or 60s, and one who is locked into a set pattern of going about things—this would include the mating dance. I sense that the idea of cyber-love-meeting and the subsequent building of a life with the betrothed is alien to you and does not follow the familiar pattern of 20th century mating habits of singles bars or hard hats whistling at the pretty girls passing by or whatever else came from the old world. It is all so new millennia to you that people do in fact fall in love—even at great distances. The stats would surprise you.

I wish to call into question your outrageous stance that people can’t fall in love over the internet*—which is to say that Angie and I our not in love. I will say to you what was said to another detractor:

‘Wayne, listen to Angie and me: we are in love. That's our point. Just what the hell is your point? Are you telling us that we are not two intelligent—introspective—adults who are able to assess what’s happening to our hearts, our innards? Are you telling us that we aren’t actually feeling an intense affinity of shared values—an intense feeling of admiration, of desire, of respect, of painful longing? If love is a response to values—then we hit the mother load. Tell me, how did you gain access to our hearts and state of mind to say anything contrary? I’m really curious to know how you managed this…and without engaging in rationalism to boot! I’m truly amazed.’

The exact same thing can be said to you—except substitute the name ‘Wayne’ and insert your own in the address.

-Victor

*This has intellectual relevancy given the nature of what love and attraction is about in relation to modern technology that I touched on in some other thread.

[bmacwilliam]

>>>It also doesn't surprise me that Greybird took the chance to insult me. He doesn't like the fact that I don't think its a good thing for men in their 40's to live with their parents. He accuses me of shrouding malice in concern through a question about Victor's parents. I am neither malicious nor concerned. The question is a good one and still stands unanswered.

Bob,

My parents are dead. Plus, I was raised by my grandparents—who are also deceased. If all were still alive: My parents wouldn’t care about my love life and my grandparents would have found Angie to be an absolute doll and would wish us much happiness.

The reason why this question went unanswered at first is because I didn’t see its relevancy.

-Victor

Victor, you're trying to slide out of this one. I am sure you do not think that I predict that your family (parents, grandparents, sister, whatever), or other third party with your best interests at heart would NOT wish you all the happiness in the world. C'mon now.

You wrote

" but I am planning to move to California to live with Angie. Talk about a big step. I have vssen an immigration lawyer who has quoted around 45-hundred."

My question is how they would react to THAT knowing you HAVEN'T MET. How is the opinion of someone that cares about you and is NOT caught up in the fantasy irrelevant? That's called 'denial'.

Bob

[bmacwilliam]

It also doesn't surprise me that Greybird took the chance to insult me. He doesn't like the fact that I don't think it's a good thing for men in their 40s to live with their parents.

You've made up this so-called dislike out of whole cloth, as far as I can tell. In the one comment I've made here anywhere near that subject, I said that the reasons for such a situation can be many and varied, can easily involve matters that are entirely private, and are not at all susceptible to a facile external moral judgment. Unlike your own comment, later in that thread, I actually adduced support and historical examples for what I said.

He accuses me of shrouding malice in concern through a question about Victor's parents. I am neither malicious nor concerned. The question is a good one and still stands unanswered.

Look into the concepts "party crasher" and "disingenuous" and get back to us when you've fully ingested them, would you?

Victor is the only one who needs to be particularly concerned about his parents. (Or would be, if they were alive.) If you'd read his memoir of growing up, you might have discerned some sound reasons for why he might not want to bother.

Beyond what he chooses to reveal, it's none of your or anyone else's business. And even then, it's a matter of context. This is, primarily, a celebration thread.

Remember, it is YOU who brought this into the public eye, not me. If you didn't want to be questioned, you shouldn't have posted all of this. Simple as that.

And people actually have the temerity to suggest that Objectivists are dour bastards who are incapable of accepting the joy of others without analyzing it and moralizing about it. What EVER would give anyone that idea? {/sarcasm}

"Victor is the only one who needs to be particularly concerned about his parents."

It is extremely unwise to dismiss out of hand the opinion of a third party who loves you when you're clearly not thinking straight. That's my point.

"Look into the concepts "party crasher" and "disingenuous" and get back to us when you've fully ingested them, would you?"

Party crasher, OK. The truth has a nasty habit of doing that.

Disingenuous, No.

"I said that the reasons for such a situation can be many and varied, can easily involve matters that are entirely private, and are not at all susceptible to a facile external moral judgment."

Sure they can. That's called "rationalization". Look into that and and get back to us when you've fully ingested that, would you?

Bob

[bmacwilliam]

Bob,

I take you to be a man in his 50s or 60s, and one who is locked into a set pattern of going about things—this would include the mating dance. I sense that the idea of cyber-love-meeting and the subsequent building of a life with the betrothed is alien to you and does not follow the familiar pattern of 20th century mating habits of singles bars or hard hats whistling at the pretty girls passing by or whatever else came from the old world. It is all so new millennia to you that people do in fact fall in love—even at great distances. The stats would surprise you.

I wish to call into question your outrageous stance that people can’t fall in love over the internet*—which is to say that Angie and I our not in love. I will say to you what was said to another detractor:

‘Wayne, listen to Angie and me: we are in love. That's our point. Just what the hell is your point? Are you telling us that we are not two intelligent—introspective—adults who are able to assess what’s happening to our hearts, our innards? Are you telling us that we aren’t actually feeling an intense affinity of shared values—an intense feeling of admiration, of desire, of respect, of painful longing? If love is a response to values—then we hit the mother load. Tell me, how did you gain access to our hearts and state of mind to say anything contrary? I’m really curious to know how you managed this…and without engaging in rationalism to boot! I’m truly amazed.’

The exact same thing can be said to you—except substitute the name ‘Wayne’ and insert your own in the address.

-Victor

*This has intellectual relevancy given the nature of what love and attraction is about in relation to modern technology that I touched on in some other thread.

Interesting. Very interesting you'd conclude I'm much older than I am.

Technologically, I'm hip man, I'm groovy. I was in the midst of all the internet insanity at the end of the last century working for a small company with crazy ideas on the edge of the MIT campus in Cambridge MA. When I came back to Canada I was deemed one of the country's 75 'Strategic Architects' of the internet scene dude, and invited to Microsoft's main campus for a conference that included meeting with uncle Bill himself. Hey, I'd like to think I was good at what I did, but the invitation was of course based on money more than anything else. I just happened to be the lead Software Architect for a Financial/Financial Technology company that was raking in a Bajillion dollars per second and part of that Bajillion could potentially go to Mr. Gates if my decisions went Microsoft way. That's why I was 'deemed', but my point is I ain't no old-school anything especially when it comes to technology.

"Are you telling us that we aren’t actually feeling an intense affinity of shared values—an intense feeling of admiration, of desire, of respect, of painful longing? "

Yes, yes I am. Oh, you're feeling something strong allright. The "painful longing" is the key phrase. Pain is a powerful motivator. I think you two are in love with the thought of being in love the way you think you are - if you think you know what I think I mean. Might you have a future with this? Sure, it's possible, but in my opinion, you're working hard to NOT let that happen.

Bob

Edited May 3, 2007 by Bob_Mac

[Victor Pross]

"So this thread is open game for you, is it?"

You want it private, then keep it private.

I think Bob has a good point here. You can hardly complain if you flood this list with hundreds of hysterical, saccharine love declarations, which might be understandable when sent in private, but which become embarrassing and annoying in a public display. So far I've avoided to comment on it as I considered it a private matter, but now everyone is picking on Bob and the wagons are drawn around darling Victor I feel I can no longer keep silent. Diplomacy is perhaps not Bob's strong suit, but I think he has made some good points with which I agree.

The fly in the ointment of love. :bug:

-Victor :whistle:

[Victor Pross]

"Yes, yes I am. Oh, you're feeling something strong allright. The "painful longing" is the key phrase. Pain is a powerful motivator. I think you two are in love with the thought of being in love the way you think you are - if you think you know what I think I mean. Might you have a future with this? Sure, it's possible, but in my opinion, you're working hard to NOT let that happen."

Bob,

How can you possibly know this? How—as I asked battery acid Wayne Simmons—did you gain such insight into my psyche and heart? I never had anybody ever tell me the content of my innards—insisting that they have a more accurate read than me—before. Pardon me, my gaffe, please! That is truly astounding! To make sure I have it right: Is it just ME that you conjecture this—or is it your contention that people simply can’t fall in love over the internet?

-Victor