So...Canada, Twin Towers, Three Naked Women and $20 Dollar Bill - You're Kidding Righr?

[Selene]

Canadians have been left confused over the country's new $20-dollar bill which some have said appeared to feature three naked woman and the World Trade Center towers.

The government was rolling out the new banknote as part of an upgrade of the monetary system. It actually features the Vimy Memorial in northern France, the largest monument overseas for Canadian soldiers lost the First World War.

However many Canadians believed the bill showed the Twin Towers and three topless women along with the head of state, Queen Elizabeth II.

Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz1uVL8yEW0

This is what you guys are concerned about?

Adam

[william.scherk]

On a bad day the Daily Mail sells six million papers. The day the non-story appeared regarding the non-problem with the new twenty (which I featured in the PARC is dead buried goodbye thread) was a bad day. Fallacy of composition. Fallacy of making shit up.

[Selene]

On a bad day the Daily Mail sells six million papers. The day the non-story appeared regarding the non-problem with the new twenty (which I featured in the PARC is dead buried goodbye thread) was a bad day. Fallacy of composition. Fallacy of making shit up.

William:

Are you referring to your post #143 on that PARC thread?

Adam

[Dan Haggerty]

This is what you guys are concerned about?

In all fairness our news is little better. Good Morning America has become "Entertainment This Morning" with some light news tossed in if required. As an example, today they spent more time covering Prince Charles doing the weather in England (as a cameo) then they did covering the actual weather here.

[william.scherk]

Here is the reverse face of the new bill entering circulation:

[Selene]

William:

That is what the article was about.

They show it in the paper. You are indicating that there is no back lash from the public over the three figures on the towers. I have no clue, nor do I care, but that was what was in the paper.

I think it is hilarious.

Adam

[william.scherk]

Hilarious that the Daily Mail invented a 'controversy' where none exists? Yes, perhaps.

Since Murdoch was forced to shutter the Mail's foremost sleazeball competitor (News of the World), the Daily Mail competes with the Sun, another media sewage-farm noted for its yellow journalism and its corruption.

Adam, the battle at Vimy Ridge is part of the modern Canadian mythos, and the monument was dedicated in 1936. It is both a site of Canadian war history and the birthplace of Canada's independent armed forces. At Vimy, the Canadian (Imperial) forces showed valour, and the monument is an important symbol that Canadians are independent actors in the world of war.

The details of the monument's figures are easy to find. That the Mail looked no further than its own sleeve is kind of funny. That American friends would assume the facts as presented by the Mail, is not funny at all to me.

Here is an excerpt from the Vimy memorial page at Wikipedia. I quote from the section devoted to the sculptural figures.

The memorial contains a large number of stylized features, including 20 human figures, which help the viewer in contemplating the structure as a whole. The front wall, normally mistaken for the rear, is 24 feet (7.3 m) high and represents an impenetrable wall of defence. There is a group of figures at each end of the front wall, next to the base of the steps. The Breaking of the Sword is located at the southern corner of the front wall while Sympathy of the Canadians for the Helpless is located at the northern corner. Collectively, the two groups are The Defenders and represent the ideals for which Canadians gave their lives during the war. There is a cannon barrel draped in laurel and olive branches carved into the wall above each group, to symbolize peace. In Breaking of the Sword, three young men are present, one of whom is crouching and breaking his sword. This statue represents the defeat of militarism and the general desire for peace. This grouping of figures is the most overt image to pacifism in the monument, the breaking of a sword being extremely uncommon in war memorials. The original plan for the sculpture included one figure crushing a German helmet with his foot. Allward later decided to dismiss this feature because of its overtly militaristic imagery. In Sympathy of the Canadians for the Helpless, one man stands erect while three other figures, stricken by hunger or disease, are crouched and kneeling around him. The standing man represents Canada’s sympathy for the weak and oppressed.

The figure of a cloaked young female stands on top of the front wall and overlooks the Douai Plains. The woman has her head bowed, her eyes cast down, and her chin resting in one hand. Below her at ground level of the former battlefield is a sarcophagus, bearing a Brodie helmet, a sword and draped in laurel branches. The saddened figure of Canada Bereft, also known as Mother Canada, is a national personification of the young nation of Canada, mourning her dead. The statue, a reference to traditional images of the Mater Dolorosa and presented in a similar style to that of Michelangelo's Pietà, faces eastward looking out to the dawn of the new day. Unlike the other statues on the monument, stonemasons carved Canada Bereft from a single 30 tonne block of stone. The statue is the largest single piece in the monument and serves as a focal point.

The twin pylons rise to a height 30 metres above the memorial's stone platform. The twin white pylons, one bearing the maple leaf for Canada and the other the fleur-de-lis for France, symbolize the unity and sacrifice of both countries. At the top of the two pylons is a grouping of figures known collectively as the Chorus. The most senior figures represent Justice and Peace. Peace stands with a torch upraised, making it the highest point in the region.

Edited May 11, 2012 by william.scherk

[Selene]

William:

I know the story of the memorial and I have seen the figures. Was there a logic to going with the naked look in the proposal submissions?

I trust that it is a tempest in a teapot, but I found it quite amusing. At first, I thought it was a slight at the 911 Twin Towers with naked victims on it which is why I clicked on the link at the Drudge Report. That is how I arrived at the article.

Adam

[caroljane]

William:

That is what the article was about.

They show it in the paper. You are indicating that there is no back lash from the public over the three figures on the towers. I have no clue, nor do I care, but that was what was in the paper.

I think it is hilarious.

Adam

William:

That is what the article was about.

They show it in the paper. You are indicating that there is no back lash from the public over the three figures on the towers. I have no clue, nor do I care, but that was what was in the paper.

I think it is hilarious.

Adam

It was in the Mail, a British paper. I have not noticed any backlash in Canadian media.

The reputation gained at such cost by our Canadian soldiers in WWI, and enhanced in WWII, remains among the highest in the world today among other military professionals.

I am very proud of the grandfather I never knew, who fought from 1916 to 1918, and my father who fought fro 40-45. And grateful beyond words that they both survived to be veterans!

[Selene]

I am very proud of the grandfather I never knew, who fought from 1916 to 1918, and my father who fought fro 40-45. And grateful beyond words that they both survived to be veterans!

Carol:

As you should be. As I am for them.

Adam

[caroljane]

Thanks buddy - cross-border group hug now - shoulders only!

[caroljane]

I should also acknowledge my other grandfather, who served in the American Army 1917-18. He did not see any action but did survive the flu epidemic. He also learned to drive, to the future terror of his family and neighbours and an unknown number of East Coast motorists.

[Selene]

Thanks buddy - cross-border group hug now - shoulders only!

No problem...you're going to be standing on your head like the last time...right?

[caroljane]

You told me it was the American custom!!!

[Selene]

You told me it was the American custom!!!

I learned from William Jefferson Clinton...so in a way, it was the American custom...

[caroljane]

You told me it was the American custom!!!

I learned from William Jefferson Clinton...so in a way, it was the American custom...

You told me it was the American custom!!!

I learned from William Jefferson Clinton...so in a way, it was the American custom...

Well, that is the last time I accept arbitrary assertion. though the sight of your militia troupe all demonstrating the position, was retty persuasive.

[william.scherk]

I know the story of the memorial and I have seen the figures. Was there a logic to going with the naked look in the proposal submissions?

I am sorry, Adam -- I do not understand the question. Which 'proposal submissions' and which 'naked look'?

Drudge Report

Ah ...

You are indicating that there is no back lash from the public over the three figures on the towers. I have no clue, nor do I care, but that was what was in the paper.

I think it is hilarious.

I think it hilarious too, but perhaps it does not strike the same funny bone for both of us.

-- what I found funny-ha-ha and funny-peculiar was the 'focus group' excerpts ... I suspect that the findings of the focus groups were a lovely cherry tree of opinion, some this, some that, some the other. The UPI report, and the odd-spot CTV report relied on the age-old fallacy of composition. That is (at the Daily Mail) their job: to sell papers and tell a good story. If not a true story, if a garbled hash of ignorance and cynicism, oh well.

If some dumbfuck Canucki is quoted ("one woman said" ... "another person stated") being at sea in relation to nudity, WTC, Vimy, etcetera ... can we build a story on this?

Yes, yes indeed, and isn't that funny!

Edited May 12, 2012 by william.scherk

[william.scherk]

The Mythos I noted is one that should not have any significance for Americans, actually, thus my notes above. It is to Adam's credit that he both understands and appreciates the reality and notionality of one of our most important national myths.

Can anyone but an American patriot understand the Tomb of the Unknowns at Arlington National Cemetary? Can anyone but an American born or bred feel the emotions of the Vietnam Memorial in Washington? Can a Canadian hope to understand the intense feelings that might attend a hilarious story on US national monuments to service dead?

******************************

This is the most moving image of all that I have found of the Vimy memorial. It might just suggest to a non-Canadian what we commemorate, if not explaining anything of our Mythos, or providing bared breasts for added hilarity.

A painting by Longstaff, Ghosts of Vimy Ridge, from the collection of Parliament. It depicts the ghosts of the Canadian Corps.

I think I shall come back to this thread on November 11th. As a sobering tonic after the fun of OL's intercontinental Election Party!

Edited May 12, 2012 by william.scherk

[Selene]

William:

That is a stunning painting...I will treasure that image. The eerie setting, the lost souls wandering and wondering whether their sacrifice would be forgotten and whether it was worth the price.

Sad and stirring to me.

Adam

[syrakusos]

First of all, complaining about new designs is old. The Peace Dollar was denigrated for Liberty's open mouth (like she has catarrh), that she looks like an annoying telephone operator about to say "Wrong number!" that the coin was supposed to be "allegorical" and stamping the word "Peace" on a rock is hardly that, and more... Even the designer, DeFrancisci was unhappy... Then there was the Walking Liberty Half Dollar, another classic, but it looks like the sun is burning her toes... And even in the 1807, they accused John Reich of putting his own fat mistress on the coins. So, give it a rest.

Moreover, when it comes to (ahem) art, nothing beats American money.

[Robert Campbell]

When I read that the Vimy Memorial was dedicated in 1936, I wondered how it had survived German occupation during WWII.

But, as the Wikipedia article explains, it was put under Adolf Hitler's personal protection.

That may have had more to do with Hitler's desire to put himself forward as a war hero (his unit fought there, but as an Etappensschwein, he wasn't at much risk personally) than with any appreciation on his part of the monument's esthetics.

Robert Campbell

[Selene]

When I read that the Vimy Memorial was dedicated in 1936, I wondered how it had survived German occupation during WWII.

But, as the Wikipedia article explains, it was put under Adolf Hitler's personal protection.

That may have had more to do with Hitler's desire to put himself forward as a war hero (his unit fought there, but as an Etappensschwein, he wasn't at much risk personally) than with any appreciation on his part of the monument's esthetics.

Robert Campbell

Robert:

Are you making that conclusion and limiting it to that particular battle?

I just finished a book by a well respected military teacher who analyzes the leadership styles of Alexander, Wellington, Grant, Hitler and what he defines as Post Heroic Command.

In the section on Hitler, his valor in battle was quite a surprise to me because I was laboring under the impression that he did not serve well in WW I.

Adam

[Robert Campbell]

The author of a recent book on Hitler's service in World War I

http://www.amazon.co...36952946&sr=1-1

notes that Hitler's self-mythologizing (followed up with aggressive propaganda efforts after he took power) is still widely believed. Hitler even had medical records destroyed because they failed to support his personal mythology.

Hitler became a dispatch runner for regimental HQ not long after his regiment was sent to the front. He knew very little of life in the trenches. After the war, he was not well regarded by most of the veterans he had served with. (Etappensschwein translates as "rear-area pig.")

Weber is not a good writer, but his research on Hitler's military career is unlikely to be surpassed.

Robert Campbell

[Selene]

The author of a recent book on Hitler's service in World War I

http://www.amazon.co...36952946&sr=1-1

notes that Hitler's self-mythologizing (followed up with aggressive propaganda efforts after he took power) is still widely believed. Hitler even had medical records destroyed because they failed to support his personal mythology.

Hitler became a dispatch runner for regimental HQ not long after his regiment was sent to the front. He knew very little of life in the trenches. After the war, he was not well regarded by most of the veterans he had served with. (Etappensschwein translates as "rear-area pig.")

Weber is not a good writer, but his research on Hitler's military career is unlikely to be surpassed.

Robert Campbell

Thanks. I will check into it. Here is the book I was referring to:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Mask-Command-John-Keegan/dp/0140114068

[Selene]

Ok now I see where Keegan and Weber are in agreement...

A loner, an object of ridicule and a 'rear-area pig': Adolf Hitler according to his WWI regiment

By Dalya Alberge

UPDATED: 05:27 EST, 18 August 2010

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In Nazi propaganda, he was a gallant First World War corporal who frequently risked his life.

Now the myth of Adolf Hitler's heroism in the trenches has been debunked by research revealing he was little more than a 'teaboy' messenger dubbed a 'rear-area pig' by frontline soldiers.

No individual has been more scrutinized than Hitler, but detective work by Dr Thomas Weber, lecturer in modern history at Aberdeen University, unearthed new evidence.

'Rear-area pig': Hitler, seen here in a rare picture taken in Fournes, near Lille, in 1915. This was the only photo of Hitler included in the official 1932 regimental history of the List Regiment

Previously unpublished letters from veterans of Hitler's regiment have challenged the Nazi portrayal which suggested his virulent nationalism was prompted by his experience on the Western Front.

They overturn his image of his unit, the List Regiment, as a band of brothers, intolerant and anti-Jewish with Hitler 'a hero at its heart'.

They confront long-held views on Hitler’s brave war record, revealing that front soldiers shunned him as a “rear area pig” several kilometres from danger.

The letters and a diary also disclose that List men regarded him as an impractical object of ridicule, joking about his starving in a canned food factory, unable to open a can with a bayonet.

He was viewed by his comrades in regimental HQ as a loner. He was neither popular nor unpopular.

They referred to him as the 'painter' or the 'artist' and noticed that he did not indulge in their favourite pastimes – letter-writing or drinking – but was often seen with a political book in his hand or painting. He was also particularly submissive to his superiors.

An object of ridicule: Hitler with fellow dispatch runners in a never before seen picture in 1916

Dispatch runners: Hitler, front left, was a loner but neither popular nor unpopular among his peers, according to the fresh research

'The commonly held view that Hitler had the dangerous job of running between trenches to deliver messages simply does not stand up,' said historian Dr Thomas Weber yesterday.

He added: 'I found his role was to deliver messages between regimental HQ and, for instance, battalions or the HQs of other units. So he would have been between three and five kilometres behind the front. Far from being considered a hero, Hitler was regarded as a "rear area pig" by the soldiers.'

Dr Weber said that previous biographies have had to rely on evidence from Hitler and Nazi propagandists: 'Since Hitler was an ordinary soldier in the First World War, there was not an easily available file on him. Biographers didn’t dig deep enough.'

Hitler in 1934: Previous research on Hitler suggested he was a war hero

'The myth of Hitler as a brave soldier and the camaraderie of the trenches was used by the Nazi party from the beginning in order to extend its appeal beyond the far right.

'They went to great lengths to protect this idea and through my research I discovered that a memoir written by one of his comrades was significantly altered between its first publication in 1933 and the outbreak of the Second World War.'

He added: 'The story was that World War One created Hitler and radicalised him and led to the birth of the Nazi movement.

'But his life in the war really was his Achilles heel and the story could collapse like a house of cards.

'I've been trying to show that this is a totally made-up story. Hitler was untypical of the regiment and he was not really radicalised in the war.'

Within the Bavarian War Archives, he discovered papers undisturbed for almost nine decades. Elsewhere, he found unpublished letters and Nazi Party membership files, and traced Jewish List veterans.

It was known that Hitler served as a runner but, armed with new evidence, Dr Weber realises that historians have not distinguished between regimental runners, a relatively safe job, and battalion or company runners, who had to brave machine-gun fire between trenches – Hitler was a runner at regimental HQ several kilometers from the front, and living in comfort in a room.

He said: 'I never thought I would write about Hitler as so many books have been written. But I discovered we know next to nothing about Hitler and the First World War and virtually everything that we do know is based on Mein Kampf or Nazi propaganda. More than 70 per cent of my book is based on previously unused sources.'

In unpublished letters, Alois Schnelldorfer, who also served at List HQ, told his parents that his task was 'to sit in an armchair and make calls like a postmistress'.

He also confirmed the front-line view of more generous provisions than the men in the trenches: 'I can drink a litre of beer under a shady walnut tree.'

Speaking of Hitler’s famous 1st Class Iron Cross - the 2nd Class was a relatively common award - Dr Weber says this was largely due to the fact he knew officers who made recommendations.

The documents also make clear that virulent anti-Semitism did not exist, as an unpublished diary by a Jewish List soldier shows.

Also, although it was known that Hitler’s Iron Cross was recommended by Hugo Gutmann, a List Jewish adjutant, when Gutmann was incarcerated by the Gestapo in 1937, it was List veterans who enabled him to survive, Weber discovered.

Gutmann referred to a prison-guard who took risks to help him: 'As a good Catholic he despised the Nazis'.

Another List ex-comrade helped him to escape to America.

Dr Weber also unearthed evidence to show that the veterans of the List Regiment did not – as maintained by all Hitler biographies – unanimously support Hitler after the war.

An unpublished 1934 postcard by a Hitler admirer laments his being cold-shouldered by veterans in 1922. Dr Weber discovered that few front-line List soldiers became Nazis, whereas several regimental HQ staff were prominent in the party.

Dr Weber concludes that Hitler, who worked for a left-government after the war, became violently nationalist and anti-Semitic from the post-war and post-revolutionary economic and political crisis.

Dr Weber discovered that records had survived largely intact and were housed in the Bavarian War Archive, but that those pertaining to Hitler's battle group were filed not under the List Regiment, but under the higher division to which the regiment belonged. As a result, they had lain untouched for decades.

His research will be published in Hitler’s First War by Oxford University Press next month.

Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz1unli3ybX