Anarcho-Capitalism: A Branden ‘Blast from the Past’


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The Declaration of Independence, if the Bill of Rights fails, can be used in legal reasoning as an antecedent and supporting document to the Constitution. Why not? (The Bill of Rights is enough, but if referred to it logically says tear down most of Leviathan, so it's not. I mean, just read the damn thing!)

--Brant

has it, have they?

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I can’t let Rothbard’s name be uttered without wincing. Was it senile dementia, being a bad historian, or extraordinarily bad philosophy when he said the following?
Peter

Murray Rothbard wrote in “For a New Liberty”:
Taking the twentieth century as a whole, the single most warlike, most interventionist, most imperialistic government has been the United States . . . . Lenin and his fellow Bolsheviks adopted the theory of “peaceful coexistence” as the basic foreign policy of a communist state. The idea was this: as the first successful communist movement, Soviet Russia would serve as a beacon for, and supporter of other communist parties throughout the world.

But the Soviet state qua state would devote itself to peaceful relations with all other countries, and would not attempt to export communism through interstate warfare . . . . Thus, fortuitously, from a mixture of theoretical and practical grounds of their own, the Soviets arrived early at what Libertarians consider the only proper and principled foreign policy . . . . Increasing conservatism under Stalin and his successors strengthened and reinforced the non-aggressive, “peaceful existence” policy.”
end quote

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The Declaration of Independence, if the Bill of Rights fails, can be used in legal reasoning as an antecedent and supporting document to the Constitution. Why not?

Unfortunately, no. In strict constitutional construction, you can't even take notice of the Preamble. Preambles are unconstitutionally vague, no limitation of powers, if you see what I mean. If you view the Constitution as properly ratified, and durable (Civil War, changing social values, modern tsunami of redefined rights), and still widely regarded as a valid concordance among We The People, then each provision of power must mean something in particular. You can't bring unconstitutional language to bear, unless it illuminates the language of a provision. Legislative intent is sometimes considered, but abstract human rights are difficult to interpret in a question put to the court by petitioners and argued against by respondents. Law school articles can go anywhere and consider ancient sources, all the way back to Hammurabi. Courts can't -- or rather, shouldn't. The Supreme Court has made extremely bad decisions whenever they visited philosophy, anthropology, or Christian religion. I was taught that the most important thing a court can do is to dismiss a case and get rid of it, rather than hear arguments and make new law.

The judiciary is only one of three branches of constitutional authority. It's desirable to do as little as possible, thus avoid judicial tyranny that's bound to fail. Judges are appointed by the Executive and their organization and jurisdiction are managed by the Legislature. I've proposed something different, but that's the way it is under our constitution. If a U.S. President suspended elections (for any reason) the Court could (absolutely should) overturn martial law and declare it unconstitutional, fulfilling and exercising the Court's explicit constitutional duty and lawful power under "checks and balances" doctrine well established by The Framers and widely regarded as valid yet today by We The People.

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Because I probably don't understand it fully, I am flummoxed by debates on anarcho-capitalism versus the Randian model.

Oh. It's pretty easy to explain. Rand, Branden, Nozick, Hospers and all other respectable people advocate limited government that strives to uphold and defend individual rights. Not exactly a new idea. Rothbard suggested private security companies and arbitration, both which are quite common in the U.S. We have twice as many private security guards than "sworn" law enforcement officers. Almost all U.S. credit card and utility agreements stipulate arbitration.

Nothing else to discuss, is there?

:tongue:

Private security firms have been a growth industry for two decades in SA. I don't have to mention the crime level here. The State which is always running out of other people's money, needed to keep its voters not too discontent and replenish politicos bank accounts, has to scramble to budget for the police force. One which already had and has some corrupt elements, a degree of ineptness and an occasional habit of policemen delivering personal 'justice'. It's not rare that evidence, police dockets or witnesses 'got lost'.

Drive through the suburbs late at night and you'd see at least half a dozen badged security trucks, before seeing one police patrol.

The security firms have settled to become somewhat more reputable, but to begin with there were fly-by-nights, scamsters, turf wars and some intimidation of clients. Again, naturally, it would be more efficient and economical for a single firm to service an entire street or suburb (or larger), but humans being what they are, property by property in one road might commonly each display the sign of a different security company. Fine, competition. Not a good model for competing governments, though.

Partially, there exists here an inadvertent, de facto anarchy because of corrupt, bumbling Statists (who so far can't consistently implement and enforce their thousand regulations) and it works to our advantage. However, it's unlikely a visiting anarchist would think he's died and gone to anarchist heaven.

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Private security firms have been a growth industry for two decades in SA. I don't have to mention the crime level here. The State which is always running out of other people's money, needed to keep its voters not too discontent and replenish politicos bank accounts, has to scramble to budget for the police force. One which already had and has some corrupt elements, a degree of ineptness and an occasional habit of policemen delivering personal 'justice'. It's not rare that evidence, police dockets or witnesses 'got lost'.

Drive through the suburbs late at night and you'd see at least half a dozen badged security trucks, before seeing one police patrol.

The security firms have settled to become somewhat more reputable, but to begin with there were fly-by-nights, scamsters, turf wars and some intimidation of clients. Again, naturally, it would be more efficient and economical for a single firm to service an entire street or suburb (or larger), but humans being what they are, property by property in one road might commonly each display the sign of a different security company. Fine, competition. Not a good model for competing governments, though.

Partially, there exists here an inadvertent, de facto anarchy because of corrupt, bumbling Statists (who so far can't consistently implement and enforce their thousand regulations) and it works to our advantage. However, it's unlikely a visiting anarchist would think he's died and gone to anarchist heaven.

Tony,

Your post was so important that I quoted it in its entirety. We have competing security companies in America, different signs property by property in one road. We have corrupt, bumbling Statists who can't consistently enforce thousands of regulations, can't control our borders, can't keep track of expired visas, stolen guns, street thugs, or dope dealers. America is safer and richer than South Africa because we have a 75% white law-abiding majority -- but defacto anarchy is an inescapable condition everywhere throughout history.

The underground economy or black market, is very hard to measure. In developing countries, the informal sector has been estimated to account for about 36 percent of GDP. In developed countries, it has been estimated to be about 13 percent of GDP. [st. Louis Fed]

The shadow economy in Europe today is worth more than €2.1 trillion. [A.T. Kearny]

Dark Pools — which get their name for the lack of transparency in trading positions and participants — are mostly owned by big Wall Street banks and used for huge in-house trades and their own high-frequency trading operations. In the trading of its own listed stocks the NYSE’s market share is down from its lofty highs in the 1980s and ’90s, when it once hit 90 percent of all trades executed. Today, it’s a morale-sapping 25 percent. [NY Post]

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Kind of a shame you got left out of Wikipedia's polycentric law article, George.

You seem fixated on Wiki as a source to a degree that I fail to understand. But, yes, two of my articles (1979) probably should have been cited, given their influence on a number of prominent libertarian intellectuals: Justice Entrepreneurship in a Free Market ; and Justice Entrepreneurship Revisited: A Reply to Critics . The latter article converted Randy Barnett to my position, as he discussed in an article in the Harvard Law Review and in his book The Structure of Liberty.

Ghs

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say "Justice Entrepreneurship" was a significant breakthrough in sketching how the facts that give rise to the need for judicial services (the prospect of third party intervention) are the same facts that should be considered when assesing the likelihood that they will tend to be fair and impartial. Most people, in my experience, take the existence of protection and judicial services in a stateless society as a given and fail to deal with the more fundamental question of whether and why such agencies would exist in the first place, their objective and the likely means to accomplish that objective. This is a fault shared by anarchists and minarchists alike.

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...facts that should be considered when assessing the likelihood that they will tend to be fair and impartial. Most people, in my experience, take the existence of protection and judicial services in a stateless society as a given and fail to deal with the more fundamental question of whether and why such agencies would exist in the first place, their objective and the likely means to accomplish that objective...

I puzzled about this a long time, as if it were a query submitted by a space alien.

Fairness and impartiality (redundant terms) are not first principles or meaningful results of law enforcement. No police force now or in the future will emblazon the sides of their vehicles with the slogan "Fair and impartial." The customary slogan is "Protect and serve" which expresses the goal and constitutional constraints of law enforcement. The goal of policing is to protect (to defend) the innocent. However, police officers serve the courts, not the public as such, and they are forbidden to make conclusive judgments of guilt or innocence. That is the constitutional basis of being a "sworn" LEO -- neither judge nor jury, but rather an officer tasked to execute court orders. In a society governed by the rule of law, no court will penalize a cop for discharging an innocent person, unless that person was served with a subpoena to appear as a witness or summoned for jury duty. In rare cases a person can be detained as a material witness, but there are strict rules for discharging them as rapidly as possible.

We are not talking about the Executive Branch, nor a Legislature, nor military justice. Just courts and cops.

The fundamental reason why courts and cops exist in a free society is to implement the rule of law, an institution created by lawyers acting on behalf of their clients. The ancient origins of common law dealt with property and determination of succession and inheritance. Common law was augmented by equity jurisdiction in cases where money damages could not remedy a wrong. Evolution of jury trial, rules of evidence, criminal procedure, habeas corpus, and appellate review extended the rule of law as a matter of practical housekeeping occasioned by lawyers acting on behalf of clients, whose petitions and procedural motions forced judges to address technical questions that had to be decided in a way that was acceptable and applicable to a majority of petitioners.

The objective of law is to decide cases and controversies. The means are not mysterious.

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That's a hell of a lot better, Wolf, than extensively quoting yourself.

Occasionally a new question pops up.

It bothers me that Nepal took on board most of my suggestions in 'The Architecture of Liberal Democracy'.

Inclusiveness in Democracy, Yubaraj Sangroula, Kathmandu School of Law, 2005, pdf archived by Delhi High Court:

In liberal democracy, as Wolf DeVoon has pointed out, anarchic institutions like an open market for goods and services (survival of the fittest) plus the discretionary (arbitrary and self-serving) powers of public officials are limited by the rule of law. This understanding of liberal democracy is odd. Of course, the rule of law as an interesting and powerful concept inhibits public officials (including political leaders not in government) from abuse of powers. The concept of liberal democracy, indeed, encapsulates nicely the goal of a ‘free society’. Nevertheless, its principles and mechanisms fail to understand that ‘realization of the dream of a free society is not possible only by inserting political rights in the structure of the government’. The recognition and protection of economic and social rights is equally important to materialize the ‘dream of a free society’.

Based on opinion of Wolf DeVoon, liberal democracy without economic and social empowerment of population at large has resulted in:

1. Disparity in opportunity to, and consumption of, resources, thus giving rise to implausible gap of wealth between a smaller rich elite group and larger marginalized poor population.

2. Betrayal in legacy of liberty of the majority by imposition of economic subordination of smaller elite group. This concept has been dominant in political parties of Nepal. In 1990, when it was achieved they believed that ‘the problems facing the Nepalese society’ had been fully addressed. Lost in the mist of this misconception, they could hardly think of a ‘national vision’ for socio-economic development of the society. The ‘inclusion’ of the huge population that had been marginalized by the previous regimes was thus not an agenda of ‘political parties’. Obviously, several groups of disenfranchised population that were economically marginalized and socially alienated could sense no change in their lives even after the political change in 1990. This is, indeed, the crucial factor for loss of ‘credibility’ of the political parties as ‘development actors or change stimulators’.

Cardinal principles of ‘liberal democracy are Human Rights, Equality, Rule of Law, Individual Freedom, and Private property and Free Market. It is believed that the legitimacy of democracy as a system of government is derived from the human rights principle that ‘the human dignity is inalienable and uninfringeable’. Constituents of human dignity are right to life and personal liberty, freedom from slavery or exploitation and subordination, freedom of belief or decline to have belief, freedom of expression, and freedom of association and so forth. The right to equality is a guarantee to have protection against discrimination. The rule of law is a set of safeguards against arbitrary and tyrannical treatment by the authorities. It also means an efficiency in service from such authorities. The fairness in treatment by authorities is the crux of the concept. Individual freedom means the rights of people to make ‘free decisions for themselves and not be told what to do all the time’. It means a bundle of rights that allow individuals to lead the life they want to live. Finally, it is believed that people can own property, and also to make dispose of its in accordance with the choice.

A democracy without economic and social elements equally integrated, is defined to be merely a ‘political democracy.' As it has been understood, the political democracy demands free and fair elections, which are held regularly and in which all eligible citizens are allowed to vote. This right is however meaningful if there is commitment to fundamental human rights, equality, rule of law, individual freedom and private property and a free market. Further, in order to render these fundamental values workable, the power of the state is divided. This means that there is body that has power to make laws. Another body is there that has power to execute those laws, and there is another body that has power to adjudicate disputes. Liberal democracy thus rejects the idea of ‘one party democracy’ or ‘power in hands of one institution or person’. These characters of democracy are fundamental and important for a ‘free society’, but they not exclusive, and all. Democracy with these elements prevents autocracy, and citizens are freed to think and believe. However, in absence of economic and social empowerment and powers to participate in economic and social decision making process, the democracy is not perfect.

3. Violation of principles of democracy by rulers committing with impunity the crimes of corporate graft, political horse-trading, reckless military adventures or interference in civilian administration.

4. Denial of justice by courts as they strictly apply statutes and precedents without consideration of the merits of cases and impact of judgments.

5. Capture of public posts including party’s leading posts by politicians as irresponsibly and unchangeably [misquoted me there, should have been 'unchallengeably'] sovereign.

6. Marginalization of common population in a voiceless situation.

A little garbled, but they got the basic idea and ratified a secular constitution with proportional representation a couple months ago (Sept 2015). Saddens me that minority Madhesi are blockading highways, police responding with gunfire. Second country in a row that I screwed up.

Lawyers Have Lowest Health, Highest Rates Of Alcohol Use

Deservedly so.

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What if Clem, right on the streets of River City is whipping his horse? What if he beats his kids on Main Street with a belt? What if Clem pees in the reservoir? Thomas, and all of you decent people, do you think River City would REMAIN a good place without a sheriff, and human rights guaranteed in a constitution?

I guess this is where it gets really (and I mean very) hard to explain my exact thinking. I am still struggling to put it down on paper for my own sake in any spare time I get. My ideas are slightly different from most anarcho-capitalists I have yet to encounter. I don't think there is any way so far today to produce a lasting anarcho-capitalism.

Welcome to OL...are you a student, business person, or, worker?

It may be an assumptive problem that you're creating about framing it as a "lasting" anarcho-capitalism.

By the very nature of groups of folks banding together in reality implies a changing dynamic.

Nothing lasts forever.

A...

I would like to answer that I'm all of those things of course :smile: Right now I'm studying on my own outside of the public education system (which is normally the only accepted one here in Sweden). But I'm expecting to set up my new business in the coming months.
Nothing lasts forever as you say, but there is still a certain level of stability that i would like to see in a society. I would like to see that there is something constant that pulls it in the direction of objective morality and I would like it to last for as long as possible. To Rand, this was governments role, but ultimately I would like to see something different. "Capitalism" at the level that at least many anarcho-capitalists currently theoreticize about it, I don't think will be sufficient to pull it. There is no denying that with such capitalism there is likely to be some poverty and this could very well promt another bolshevik run or national socialism if uneased. If we are able to prevent such catastrophy, I think we should. Not by limiting capitalism as most nations do today, but by working as "social" agorists within capitalism itself to achieve new great solutions to these problems. These are problems that are human as much as they are economical and more than they are in specific due to capitalism, even though they can show as "poverty" under it.
My upbringing in Scandinavia has taught me that there are things we do bad here, but there are also some things which while they should not be done by government, our government does better than most governments on this earth. (And this is objective fact, not some partiotic nonsense that we all get to hear about our greeat great mother lands.) The numbers don't lie. Long term poverty in countries like the US is hurting society at large. In contrast the lack of long term poverty in Sweden is good for society. (Poverty here not to be confused with "inequality", which will always be needed) If a society at large is not functioning properly this increases the risk of harm to the individual sooner or later. That of course doesn't mean that we shouldn't be selfish, but that we need to take care enough about the world we live in, in order that we may live more well.
/Thomas
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What if Clem, right on the streets of River City is whipping his horse? What if he beats his kids on Main Street with a belt? What if Clem pees in the reservoir? Thomas, and all of you decent people, do you think River City would REMAIN a good place without a sheriff, and human rights guaranteed in a constitution?

I guess this is where it gets really (and I mean very) hard to explain my exact thinking. I am still struggling to put it down on paper for my own sake in any spare time I get. My ideas are slightly different from most anarcho-capitalists I have yet to encounter. I don't think there is any way so far today to produce a lasting anarcho-capitalism.

Welcome to OL...are you a student, business person, or, worker?

It may be an assumptive problem that you're creating about framing it as a "lasting" anarcho-capitalism.

By the very nature of groups of folks banding together in reality implies a changing dynamic.

Nothing lasts forever.

A...

I would like to answer that I'm all of those things of course :smile: Right now I'm studying on my own outside of the public education system (which is normally the only accepted one here in Sweden). But I'm expecting to set up my new business in the coming months.
.........................
My upbringing in Scandinavia has taught me that there are things we do bad here, but there are also some things which while they should not be done by government, our government does better than most governments on this earth. (And this is objective fact, not some partiotic nonsense that we all get to hear about our greeat great mother lands.) The numbers don't lie. Long term poverty in countries like the US is hurting society at large. In contrast the lack of long term poverty in Sweden is good for society. (Poverty here not to be confused with "inequality", which will always be needed) If a society at large is not functioning properly this increases the risk of harm to the individual sooner or later. That of course doesn't mean that we shouldn't be selfish, but that we need to take care enough about the world we live in, in order that we may live more well.
/Thomas

Thomas:

Great points.

This last summer allowed me to spend ten days at the NJ shore and we had a young Swedish girl stay with us since she was the girlfriend of one of the family's adopted young Vietnamese boy, who I have gotten to know quite well over the last two years.

Therefore, I got to talk with her quite a bit about Sweden, school and life there. She comes from well to do folks in Sweden, as does her boyfriend.

So, it appears that there are two distinct Sweden's, one that is the settled society you speak about and the other is the one we "see" in our media which appears to have an "immigrant" problem.

Now I know that I could do that easily in any state in this country because we have a very diverse and sparsely populated country with pockets of concentrated humanity that are amazing beehives of energy and constantly in flux.

However, we have a serious problem with the invasion of our nation.

Is the same change occurring in Sweden?

A...

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Welcome to OL...are you a student, business person, or, worker?

It may be an assumptive problem that you're creating about framing it as a "lasting" anarcho-capitalism.

By the very nature of groups of folks banding together in reality implies a changing dynamic.

Nothing lasts forever.

A...

I would like to answer that I'm all of those things of course :smile: Right now I'm studying on my own outside of the public education system (which is normally the only accepted one here in Sweden). But I'm expecting to set up my new business in the coming months.
.........................
My upbringing in Scandinavia has taught me that there are things we do bad here, but there are also some things which while they should not be done by government, our government does better than most governments on this earth. (And this is objective fact, not some partiotic nonsense that we all get to hear about our greeat great mother lands.) The numbers don't lie. Long term poverty in countries like the US is hurting society at large. In contrast the lack of long term poverty in Sweden is good for society. (Poverty here not to be confused with "inequality", which will always be needed) If a society at large is not functioning properly this increases the risk of harm to the individual sooner or later. That of course doesn't mean that we shouldn't be selfish, but that we need to take care enough about the world we live in, in order that we may live more well.
/Thomas

Thomas:

Great points.

This last summer allowed me to spend ten days at the NJ shore and we had a young Swedish girl stay with us since she was the girlfriend of one of the family's adopted young Vietnamese boy, who I have gotten to know quite well over the last two years.

Therefore, I got to talk with her quite a bit about Sweden, school and life there. She comes from well to do folks in Sweden, as does her boyfriend.

So, it appears that there are two distinct Sweden's, one that is the settled society you speak about and the other is the one we "see" in our media which appears to have an "immigrant" problem.

Now I know that I could do that easily in any state in this country because we have a very diverse and sparsely populated country with pockets of concentrated humanity that are amazing beehives of energy and constantly in flux.

However, we have a serious problem with the invasion of our nation.

Is the same change occurring in Sweden?

A...

Thank you. That's interesting.

Sure, "immigration", or rather the socialized version of it, is a huge problem, especially now with a lot of people coming from Syria etc. Though I don't want to negate your "invasion" I think that is a rather harsh term, if talked of an "invasion of immigrants" etc. This wording makes the hordes of people already living in a country think that what is to be feared are the bulk of the immigrants themselves.

When comparing The US to Sweden, we actually have much higher immigration and usually take better care of them in general even though the state handles this. States rights, Federal budgeting and the specifically American fear of "socialism" as being total Stalinism confuses and makes your sittuation much worse of course. But just meassuring the ammount of immigration, we have a much more serious issue at our hands.

The city that suffer the most from the problems associated with immigration today is probably Malmö. The law is not constructed to handle immigration on this scale and the politicians, nationally and locally, handle the issue very badly. Not to mention they of course grab for power much in the same way that US politicians do after any terror attack or other catastrophic event. But theres been nothing like indefinite detention here so far. I think politicians are not that stressed out. After all, almost noone even reacted when EU membership was written into the constitution, despite a rather large percentage of Swedes at the time objecting to much of what the EU stands for. It simply didn't make enough headlines, so it passed us by.

I remember back when most folks here thought "Sweden Democrats" (their name sounding much like the always very popular party "Social Democrats") wouldn't be able to get into parlament. I used to tell people that thought they were just another racist party that "there are in fact problems with immigration right now, that we need to fix before they get into parlament. Otherwise they will continue to grow even after that. And while the party heads are seemingly not explicitly racist but rather condemn it in very general terms, their core members and voters are and this could cause all kinds of problems!".

Well, what do you think happened? Did anyone listen? No. Of course not. And people still don't.

They think constantly attacking and trying to riddicule these new "underdogs" will make their voters feel ashamed, stop them from voting and force the party into submission. And no other party wants to work with them of course, because that would so far be political suicide. But isolation from other parties and their constant failures, just keeps the Sweden Democrats growing stronger and stronger. They are now polled at 20 (!) percent of all votes! This would make them the 3rd largest party and, as you can see in this link, puts them very close to both of the 2 larger parties.

Also, a lot of previously immigrated vote for The Sweden Democrats as well, mostly due to their own hatred of muslims/fear of islam that usually doesn't come from any deeper intellectual work, but rather from their own Christian roots.

So now we have a party that while it is constantly called "far-right" is equally socialist to everyone else, only they demand "tougher" laws on "crime" and other things. They want to ban the burka etc. (may not be their openly stated policy anymore, but that is just a front) They are rather "French" in their thinking I would say.

It could be a lot worse of course; The party used to be openly racist back in the days, complete with some party members wearing Nazi uniforms and saluting during party meetings. The current party leader was a member at the time.

Today their existence spurs on more socialist thinking in all parties, in the German/Italian style, while at the same time openly denouncing "socialism" and "the left" for destroying "our great country". The social "liberal" parties follow, but still don't want to be associated with the Sweden Democrats. It's a farce.

Just now the government stopped "all" immigration (not really all to be honest), but because of the this year already arrived 150 000 seeking asylum, we now have at least 30 000 and counting that are currently hiding from the authorities. - I wonder what line of work they will be in? What kind of living conditions they will have apart from being wanted, and due to the strict regulation of bussinesses we have here, almost fully unable to participate in the legal economy? And if they would report a violent crime if they saw it?

Meanwhile it seems (Marxist) Anarchists are making the news more and more often. Though their waving flags never gets mentioned because the news achors of course have got no clue what they actually mean, they are clearly visible at rallies against Nazis as well as Sweden Democrat's rallies. Things seem to be heating up for the moment.

Well anyhow, I guess rant complete. I'm going to stop whining for now. :tongue: I know we all have got our problems to deal with. But this I think is a very fair assessment of Sweden in it's current state, in regards to the ongoing politics. Everything is influenced by immigration right now.

I hope my text is readable and this answers your question well, despite any bad grammar that might have creept in there. Spell check marks almost every word for me because it is not Swedish... :smile:

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If "we" have problems what happens to "we" if you immigrate to another country?

--Brant

not sayin' you should--only sayin' "we" is more in our heads than not so "we" are encouraged to elect an elite who will--drum roll please--do our bidding, but what is our bidding?--rule us: rule us so we can rue about the rule while "we" ask for more rule to assuage our rues with wars of various sorts as sport

the United States is supposedly built on an individualistic ethos, but the government caught up with and ran over that a long time ago (but "we" still got our guns [if everybody packed heat the gangs--the one in Washington too--would soon be meek])

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I am a political animal and have been my whole life.

There are family pictures where I was giving out Ike literature with my father when I was 6 years old in 1951-2.

My father always said it was good to talk with folks and listen to them.

So, as Michael will agree with, I am a mega Trump supporter and that is part of the "branding" that I do with anyone that I speak with or meet, in terms of advancing the vote for Trump. Same way I still do to this day about Ayn.

Are you familiar with "Twisted Sister?" Dee Snider?

Twisted Sister frontman Dee Snider talks about how to feel confident when pitching, how to grab an audience’s attention and keep it, and what he learned from Donald Trump about branding:

http://www.deesnider...ret-to-branding

I'd like to hear more about your sight into Swedish society...and, of course, you can ask anything about America you may be curious about.

Have you ever been here?

A...

Twisted Sister frontman Dee Snider, who got to know Donald Trump as a contestant on “Celebrity Apprentice,” gave the Republican presidential candidate the go-ahead to use his hit song, “We’re Not Gonna Take It,” at his campaign events.

“He called and he asked, which I appreciated,” he told Canadian Business during a recent interview.

“I said, ‘Look, we don’t see eye to eye on everything—there are definitely issues that we’re far apart on.’ But thinking back to when I wrote the song and what the song is about, it’s about rebellion, speaking your mind and fighting the system. If anybody’s doing that, he sure is.”

But Snider didn’t see Trump as the only candidate fighting the system. He also sees someone who might be thought of as Trumps polar opposite in that role.

“Trump and Bernie Sanders are the two extremes. They’re raising holy hell and shaking everything up,” he said. “That’s what ‘We’re Not Gonna Take It’ is about.”

Snider’s approval was also based on the personal relationship between the two.

“And we’re friends. I have spent time with Donald and his family, Snider explained. “I don’t think either of us expected that we would like each other, but you know, Donald Trump is a pretty chill guy. He’s a frontman. When that camera goes on, he furls his brow, he does his thing. Off-camera he’s very self-deprecating. He makes jokes about being too orange and about his hair.”

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2015/11/30/dee-snider-reveals-why-trump-gets-okay-to-use-twisted-sister-song-were-not-gonna-take-it-279324

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Defective link, Adam.

I just pasted it in the post and this link

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2015/11/30/dee-snider-reveals-why-trump-gets-okay-to-use-twisted-sister-song-were-not-gonna-take-it-279324

Rushing too much tonight...

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If "we" have problems what happens to "we" if you immigrate to another country?

--Brant

not sayin' you should--only sayin' "we" is more in our heads than not so "we" are encouraged to elect an elite who will--drum roll please--do our bidding, but what is our bidding?--rule us: rule us so we can rue about the rule while "we" ask for more rule to assuage our rues with wars of various sorts as sport

the United States is supposedly built on an individualistic ethos, but the government caught up with and ran over that a long time ago (but "we" still got our guns [if everybody packed heat the gangs--the one in Washington too--would soon be meek])

Sorry, not sure I understand, but if this was meant for me then my answer would be that the I use the word "we" for many different groups of which I can be said to be a part, wether I like being part of said group or not.

For example, I am a "Swede" wether I like it or not. It doesn't mean that I define myself as "Swede" first and foremost, but that the word "Swede" is defined as such a person that I am.

I "belong" to said group, yet I don't "belong" to anyone. - Nonetheless, "we" (the swedes) have a political problem on our hands here.

So, as Michael will agree with, I am a mega Trump supporter and that is part of the "branding" that I do with anyone that I speak with or meet, in terms of advancing the vote for Trump. Same way I still do to this day about Ayn.

Are you familiar with "Twisted Sister?" Dee Snider?

Twisted Sister frontman Dee Snider talks about how to feel confident when pitching, how to grab an audience’s attention and keep it, and what he learned from Donald Trump about branding:

http://www.deesnider...ret-to-branding

I'd like to hear more about your sight into Swedish society...and, of course, you can ask anything about America you may be curious about.

Have you ever been here?

Trump, I see.

Many "libertarians" and others seem to like him. I can see why, but I also know that I personally would not support him given the conditions surrounding him.

I think he could very well make a mess for you that you would come to regret; Like sucessfully making all his bad qualities law and all of his good qualities not making it past the senate and /or the opinion of the majority of americans.

He is more of an egotist, than an egoist of course and this might cause him to do some things no matter what the majority says, but I'm not sure that is necessarily a good thing...

Twisted Sister, of course. Legends all over the world. "Dee Snider"? Didn't remember that was his name, but now that you mention him... Yeah, when I get through my huge(!) pile of books, that I have ordered such that the most important topics are the ones closes to the top, the first book I will read should be one of Trumps business books I think. I better order it now and place it under the rest of those books, just so I don't forget :tongue: My place is actually much more ordered than it probably sounds like at this point. :tongue:

I might write a few things about Sweden here/other thread in the future, if asked to or if anything I feel could be of interest should happen. Not promising anything, because I have a tight schedule at the moment, but I sure would like to.

I will remember to ask about the U.S. (/America means the U.S. in everyday conversations I guess?) if there should be anything!

I've never visited, but I've got some relatives over there like everyother Swede of course. And I'm also very active online when it comes to content from The U.S; watching video, live broadcasts, reading news, looking into statistics & studies, reading message boards, watching and discussing on Youtube and so on.

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Oh, don't be sorry for using "we." I use it frequently myself. I was simply trying to jar thinking.

--Brant

Right, that's what I thought. :smile:

By the way, does anyone have a suggestion for which browser this website is viewed best on? I'm currently using Chrome for most things, but there seems to be quiet a few gifs/java pieces missing for me. I'm not a programmer so I couldn't provide you the specifics of what is missing more precisely, only for example I can't preview most smileys and there seems to be a missing picture below profile pictures in threads.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just now the government stopped "all" immigration (not really all to be honest), but because of the this year already arrived 150 000 seeking asylum, we now have at least 30 000 and counting that are currently hiding from the authorities. - I wonder what line of work they will be in? What kind of living conditions they will have apart from being wanted, and due to the strict regulation of bussinesses we have here, almost fully unable to participate in the legal economy? And if they would report a violent crime if they saw it?

Meanwhile it seems (Marxist) Anarchists are making the news more and more often. Though their waving flags never gets mentioned because the news achors of course have got no clue what they actually mean, they are clearly visible at rallies against Nazis as well as Sweden Democrat's rallies. Things seem to be heating up for the moment.

Well anyhow, I guess rant complete. I'm going to stop whining for now. :tongue: I know we all have got our problems to deal with. But this I think is a very fair assessment of Sweden in it's current state, in regards to the ongoing politics. Everything is influenced by immigration right now.

I hope my text is readable and this answers your question well, despite any bad grammar that might have creept in there. Spell check marks almost every word for me because it is not Swedish... :smile:

http://www.expressen.se/gt/la-dod-orm-vid-likets-hals-jag-ar-ormradd/ <<<< this is in Swedish...Is this getting much attention?

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Just now the government stopped "all" immigration (not really all to be honest), but because of the this year already arrived 150 000 seeking asylum, we now have at least 30 000 and counting that are currently hiding from the authorities. - I wonder what line of work they will be in? What kind of living conditions they will have apart from being wanted, and due to the strict regulation of bussinesses we have here, almost fully unable to participate in the legal economy? And if they would report a violent crime if they saw it?

Meanwhile it seems (Marxist) Anarchists are making the news more and more often. Though their waving flags never gets mentioned because the news achors of course have got no clue what they actually mean, they are clearly visible at rallies against Nazis as well as Sweden Democrat's rallies. Things seem to be heating up for the moment.

Well anyhow, I guess rant complete. I'm going to stop whining for now. :tongue: I know we all have got our problems to deal with. But this I think is a very fair assessment of Sweden in it's current state, in regards to the ongoing politics. Everything is influenced by immigration right now.

I hope my text is readable and this answers your question well, despite any bad grammar that might have creept in there. Spell check marks almost every word for me because it is not Swedish... :smile:

http://www.expressen.se/gt/la-dod-orm-vid-likets-hals-jag-ar-ormradd/ <<<< this is in Swedish...Is this getting much attention?

Not really no. I would never have read it had you not brought it to my attention. Normally the only ones who take the oppurtunity to talk about these kind of incidents and their connection to immigration policy etc are the "christian values" kind of people, the nationalists and the racists. And as you can probably imagine, anyone who "agrees" with these people is branded as an idiot.

There have poped up several papers and sites dedicated mainly to revealing the faces, countries of origins and religions of those recently convicted or suspected of crimes. Unfortunately, they are mostly run by exactly these kinds of people and the more visitors they have the more revenue they get or the more they can at least propagate for nationalist parties.

It's not so much that these things don't get reported, but most things that are of greater importance either is not taken very seriously or is forgotten really fast. Ask a Swede what serious big political scandal/serious social issue was discussed last week, that did not include some populist politician promising great things for everyonge or some kind of celebrity, such as for example royalty, and most people don't have a clue.

Same goes for this http://www.expressen.se/gt/ulf-hittade-sin-dotters-grav-skandad/

Not much mentioning in general. The greater dilemma being, that what I think about instantly when seing this is not getting any mentioning either.

I can of course not prove yet that this has any connection to devil worshiping satanists at all, but it sure wouldn't be surprising. And that is not a joke.

Satanism both of the Laveyan and the more sadistic kind is on the rise. Especially, it can be heard on the radio. A lot of it is music coming from the US of course, but the most popular right now is homebrew. Heard of Ghost B.C? I live outside of town, so I listen to the radio now and then. Yesterday for example, when I was on my way home from the grocery store, the radio was playing "Year Zero". The song is basically a form of satanic mass. The show host applauding the song. Sure, there are maybee about 6 stations avaible and this is only one of them. But this is the one station people commonly tune in to when they want to hear any kind of rock and it has a ton of listeners. +It has played on other stations as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8RH8RO0eR0

Here is some more information on the topic.

http://sverigesradio.se/sida/avsnitt/169592?programid=2519

http://sverigesradio.se/sida/avsnitt/287410?programid=4067

(Ironically this information is provided by the state own radio, which is divided into several different stations/channels where "P" stands for program; P1, P2, P3 and P4 + an online station called P5. Each station/channel covers their own specific topics as well as news, usually provided in a form suited for the station. P1 being a station mostly for the elderly or the the intellectual left, P2 being a station that mainly just plays classical music, P3 plays modern and newly produced music from the international as well as local scene, most of which is of course american and provides comedy. P4 Provides local topics adapted to the interests and news regarding each separate province and caters to middle age people with generally somewhat less interest in the national and the least in international news and music.

Out of all of these channels, it should not come as a surprise though that P3 is the most "trustworthy" and overal most "balanced" in its coverage of topics.)

Though I respect of course the parts of modern Laveyan Satanism that is congruent with Objectivism, the rest is just awful stuff. I fear that Swedes will embrace ideology similar to that of Satanism rather than Objectivism. Not necessarily in a heartbeat of course.

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(Ironically this information is provided by the state own radio, which is divided into several different stations/channels where "P" stands for program; P1, P2, P3 and P4 + an online station called P5. Each station/channel covers their own specific topics as well as news, usually provided in a form suited for the station. P1 being a station mostly for the elderly or the the intellectual left, P2 being a station that mainly just plays classical music, P3 plays modern and newly produced music from the international as well as local scene, most of which is of course american and provides comedy. P4 Provides local topics adapted to the interests and news regarding each separate province and caters to middle age people with generally somewhat less interest in the national and the least in international news and music.

Out of all of these channels, it should not come as a surprise though that P3 is the most "trustworthy" and overal most "balanced" in its coverage of topics.)

Though I respect of course the parts of modern Laveyan Satanism that is congruent with Objectivism, the rest is just awful stuff. I fear that Swedes will embrace ideology similar to that of Satanism rather than Objectivism. Not necessarily in a heartbeat of course.

Thank you TH!

One of the reasons that I posted that is because it looked like the tabloids that are available here at super-markets, 7-11's and other "quick stop" types of stores.

So I am understanding that you live in what we would consider a "rural," sparsely populated area, "outside of town."

To hear that there are six(6) basic available radio stations is interesting.

In the US we live is a flood of date and media.

There was another story yesterday about Swedes buying guns in increasing numbers and the story is linked to the implied "invasion" of, basically, unwanted "savages" to Sweden.

There seems to be a fascinating disconnect between the "state media" and what is happening in reality here in the US.

Whereas, in Sweden, the "public" media is limited is what it sounds like to me.

Interesting insights into Satanism.

A...

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(Ironically this information is provided by the state own radio, which is divided into several different stations/channels where "P" stands for program; P1, P2, P3 and P4 + an online station called P5. Each station/channel covers their own specific topics as well as news, usually provided in a form suited for the station. P1 being a station mostly for the elderly or the the intellectual left, P2 being a station that mainly just plays classical music, P3 plays modern and newly produced music from the international as well as local scene, most of which is of course american and provides comedy. P4 Provides local topics adapted to the interests and news regarding each separate province and caters to middle age people with generally somewhat less interest in the national and the least in international news and music.

Out of all of these channels, it should not come as a surprise though that P3 is the most "trustworthy" and overal most "balanced" in its coverage of topics.)

Though I respect of course the parts of modern Laveyan Satanism that is congruent with Objectivism, the rest is just awful stuff. I fear that Swedes will embrace ideology similar to that of Satanism rather than Objectivism. Not necessarily in a heartbeat of course.

Thank you TH!

One of the reasons that I posted that is because it looked like the tabloids that are available here at super-markets, 7-11's and other "quick stop" types of stores.

So I am understanding that you live in what we would consider a "rural," sparsely populated area, "outside of town."

To hear that there are six(6) basic available radio stations is interesting.

In the US we live is a flood of date and media.

There was another story yesterday about Swedes buying guns in increasing numbers and the story is linked to the implied "invasion" of, basically, unwanted "savages" to Sweden.

There seems to be a fascinating disconnect between the "state media" and what is happening in reality here in the US.

Whereas, in Sweden, the "public" media is limited is what it sounds like to me.

Interesting insights into Satanism.

A...

That paper is actually avaible as a typical tabloid in print.

"Sparsely populated outside of town" sounds about right. About 5 kilometres outside and at the most 3 separate houses or so visible at a time. Something like 30-50 metres between each house in this little "village". Crops on a large (3 full properties or so) field nearby. You get the picture hopefully. :smile:

Yes, there are about six (should I be writing numbers in plain text btw? what is the common way in the english language) I guess.

No wait...no thats obviously wrong considering there are so many state owned. Let me think long and hard... There would be about 8-9 avaible. And that is of course only in this area, not counting the multiple stations avaible throughout the whole country or online.

How many would there be avaible in the US, say sitting in the comfort of your own home?

I can imagine certain Swedes buy guns, but most don't because they don't have a licence. I don't and would consider it too much of a hastle to get one. As much as I don't like the "savages" and "invasion" terminology, because it is mostly much to vague about who is a savage and who is not and what kind of invasion we are actually talking about. Like I said,(politicized) immigration sure is a problem.

There are a great amount of limits to what the state run media can do, at least in theory, in reality it is guided by what the public think is good behaviour. The "public" (as in "public" stocks etc) media in general is limited in many ways as well. I'm not the guy to ask for the judicial aspects of it all, but lets just say that I would not be able to start up a radio station myself. That is a no go. Unless I go podcast online of course.

Satanism... yes this been interesting me these last few weeks. I wonder if some people here would even classify it as "objectivism". I wouldn't, but to some the difference may not be all that obvious.

Objectivism clashes with religion, belief in mystical "magic" and political "might makes right" of course. Rituals themselves however are pretty interesting and an aspect that I have not really looked into from a perspective of objectivism so far.

- Could they be part of the life of an objectivist? Well, not a ritual in the literal sense, no. But what is a "ritual" even, in the terminology used by Rand?

Is thanksgiving a ritual? I would think so.

Is dinner held each year at a particular time for no other reason than to remind of the objective values a ritual? Probably not.

Is it a ritual if we make feeling, our primary concern during the dinner, but not in the long term? Probably not.

Can we then create situations which would look similar to rituals for an outsider and that might harvest the benefits that a ritual holds because it provides an element of stability to someones life? Perhaps. Interesting, I say. And this is something that I'm going to have to investigate in the future. Perhaps someone else already has the answer and all I need to do is start a new thread right here on this forum. We'll see :smile:

long rantadant off topic, over and out

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