Atlantis on the Sea


dennislmay

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Blueseed: 'Startup Incubator' Could Sail Past Immigration Law

http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2012/02/07/blueseed-startup-incubator-could-sail-past-immigration-law/?

I have seen several other similar concepts lately for condos and hotels on the sea. There are already factories on the sea [seafood processing], spacelauch facilities on the sea, and oil platforms the size of small towns. Lately I have been thinking about the idea of R&D facilities on the sea - a kind of Perimeter Institute on water. This is the closest thing to this idea I have seen yet.

Dennis

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Blueseed: 'Startup Incubator' Could Sail Past Immigration Law

http://realestate.ao...mmigration-law/?

I have seen several other similar concepts lately for condos and hotels on the sea. There are already factories on the sea [seafood processing], spacelauch facilities on the sea, and oil platforms the size of small towns. Lately I have been thinking about the idea of R&D facilities on the sea - a kind of Perimeter Institute on water. This is the closest thing to this idea I have seen yet.

Dennis

The first time I became interesting in this concept was prior to having read any of Rand. It was during height of the Hillary Care when it became obvious that socialized medicine would create large financial incentives for the best and brightest of medicine to go off shore - in this case not an island in the Carribean but ship or platform based medical facilities to get the good care you can't through the government.

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Yes! This has been suggested. There was a Project Atlantis in the late 60s early 70s run by "Warren K. Stevens" (Werner Steiffel). It was to be a ferro-cement ship and was to be funded with profits from a motel whcih itself was to be at once a serious business and also a focal point for libertarians. (And was specifically condemned by Ayn Rand.)

Google will take you to these and others:

•Operation Atlantis and the Radical Libertarian Alliance ...

royhalliday.home.mindspring.com/rla.htmCached - Similar

You +1'd this publicly. Undo

Feb 13, 2002 – So too was Warren Stevens, the author of The Story of Operation Atlantis and editor of The Atlantis News . I believe he preferred to do most of ...

•Links to Micro-national and Fantasy coins: Listings A3

www.oocities.org/erik_mccrea/linksA3.htmlCached

You +1'd this publicly. Undo

ATLANTIS (ATCOPS): Beginning in the late 1960s, Operation Atlantis was a “new country” project led by a man named Werner K. Stiefel/Warren K. Stevens, the ...

They even minted their own "dekagram" silver coins about like US half dollars in weight but chunkier. The ship sank.

Their story is told in How to Start Your Own Country by Erwin S. "Filthy Pierre" Strauss. Strauss grew up in Washington DC where his father was a refugee from the Nazis and worked as a diplomat. Strauss is well-known in science fiction fandom. A graduate of MIT, back in like 1961 or 1963, he was suspended for a year for having textbooks printed cheaply in Hong Kong. He had his own attempted "gambling ship" project which he funded by working for two years as an engineer in Alaska. To free himself for that, he sold his vitamin business to Durk and Sandy.

Anyway, anyone who wants to start their own country should read Filthy's book because it is a chronicle of the many ways that libertarians have done it wroing. My wedding present from an old friend was a Minerva gold/silver coin. Project Minerva was another attempt that failed when Ploynesians in canoes chased them off their reef. (Good thing it wasn't Navy SEALS.)

Another book you might consider is The Last Frontiers on Earth: Strange Places to Live by Jon Fisher. (I think there is a Volume 2 and Fisher authored another similar as well.)

About 10 or 15 years ago, I looked into the seascapes myself. (My first college certificate was in Transportation Management.) You really need to be comfortable among pirates. I am serious: real people who would really slit your throat, steal your stuff, and dump you overboard, and then look blank at any inquiry: "Joe? Joe who?" It was not for me. Call me a wuss... I am OK with truck drivers. I prefer airplane pilots. The sea is lawless, something every self-styled anarcho-whatever needs to think about. (Consider the recent case of Somalia. How many ships were taken? How many people hostage? Some for two years! Before the USA, UK, and China acted only because serious pressure was put on them by economic forces their own size. That ain't us.)

Maybe you'll be fine.

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A hotel casino could provide for building, startup costs and upkeep. If the floating island was populated and visitors were going and coming, from America, Canada, and Asia, it could be an interesting and profitable place, but the Pacific is very cold there, even in the summer. Heated pools and a desalination plant would be needed. Visitors could land in America then boat over to the site. It could be run like a cruise ship. Madonna and Celine Dion could play there.

Or, someone with an agenda could give it an edgy, gated community feel, but I think likening it to the Objectivist’s Atlantis or to anarchy would be a mistake. Pirates could take it over too. At what point would it piss off the US government? If it became an entry point for illegal aliens, or if smuggling occurred, or if as mentioned, it were a way for foreign workers to flaunt their noses at our visa system. If it broadcast popular, but uncensored material over the airways. If it was financed by a foreign government or if it had too many Chinese on board.

It’s reason for being, could make the expense sensible, but a duty free, enterprise zone on dry land makes as much sense. The owners would just need to coax California and the US Guv’mint with a piece of the pie.

Peter Taylor

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Yes! This has been suggested. There was a Project Atlantis in the late 60s early 70s run by "Warren K. Stevens" (Werner Steiffel). It was to be a ferro-cement ship and was to be funded with profits from a motel whcih itself was to be at once a serious business and also a focal point for libertarians. (And was specifically condemned by Ayn Rand.)

Google will take you to these and others:

•Operation Atlantis and the Radical Libertarian Alliance ...

royhalliday.home.mindspring.com/rla.htmCached - Similar

You +1'd this publicly. Undo

Feb 13, 2002 – So too was Warren Stevens, the author of The Story of Operation Atlantis and editor of The Atlantis News . I believe he preferred to do most of ...

•Links to Micro-national and Fantasy coins: Listings A3

www.oocities.org/erik_mccrea/linksA3.htmlCached

You +1'd this publicly. Undo

ATLANTIS (ATCOPS): Beginning in the late 1960s, Operation Atlantis was a “new country” project led by a man named Werner K. Stiefel/Warren K. Stevens, the ...

They even minted their own "dekagram" silver coins about like US half dollars in weight but chunkier. The ship sank.

Their story is told in How to Start Your Own Country by Erwin S. "Filthy Pierre" Strauss. Strauss grew up in Washington DC where his father was a refugee from the Nazis and worked as a diplomat. Strauss is well-known in science fiction fandom. A graduate of MIT, back in like 1961 or 1963, he was suspended for a year for having textbooks printed cheaply in Hong Kong. He had his own attempted "gambling ship" project which he funded by working for two years as an engineer in Alaska. To free himself for that, he sold his vitamin business to Durk and Sandy.

Anyway, anyone who wants to start their own country should read Filthy's book because it is a chronicle of the many ways that libertarians have done it wroing. My wedding present from an old friend was a Minerva gold/silver coin. Project Minerva was another attempt that failed when Ploynesians in canoes chased them off their reef. (Good thing it wasn't Navy SEALS.)

Another book you might consider is The Last Frontiers on Earth: Strange Places to Live by Jon Fisher. (I think there is a Volume 2 and Fisher authored another similar as well.)

About 10 or 15 years ago, I looked into the seascapes myself. (My first college certificate was in Transportation Management.) You really need to be comfortable among pirates. I am serious: real people who would really slit your throat, steal your stuff, and dump you overboard, and then look blank at any inquiry: "Joe? Joe who?" It was not for me. Call me a wuss... I am OK with truck drivers. I prefer airplane pilots. The sea is lawless, something every self-styled anarcho-whatever needs to think about. (Consider the recent case of Somalia. How many ships were taken? How many people hostage? Some for two years! Before the USA, UK, and China acted only because serious pressure was put on them by economic forces their own size. That ain't us.)

Maybe you'll be fine.

I have done some reading on the Minerva project and other attempts and proposals over the years including several land based communities both recent and historical. If it even gets started failure seems to come first economically, second from security problems, and third from internal problems. I agree pirates and irritation of nation states would be serious issues. For now ships for specific business reasons would seem more plausible because they can always change business without losing the entire capital investment.

Dennis

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Yes! This has been suggested. There was a Project Atlantis in the late 60s early 70s run by "Warren K. Stevens" (Werner Steiffel). It was to be a ferro-cement ship and was to be funded with profits from a motel whcih itself was to be at once a serious business and also a focal point for libertarians. (And was specifically condemned by Ayn Rand.)

Google will take you to these and others:

•Operation Atlantis and the Radical Libertarian Alliance ...

royhalliday.home.mindspring.com/rla.htmCached - Similar

You +1'd this publicly. Undo

Feb 13, 2002 – So too was Warren Stevens, the author of The Story of Operation Atlantis and editor of The Atlantis News . I believe he preferred to do most of ...

•Links to Micro-national and Fantasy coins: Listings A3

www.oocities.org/erik_mccrea/linksA3.htmlCached

You +1'd this publicly. Undo

ATLANTIS (ATCOPS): Beginning in the late 1960s, Operation Atlantis was a “new country” project led by a man named Werner K. Stiefel/Warren K. Stevens, the ...

They even minted their own "dekagram" silver coins about like US half dollars in weight but chunkier. The ship sank.

Their story is told in How to Start Your Own Country by Erwin S. "Filthy Pierre" Strauss. Strauss grew up in Washington DC where his father was a refugee from the Nazis and worked as a diplomat. Strauss is well-known in science fiction fandom. A graduate of MIT, back in like 1961 or 1963, he was suspended for a year for having textbooks printed cheaply in Hong Kong. He had his own attempted "gambling ship" project which he funded by working for two years as an engineer in Alaska. To free himself for that, he sold his vitamin business to Durk and Sandy.

Anyway, anyone who wants to start their own country should read Filthy's book because it is a chronicle of the many ways that libertarians have done it wroing. My wedding present from an old friend was a Minerva gold/silver coin. Project Minerva was another attempt that failed when Ploynesians in canoes chased them off their reef. (Good thing it wasn't Navy SEALS.)

Another book you might consider is The Last Frontiers on Earth: Strange Places to Live by Jon Fisher. (I think there is a Volume 2 and Fisher authored another similar as well.)

About 10 or 15 years ago, I looked into the seascapes myself. (My first college certificate was in Transportation Management.) You really need to be comfortable among pirates. I am serious: real people who would really slit your throat, steal your stuff, and dump you overboard, and then look blank at any inquiry: "Joe? Joe who?" It was not for me. Call me a wuss... I am OK with truck drivers. I prefer airplane pilots. The sea is lawless, something every self-styled anarcho-whatever needs to think about. (Consider the recent case of Somalia. How many ships were taken? How many people hostage? Some for two years! Before the USA, UK, and China acted only because serious pressure was put on them by economic forces their own size. That ain't us.)

Maybe you'll be fine.

I have done some reading on the Minerva project and other attempts and proposals over the years including several land based communities both recent and historical. If it even gets started failure seems to come first economically, second from security problems, and third from internal problems. I agree pirates and irritation of nation states would be serious issues. For now ships for specific business reasons would seem more plausible because they can always change business without losing the entire capital investment.

Dennis

On a related topic I have on and off discussed how to deal with pirates with a former Atlantis_II member. Dealing with pirates is not as big an issue as dealing with those nation states who will support pirates if you attempt to deal with them. Staying off pirate radar is the best way to avoid the issue before it starts.

Dennis

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On a related topic I have on and off discussed how to deal with pirates with a former Atlantis_II member. Dealing with pirates is not as big an issue as dealing with those nation states who will support pirates if you attempt to deal with them. Staying off pirate radar is the best way to avoid the issue before it starts.

Dennis

Sorry, I mixed my subjects. Yes, those kind of pirates are a problem. The South China Sea is loaded with them. We only got Somalia in the news because of US involvement in the region. So, there's all of that. But my initial intention was to warn you about the pirates on your own ship. International crews are problematic on many levels. I would not be any kind of officer on a ship like that.

Recently, the debacle on the Costa Condordia in January, where the captain abandoned the ship and the crew was useless, underscores the nature of the people who work at sea. Read about the MTS Oceanos (South Africa, August 4, 1991) where the same thing happened. (As I recall, the heroes there were the stage magician and a musical entertainer.) This link of shipping disasters includes a lot of hte usual expectations, but a few more horror stories with passengers missing, but the crew all surviving.

L. Ron Hubbard of Scientology lived on a ship for years because he did not want to deal with government restrictions. And the different governments that wanted to nail him never did anything about it. Michael

"During the late 1960s and early 1970s, he spent much of his time at sea aboard his personal fleet of ships as Commodore of the Sea Organization, an elite inner group of Scientologists. However, his expedition came to an early close. Britain, Greece, Spain, Portugal, and Venezuela all closed their ports to his fleet. At one point, a court in Australia revoked the church's status as a religion. Similarly, a high court in France convicted Hubbard of fraud in absentia. He returned to the United States in 1975 and subsequently went into seclusion in the California desert. In 1983 L. Ron Hubbard was named as an unindicted co-conspirator in an international information infiltration and theft project called "Operation Snow White". He spent the remaining years of his life secluded to a ranch near Creston, California, where he passed away in January 1986."

http://en.wikipedia..../L._Ron_Hubbard (Emphasis mine. - MEM)

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On a related topic I have on and off discussed how to deal with pirates with a former Atlantis_II member. Dealing with pirates is not as big an issue as dealing with those nation states who will support pirates if you attempt to deal with them. Staying off pirate radar is the best way to avoid the issue before it starts. Dennis
Sorry, I mixed my subjects. Yes, those kind of pirates are a problem. The South China Sea is loaded with them. We only got Somalia in the news because of US involvement in the region. So, there's all of that. But my initial intention was to warn you about the pirates on your own ship. International crews are problematic on many levels. I would not be any kind of officer on a ship like that. Recently, the debacle on the Costa Condordia in January, where the captain abandoned the ship and the crew was useless, underscores the nature of the people who work at sea. Read about the MTS Oceanos (South Africa, August 4, 1991) where the same thing happened. (As I recall, the heroes there were the stage magician and a musical entertainer.) This link of shipping disasters includes a lot of hte usual expectations, but a few more horror stories with passengers missing, but the crew all surviving.

I am not very familiar with commercial international shipping or their crews. I have heard corruption is an issue in much of the world. During the expected upcoming financial and international turmoil there will be much interest in going offshore in some form. It is hard to say what if anything might come of it. I do find it interesting that the vast majority of Mexico is considered unsafe for travel now. A friend had a very bad experience in the Bahamas several years ago - one should not forget that 1/8" under the surface they can behave like a 3rd world country. For reasons of logic I am more attracted to where others are not. As such I am prone to believe the best offshore place to go is where there is an industrial product to be mined or made and the climate keeps out the riffraff. A factory or mining town kind of place - remote and nasty but not so remote that you can't have more than one route for supplies and trade.

Dennis

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Michael,

If you are truly interested in L. Ron Hubbard's bio beyond Wikipedia, I suggest Bare Faced Messiah by Russell Miller (which you can read for free as a PDF on the link I provided) for an earlier bio, and the excellent Inside Scientology: The Story of America's Most Secretive Religion by Janet Reitman (of Rolling Stone magazine). This last is a recent bestseller.

I have read them both (I recommend them highly) and a butt-load of other things.

There are reasons Hubbard returned to land, but this does not negate the fact that he took to the seas and lived successfully there for years to avoid dealing with governments. He would have to make periodic stops for supplies, but he varied where he stopped.

In fact, he became the government on his ships and did some really icky stuff like throwing people overboard for discipline, but that's another tale to illustrate another topic.

Michael

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  • 5 months later...

http://www.facebook.com/BlueseedProject?filter=2

The latest issue of Discover magazine mentions increasing interest in Seasteading and the Blueseed project.

http://www.seasteading.org/about/staff-board-advisors/

There didn't seem to be anything new in the article but they did note that class envy political rhetoric may

be damaging the movement as people confuse the high up front cost of seasteading with lavish spending.

It would seem the purposes behind seasteading might be an easy political target in the current political

climate - though it is the current climate which is also driving interest.

Dennis

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