Tim Tebow - An Exemplary Individual - Hated by the Secular Left - By What Right?

[Selene]

TEBOW DAZZLES NATION...

BELIEVE!

I will be providing some of the quotes and articles from the secular left in a later post, but we should all celebrate Tebow's pursuit of excellence.

Adam

[Jonathan]

Aaron Rodgers:

“Well I started playing before Tim, so these are things I’ve thought about for a long time, and I think one thing that I try to look at when I was a younger player, and I mean, in high school, junior college, and Division one, I was always interested in seeing how guys talked in their interviews, talked about their faith, or didn’t talk about their faith. And then the reactions. I know Bob Costas at one point was critical about a player thanking Jesus Christ after a win, questioning what would happen if that player had lost, or do you really think God cares about winning and losing.

“I feel like my stance and my desire has always been to follow a quote from St. Francis of Assisi, who said, ‘Preach the gospel at all times. If necessary, use words.’ So basically, I’m not an over-the-top, or an in-your-face kind of guy with my faith. I would rather people have questions about why I act the way I act, whether they view it as positive or not, and ask questions, and then given an opportunity at some point, then you can talk about your faith a little bit. I firmly believe, just personally, what works for me, and what I enjoy doing is letting my actions speak about the kind of character that I want to have, and following that quote from St. Francis.”

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Would it be one day that a football player got deeply into Ayn Rand and started making the sign of the dollar in the air every time he did something good.

I wonder how that would go over.

I'm actually for Tebow doing what he does. That's part of the free speech thing I believe in. And if it's part of what keeps him playing the magnificent way he plays, well... if it works, don't fix it.

Michael

[studiodekadent]

Tebow clearly has a free speech right to do what he does.

Just as everyone that detests what he does has a free speech right to form any opinion about it they wish.

My opinions about Evangelical Christians (that they surrender their humanity and debase themselves in the most appalling way by deliberately choosing not to think for themselves and to instead allow the Bible to do all the thinking for them... as such they are weak, pathetic, and I find it very, very difficult to consider them truly human in anything other than a strictly biological sense) are well known on this board.

Now, not all sportsmen are dumb jock brutes. But quite a few (in my experience) are, and they act with that epistemic pack mentality (defer to the Alpha in order to be relieved of that oh-so-crushing responsibility to make independent judgments). Evangelical Christians easily fall into the same trap (defer to the Pastor etc etc). I don't know Tebow personally, so I can only be tentative, but I think its reasonable to assume he has a high probability of being a total pack animal. I'd be pleasantly surprised if he weren't. Then of course there's his sport, which some like, but I personally find distasteful.

But, whilst I can't speak for the secular left (being a secular classical liberal and thus not a leftist), everything I've seen so far pretty much shows he's the archetypal embodiment of "Faith And Force Are Corrolaries."

[Note: all the above is tentative and subject to revision if I actually talk to him, but so far I have absolutely no interest in doing so]

[Dennis Hardin]

Adam,

Tebow did not exactly pursue excellence for three quarters yesterday. Prior to the fourth quarter, he had completed just 3 of 16 passes for 45 yards.

Because he was so awful for three quarters, Denver would have had no chance of winning except for Chicago’s Marion Barber stupidly running out of bounds with 1:55 left to play. If Barber had remained in bounds, Chicago could have run out the clock and Tebow never would have touched the ball again. But Barber’s flub made it possible for Tebow to march the Broncos to the Chicago 40 where the true hero of the day, Matt Prater, kicked a truly amazing 59 yard field goal to tie the game.

In OT, Chicago’s Barber bailed out Denver again. He fumbled with Chicago on the Bronco’s 33-yard line, well within range for Chicago’s kicker, Robbie Gould, to win the game. Following that critical mistake by Chicago, Tebow was only able to get the Broncos slightly closer this time, and Prater had to kick another 50 plus yard field goal for the win.

If anyone should get credit for his superior performance yesterday, it should be Bronco kicker Matt Prater, not Tim Tebow.

As for the extraordinary streak of luck Tebow is having, God has to get the credit for that, because Tebow's total ineptitude for most of the games he has won is so glaringly obvious.

Secularists—regardless of their political orientation—know that’s a joke, and they have every right to laugh at such claptrap.

[studiodekadent]

Adam,

Tebow did not exactly pursue excellence for three quarters yesterday. Prior to the fourth quarter, he had completed just 3 of 16 passes for 45 yards.

Because he was so awful for three quarters, Denver would have had no chance of winning except for Chicago’s Marion Barber stupidly running out of bounds with 1:55 left to play. If Barber had remained in bounds, Chicago could have run out the clock and Tebow never would have touched the ball again. But Barber’s flub made it possible for Tebow to march the Broncos to the Chicago 40 where the true hero of the day, Matt Prater, kicked a truly amazing 59 yard field goal to tie the game.

In OT, Chicago’s Barber bailed out Denver again. He fumbled with Chicago on the Bronco’s 33-yard line, well within range for Chicago’s kicker, Robbie Gould, to win the game. Following that critical mistake by Chicago, Tebow was only able to get the Broncos slightly closer this time, and Prater had to kick another 50 plus yard field goal for the win.

If anyone should get credit for his superior performance yesterday, it should be Bronco kicker Matt Prater, not Tim Tebow.

As for the extraordinary streak of luck Tebow is having, God has to get the credit for that, because Tebow's total ineptitude for most of the games he has won is so glaringly obvious.

Secularists—regardless of their political orientation—know that’s a joke, and they have every right to laugh at such claptrap.

Whilst I have no experience in American Football and therefore cannot comment on the technical issues raised by Dennis (although I've heard other Gridiron fans raise similar points about Tebow's play style), I too will be laughing wildly with delicious schadenfreude when Tebow's luck runs out, and peppering said laughter with gloating statements of the form "where's your God now?!?!?"

[PDS]

Aaron Rodgers:

“Well I started playing before Tim, so these are things I’ve thought about for a long time, and I think one thing that I try to look at when I was a younger player, and I mean, in high school, junior college, and Division one, I was always interested in seeing how guys talked in their interviews, talked about their faith, or didn’t talk about their faith. And then the reactions. I know Bob Costas at one point was critical about a player thanking Jesus Christ after a win, questioning what would happen if that player had lost, or do you really think God cares about winning and losing.

“I feel like my stance and my desire has always been to follow a quote from St. Francis of Assisi, who said, ‘Preach the gospel at all times. If necessary, use words.’ So basically, I’m not an over-the-top, or an in-your-face kind of guy with my faith. I would rather people have questions about why I act the way I act, whether they view it as positive or not, and ask questions, and then given an opportunity at some point, then you can talk about your faith a little bit. I firmly believe, just personally, what works for me, and what I enjoy doing is letting my actions speak about the kind of character that I want to have, and following that quote from St. Francis.”

My respect for Aaron Rogers just went up.

[Selene]

Aaron Rodgers:

“Well I started playing before Tim, so these are things I’ve thought about for a long time, and I think one thing that I try to look at when I was a younger player, and I mean, in high school, junior college, and Division one, I was always interested in seeing how guys talked in their interviews, talked about their faith, or didn’t talk about their faith. And then the reactions. I know Bob Costas at one point was critical about a player thanking Jesus Christ after a win, questioning what would happen if that player had lost, or do you really think God cares about winning and losing.

“I feel like my stance and my desire has always been to follow a quote from St. Francis of Assisi, who said, ‘Preach the gospel at all times. If necessary, use words.’ So basically, I’m not an over-the-top, or an in-your-face kind of guy with my faith. I would rather people have questions about why I act the way I act, whether they view it as positive or not, and ask questions, and then given an opportunity at some point, then you can talk about your faith a little bit. I firmly believe, just personally, what works for me, and what I enjoy doing is letting my actions speak about the kind of character that I want to have, and following that quote from St. Francis.”

My respect for Aaron Rogers just went up.

PDS:

Agreed. Nicely phrased. I live with a Packer fanatic and Rodgers impresses the hell out of me! I believe that seventeen different Packers have scored this season. Rodgers is a superior team leader.

Adam

[Selene]

COMMON SENSE

Quarterbacking Our Country: Tebow Style

Updated: December 12, 2011 | 4:00 p.m.

December 12, 2011 | 12:30 p.m.

Last night, watching Denver quarterback Tim Tebow’s post-game press appearance and President Obama’s interview on CBS’s 60 Minutes, I was struck by the fact that one man is offering his team (and the country actually) the leadership they need while the other is trapped in traditional discourse and scoring political points.

Tebow is not even close to the most physically talented quarterback in the NFL (and he probably isn’t even the most physically talented quarterback on his own team), but he has taken a team sitting in the cellar and lifted it up to playoff contention.

Do I buy into some intervention by God because Tebow is a man of incredible religious faith? No. I do believe there is a divine presence in every one of us and in every thing, and the power of that presence remains a mystery of the ages. It can’t be proven or disproven by an intellectual conversation or scientific method, but it is hard not to accept if you are a person of faith and connection to something outside our mere humanity. Yet that is not what this Denver rise and winning streak is about.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/columns/common-sense/quarterbacking-our-country-tebow-style-20111212

Folks:

I posted the Tebow thread because it cuts to key sentiments that run deeply in the American psyche.

The spate of attention about him after yet another tremendous team comeback under his leadership is also in the DNA of every American.

We do not give in. We do not surrender. We achieve.

Adam

[Backlighting]

I spoke with an NFL player here who, shaking his head, stated "After the first play of the first game I played in the NFL my body was never the same".

Serious money made in a usually short & dangerous career (3.5 years). I believe you need to play for 5 years to earn a pension.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/15527-long-average-career-nfl-player/

[Backlighting]

Would it be one day that a football player got deeply into Ayn Rand and started making the sign of the dollar in the air every time he did something good.

Happily sung to the tune of the Beach Boys "Wouldn't it be nice"

Care to pen the lyrics?

[caroljane]

Would it be one day that a football player got deeply into Ayn Rand and started making the sign of the dollar in the air every time he did something good.

Happily sung with the vocals of the Beach Boys "Wouldn't it be nice"

Care to pen the lyrics?

"Wouldn't it be nice if we'd just wake up

and think with our own minds,

and go, "it's dumb to pound and shake up

all our heads and our behinds"

Oh we could be healthy eee..

and we could be ..maybe insurance salesmen...

Oh wouldn't it be... oh never mind."

[Backlighting]

Would it be one day that a football player got deeply into Ayn Rand and started making the sign of the dollar in the air every time he did something good.

Happily sung with the vocals of the Beach Boys "Wouldn't it be nice"

Care to pen the lyrics?

"Wouldn't it be nice if we'd just wake up

and think with our own minds,

and go, "it's dumb to pound and shake up

all our heads and our behinds"

Oh we could be healthy eee..

and we could be ..maybe insurance salesmen...

Oh wouldn't it be... oh never mind."

A for effort!

[Dennis Hardin]

As for the extraordinary streak of luck Tebow is having, God has to get the credit for that, because Tebow's total ineptitude for most of the games he has won is so glaringly obvious.

Secularists—regardless of their political orientation—know that’s a joke, and they have every right to laugh at such claptrap.

Whilst I have no experience in American Football and therefore cannot comment on the technical issues raised by Dennis (although I've heard other Gridiron fans raise similar points about Tebow's play style), I too will be laughing wildly with delicious schadenfreude when Tebow's luck runs out, and peppering said laughter with gloating statements of the form "where's your God now?!?!?"

"Thank you, Lord, for making Marion Barber screw up big time so we could win the game!"

[Jonathan]

You football fans might enjoy this. A friend just sent me this clip of a punt returner doing a "Matrix" maneuver:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qjsSzRkL8c&

J

[Selene]

Another perfect example of the repressive environment in the secular and incompetent public school system.

I know this High School well. These assholes suspended this young man for "Tebowing" in the hall between classes.

http://espn.go.com/n...pended-tebowing

Young man's statement is that he respects Tim Tebow because he is 1) not doing steroids; 2) a leader; 3) a role model; and 4) a person that has strong faith.

Yep, let's send him to the re-education camp.

I hate this alleged "educational" system. Lesson from the system...obey, do not think for yourself and never express yourself unless we approve.

Fuck em.

Adam

[studiodekadent]

Another perfect example of the repressive environment in the secular and incompetent public school system.

I know this High School well. These assholes suspended this young man for "Tebowing" in the hall between classes.

http://espn.go.com/n...pended-tebowing

Young man's statement is that he respects Tim Tebow because he is 1) not doing steroids; 2) a leader; 3) a role model; and 4) a person that has strong faith.

Yep, let's send him to the re-education camp.

I hate this alleged "educational" system. Lesson from the system...obey, do not think for yourself and never express yourself unless we approve.

Fuck em.

Adam

Adam,

I hope you're not intending to package-deal "secular" with "incompetent," or with "anti-religious."

I am a militant angry atheist but "secular" doesn't mean anti-religious. It means nonreligious. Neither for or against religion. Religiously neutral.

I absolutely agree that stopping individual students from expressing their personal religious views, or preventing voluntary practice of their religious faith during free time, is a gross violation of the First Ammendment (however, if their mode of expression (i.e. screaming "God Hates Fags" regularly) constitutes genuine bullying of other students, then I don't believe it can be defended under the First Ammendment.. a school's anti-bullying policy may properly restrict certain modes of expression of speech).

If a school bans students from voluntarily praying during their free time, then that school clearly is in the wrong.

[Selene]

Another perfect example of the repressive environment in the secular and incompetent public school system.

I know this High School well. These assholes suspended this young man for "Tebowing" in the hall between classes.

http://espn.go.com/n...pended-tebowing

Young man's statement is that he respects Tim Tebow because he is 1) not doing steroids; 2) a leader; 3) a role model; and 4) a person that has strong faith.

Yep, let's send him to the re-education camp.

I hate this alleged "educational" system. Lesson from the system...obey, do not think for yourself and never express yourself unless we approve.

Fuck em.

Adam

Adam,

I hope you're not intending to package-deal "secular" with "incompetent," or with "anti-religious."

I am a militant angry atheist but "secular" doesn't mean anti-religious. It means nonreligious. Neither for or against religion. Religiously neutral.

I absolutely agree that stopping individual students from expressing their personal religious views, or preventing voluntary practice of their religious faith during free time, is a gross violation of the First Ammendment (however, if their mode of expression (i.e. screaming "God Hates Fags" regularly) constitutes genuine bullying of other students, then I don't believe it can be defended under the First Ammendment.. a school's anti-bullying policy may properly restrict certain modes of expression of speech).

If a school bans students from voluntarily praying during their free time, then that school clearly is in the wrong.

Another perfect example of the repressive environment in the secular and incompetent public school system.

I know this High School well. These assholes suspended this young man for "Tebowing" in the hall between classes.

http://espn.go.com/n...pended-tebowing

Young man's statement is that he respects Tim Tebow because he is 1) not doing steroids; 2) a leader; 3) a role model; and 4) a person that has strong faith.

Yep, let's send him to the re-education camp.

I hate this alleged "educational" system. Lesson from the system...obey, do not think for yourself and never express yourself unless we approve.

Fuck em.

Adam

Adam,

I hope you're not intending to package-deal "secular" with "incompetent," or with "anti-religious."

I am a militant angry atheist but "secular" doesn't mean anti-religious. It means nonreligious. Neither for or against religion. Religiously neutral.

I absolutely agree that stopping individual students from expressing their personal religious views, or preventing voluntary practice of their religious faith during free time, is a gross violation of the First Ammendment (however, if their mode of expression (i.e. screaming "God Hates Fags" regularly) constitutes genuine bullying of other students, then I don't believe it can be defended under the First Ammendment.. a school's anti-bullying policy may properly restrict certain modes of expression of speech).

If a school bans students from voluntarily praying during their free time, then that school clearly is in the wrong.

Andrew:

Absolutely no package deal intended.

Secular in no way means incompetent.

sec·u·lar

adj \ˈse-kyə-lər\

Definition of SECULAR

1a : of or relating to the worldly or temporal <secular concerns>

b : not overtly or specifically religious <secular music>

c : not ecclesiastical or clerical <secular courts> <secular landowners>

Ran across this organization in my quick search: Secular Coalition for America...http://secular.org/ - interesting "coalition."

• American Atheists
  
• American Ethical Union
  
• American Humanist Association
  

• Atheist Alliance of America
  
• Camp Quest
  
• Council for Secular Humanism
  

• Institute for Humanist Studies
  
• Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers
  

• Secular Student Alliance
  
• Society for Humanistic Judaism
  

Advisory Board

• Woody Kaplan, Chair
  
• Robert Boston
  
• Richard Dawkins
  
• Daniel Dennett
  

• Bruce Flamm
  
• Sam Harris
  
• Jeff Hawkins
  
• Christopher Hitchens <<<<
  

• Susan Jacoby
  
• Wendy Kaminer
  
• Michael Newdow
  
• Massimo Pigliucci
  

• Steven Pinker
  
• Salman Rushdie
  
• Ellery Schempp
  
• Julia Sweeney
  

Additionally, I completely agree with you as to the students rights to non-violently voice their opinions, secular, or non secular.

Adam

[Selene]

Tebow speaks to a deep desire for a role model and refusing to understand it will not help us spread our ideas.

Take a look at how this simple gesture is exploding culturally. It also seems to be heavily male dominated, but that could be the selection by the website.

http://tebowing.com/page/2

[anthony]

Aaron Rodgers: “Well I started playing before Tim, so these are things I’ve thought about for a long time, and I think one thing that I try to look at when I was a younger player, and I mean, in high school, junior college, and Division one, I was always interested in seeing how guys talked in their interviews, talked about their faith, or didn’t talk about their faith. And then the reactions. I know Bob Costas at one point was critical about a player thanking Jesus Christ after a win, questioning what would happen if that player had lost, or do you really think God cares about winning and losing. “I feel like my stance and my desire has always been to follow a quote from St. Francis of Assisi, who said, ‘Preach the gospel at all times. If necessary, use words.’ So basically, I’m not an over-the-top, or an in-your-face kind of guy with my faith. I would rather people have questions about why I act the way I act, whether they view it as positive or not, and ask questions, and then given an opportunity at some point, then you can talk about your faith a little bit. I firmly believe, just personally, what works for me, and what I enjoy doing is letting my actions speak about the kind of character that I want to have, and following that quote from St. Francis.”

My respect for Aaron Rogers just went up.

Yes, that's a man I could respect. Dignity and privacy are virtues in any sphere, I think. Extravagant show isn't my thing.

I was having this reverie of what an ace atheist athlete, not that I've heard of any, (...hmm mmm - d'ya think there's something..? ah, never mind) would do after scoring goal, touchdown, winning race or whatever.

Would he thump his chest, kiss his hands?

I shudder - OK, a little quiver - to imagine.

Is it not possible to keep things to oneself? until appropriate anyway..

I

[studiodekadent]

Tebow speaks to a deep desire for a role model and refusing to understand it will not help us spread our ideas.

I agree. People like to see their values embodied in concrete form. Other people provide this, so can fictional characters (hence why Rand's books are so popular).

This is why I think Objectivists should endeavour to get into pop culture as well as pop culture analysis. Ivory Tower Cerebral Masturbation, whilst fun and useful, generally takes a very very long time to reach the general population.

[Selene]

Tebow speaks to a deep desire for a role model and refusing to understand it will not help us spread our ideas.

I agree. People like to see their values embodied in concrete form. Other people provide this, so can fictional characters (hence why Rand's books are so popular).

This is why I think Objectivists should endeavour to get into pop culture as well as pop culture analysis. Ivory Tower Cerebral Masturbation, whilst fun and useful, generally takes a very very long time to reach the general population.

Andrew:

Correct. One of the reasons that I have been so successful in bringing folks to Ayh's ideas is precisely because I look to bond with where they are and then make the bridge to her ideas.

One of my most powerful convincing illustrations is the mother bird and the fledgling analogy that she used. You can literally see the tumblers clicking in their eyes as their mind opens up.

Adam

[Selene]

Even then they knew...

[James Heaps-Nelson]

Well, Tim Tebow had about as awful a performance as you can have today. The Broncos lost 7-3, only managing a field goal all game. The Borncos have lost their last 3 games, but managed to win the division at 8-8 on a tiebreaker. The Broncos are also dead last in the league in passing yards. Somehow I don't think divine intervention is going to help when the 12-4 Pittsburgh Steelers come to Denver next Sunday. The donkeys better come up with something superior to this week's performance, that's for sure.

Jim

[Dennis Hardin]

Well, Tim Tebow had about as awful a performance as you can have today. The Broncos lost 7-3, only managing a field goal all game. The Borncos have lost their last 3 games, but managed to win the division at 8-8 on a tiebreaker. The Broncos are also dead last in the league in passing yards. Somehow I don't think divine intervention is going to help when the 12-4 Pittsburgh Steelers come to Denver next Sunday. The donkeys better come up with something superior to this week's performance, that's for sure.

Jim

Tebow completes only 6 of 22 passes for 60 yards, yet they win the division and go to the play-offs. What else could that be but divine intervention?

in his discussions with God this week, do you suppose Tim will mention something about Big Ben's ankle? "If it wouldn't be too much trouble, God, could you maybe delay that healing process just a few days? It would really mean a lot to me."