Neighbors from Hell - Sourced List of OWS Supporters

[sbeaulieu]

I compared it to Pork Chop Hill, Korean War, in a conversation last night.

What do you see the taking of as no value with regard to the Occupy movement? From the leadership or followership angle?

~ Shane

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Who says it's over?

Only one phase is over.

Michael

[Selene]

I compared it to Pork Chop Hill, Korean War, in a conversation last night.

What do you see the taking of as no value with regard to the Occupy movement? From the leadership or followership angle?

~ Shane

Shane:

The leadership gains by increa sing frustration in it's followers and by weakening the system by draining it's resources, [Piven model]. Any insurgency operates on this premise, e.g., Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc.

The followership gets subconscious reinrorcement of the futility of the actions to date and the recommitment to the cause!

Not sure I got what you asked correctly understood by me though.

Adam

[Selene]

Who says it's over?

Only one phase is over.

Michael

Oh, I agree, it is just beginning.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I caught a comment on Beck's radio show this morning that I thought was interesting.

One of his sidekicks (I think it was Stu) said that he was watching the live feed of the shut-down Wall Street attempt and this gave a different impression than seeing the highlights.

When you watch 45 minutes or so, you see the crowd baiting the police in every manner imaginable, but the police reacting politely. Finally the time to advance comes and the police calmly tell the protesters not to advance. Once they start and the police start arresting them, several assume almost canned expressions and body positions as they scream, "Police brutality!" and "Media!" and "The whole world is watching!" and so on.

To be a cop under those conditions is a test of discipline that makes US Marine basic training seem like a kindergarten birthday party. (Well... maybe I exaggerate a wee bit, but you know what I mean... )

The protesters who manage to get caught on camera with the strongest images of being beaten and savaged victims even have a special name: "the arrestables."

I have seen video somewhere of teachers instructing protesters on how to become arrestables.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

They had to do it.

They went ahead and lost Jon Stewart.

After 2 months, OWS already had a ghetto section in the park and the comedian could not resist.

By losing JS, they blew it. This round is now toast.

<div style="background-color:#000000;width:520px;"><div style="padding:4px;"><embed src="http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:video:thedailyshow.com:402475" width="512" height="288" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" base="." flashVars=""></embed><p style="text-align:left;background-color:#FFFFFF;padding:4px;margin-top:4px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;"><b><a href="http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-november-16-2011/occupy-wall-street-divided">The Daily Show with Jon Stewart</a></b><br/>Get More: <a href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/'>Daily Show Full Episodes</a>,<a href='http://www.indecisionforever.com/'>Political Humor & Satire Blog</a>,<a href='http://www.facebook.com/thedailyshow'>The Daily Show on Facebook</a></p></div></div>

Not to get too comfortable, though.

Van Jones is on the horizon. He said to CNN, “You haven’t seen anything yet.”

He better hurry. He's only got until 2013 at the swearing in ceremony. (I want that to be a quip, but a guy like him can do a lot of damage by then.)

Michael

[sbeaulieu]

I compared it to Pork Chop Hill, Korean War, in a conversation last night.

What do you see the taking of as no value with regard to the Occupy movement? From the leadership or followership angle?

~ Shane

Shane:

The leadership gains by increa sing frustration in it's followers and by weakening the system by draining it's resources, [Piven model]. Any insurgency operates on this premise, e.g., Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc.

The followership gets subconscious reinrorcement of the futility of the actions to date and the recommitment to the cause!

Not sure I got what you asked correctly understood by me though.

Adam

I think I follow. Your definition speaks to the leaders getting the followers on board by impressing upon them the impasse of today's govt' (i.e., no progress), gets them all gathered en masse, thereby dwindling the oppositions resources as they try to reign them in. And the confrontations serve to reinforce that mindset?

~ Shane

[Selene]

I compared it to Pork Chop Hill, Korean War, in a conversation last night.

What do you see the taking of as no value with regard to the Occupy movement? From the leadership or followership angle?

~ Shane

Shane:

The leadership gains by increa sing frustration in it's followers and by weakening the system by draining it's resources, [Piven model]. Any insurgency operates on this premise, e.g., Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc.

The followership gets subconscious reinrorcement of the futility of the actions to date and the recommitment to the cause!

Not sure I got what you asked correctly understood by me though.

Adam

I think I follow. Your definition speaks to the leaders getting the followers on board by impressing upon them the impasse of today's govt' (i.e., no progress), gets them all gathered en masse, thereby dwindling the oppositions resources as they try to reign them in. And the confrontations serve to reinforce that mindset?

~ Shane

Correct. We are running out of money at the NY City level, NY State level and at the National level. I hate to keep mentioning Korea, but our soldiers were truly rattled by seeing the Chinese wave assaults at night in the glare of flares and the sounds of bugles rushing their lines holding two "potato masher" hand grenades...

Chinese and North Korean Hand Grenades

No rifles - knowing they were going to die...

One part of their strategy is to overwhelm the process and it works.

Adam

[George H. Smith]

They had to do it.

They went ahead and lost Jon Stewart.

After 2 months, OWS already had a ghetto section in the park and the comedian could not resist.

By losing JS, they blew it. This round is now toast.

<div style="background-color:#000000;width:520px;"><div style="padding:4px;"><embed src="http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:video:thedailyshow.com:402475" width="512" height="288" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" base="." flashVars=""></embed><p style="text-align:left;background-color:#FFFFFF;padding:4px;margin-top:4px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;"><b><a href="http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-november-16-2011/occupy-wall-street-divided">The Daily Show with Jon Stewart</a></b><br/>Get More: <a href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/'>Daily Show Full Episodes</a>,<a href='http://www.indecisionforever.com/'>Political Humor & Satire Blog</a>,<a href='http://www.facebook.com/thedailyshow'>The Daily Show on Facebook</a></p></div></div>

Not to get too comfortable, though.

Van Jones is on the horizon. He said to CNN, “You haven’t seen anything yet.”

He better hurry. He's only got until 2013 at the swearing in ceremony. (I want that to be a quip, but a guy like him can do a lot of damage by then.)

Michael

An urban version of Lord of the Flies in the making.

Ghs

[George H. Smith]

In the near future, when my kids and grandkids ask me what the Occupy movement was about, I'll have this to say - "Haven't the slightest clue." I'm sensing the MSM is feeling the same thing. Sure, there's tidbits here and there about the 99% vs the 1%, but there's been no clear agenda, no clear structure. It seems to me that it's been a public venting session that's cost both sides millions of the dollars and no ground gained. At the losing end are those vendors that lost revenue because of these misguided crusaders. I feel bad for them.

However, had this been truly organized from the get-go with a concrete strategy, some good might have come from it... some. All I saw out there were mobs ranting for want of free stuff, and I got the feeling that the 99% wanted the 1% to foot their bills in many aspects. And hell broke loose when the free stuff stopped flowing from the pro-Occupy backers.

Ultimately, I think they wanted to be heard. Done. Those that are truly driven will winter the coming months, otherwise this movement will fade like the snow in coming spring.

~ Shane

Contrary to those who view OWS as the beginning of a major counterculture movement comparable to the antiwar movement of the 1960s, I don't think OWS will have much long-range influence. The problem runs deeper than lack of focus. OWS is saturated with the annoying whine of Gimme, gimme, gimme! -- a message that will grow increasingly tiresome over time.

Ghs

[Selene]

Contrary to those who view OWS as the beginning of a major counterculture movement comparable to the antiwar movement of the 1960s, I don't think OWS will have much long-range influence. The problem runs deeper than lack of focus. OWS is saturated with the annoying whine of Gimme, gimme, gimme! -- a message that will grow increasingly tiresome over time.

Ghs

George:

They definitely have no "long range" survivability.

My problem is their middle range, next two (2) years damage and potential for real blood in the street.

For example, I just found this:

It is basically a progressive wet dream brought into the 21st century...

Forum Post: Proposed list of OWS Demands

Posted 3 weeks ago on Oct. 23, 2011, 11:21 p.m. EST by bchang1987

This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Repeal the Taft-Hartley Act. Unionize ALL workers immediately.

Raise the minimum wage immediately to $18/hr. Create a maximum wage of $90/hr to eliminate inequality.

Institute a 6 hour workday, and 6 weeks of paid vacation.

Institute a moratorium on all foreclosures and layoffs immediately.

Repeal racist and xenophobic English-only laws.

Open the borders to all immigrants, legal or illegal. Offer immediate, unconditional amnesty, to all undocumented residents of the US.

Create a single-payer, universal health care system.

Pass stricter campaign finance reform laws. Ban all private donations. All campaigns will receive equal funding, provided by the taxpayers.

Institute a negative income tax, and tax the very rich at rates up to 90%.

Pass far stricter environmental protection and animal rights laws.

Allow workers to elect their supervisors. Animal Farm

Lower the retirement age to 55. Increase Social Security benefits.

Create a 5% annual wealth tax for the very rich.

Ban the private ownership of land. Pure communalism

Make homeschooling illegal. Religious fanatics use it to feed their children propaganda. John Dewey would be proud

Reduce the age of majority to 16.

Abolish the death penalty and life in prison. We call for the immediate release of all death row inmates from death row and transferred to regular prisons.

Release all political prisoners immediately.

Immediate withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Abolish the debt limit.

Ban private gun ownership. Pure Communism

Strengthen the separation of church and state.

Immediate debt forgiveness for all.

End the 'War on Drugs'. Well at least there is one demand we can all agree on!

http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-ows-demands/

[Selene]

Well, they got their blood shot!

[sbeaulieu]

Adam,

Pro wrestlers have that trick down pat. They use little razor blades to make small cuts on their foreheads which generates a lot of blood flow for the "wow!" factor. Not saying he did this, but just saying...

~ Shane

[Selene]

Adam,

Pro wrestlers have that trick down pat. They use little razor blades to make small cuts on their foreheads which generates a lot of blood flow for the "wow!" factor. Not saying he did this, but just saying...

~ Shane

Shane:

Yep. The scalp is extremely vascular and looks extremely traumatic, but once you clean the blood away, you are amazed at how minor the cut it.

I am not positive, but I am damn close to being sure that it was self inflicted.

Adam

[Selene]

Look kids...Mommy is getting arrested ...Hooray!

Look, kids, there’s mommy’s fighting the Man!

“Defendant.”

UPDATE! Lefty media defends child-abandoning Mom here!

I wrote about this proud piece of Occupod work a few weeks ago. Kathy Hessler is the Florida mom who left her husband and four kids back in Florida while she camped out with a Moroccan waiter on the sidewalks of New York. When asked how she felt about abandoning her kids for the sake of her kooky politics, she said:

“Military people leave their families all the time, so why should I feel bad?” a defiant Hessler said. “I’m fighting for a better world.”

Yeah, you’re exactly like the Marines who took Fallujah, lady.

Now the NYPost updates her story:

Here’s your mom, kids. Proud?

The hippie Florida mother of four who ditched her children and banker husband to sleep in Zuccotti Park’s squalor hit rock bottom yesterday when she was hauled off in handcuffs, her dreadlocks flying wildly in every direction, for blocking a street near the New York Stock Exchange.

Stacey Hessler, 38, was lifted off the pavement in the center of Broad Street by three cops who slapped plastic bracelets on her wrists and dragged her away kicking and screaming.

“What did I do? What did I do?” she kept shouting.

She was charged with resisting arrest and disorderly conduct after she blocked “vehicular and pedestrian traffic” and refused orders to move, cops said.

Where can I donate to the “Children Of Occupods’ Therapy” fund?

http://michaelgraham.com/archives/the-child-abandoning-ldquo-zuccotti-mommy-rdquo-has-added-to-her-resume/ There is a video here from Oct. 20th where she explains her politics.

[Selene]

I have one problem with the reporter who interviews the child about 2/3's through and that is the "push pull type of question." The proper question would have been, how did you feel walking through the lane to get to school.

Rather, the reporter imported the word "scared" which conditions the child's answer.

As to the 6'5" goon who followed the parent and child down the sidewalk, if it was myself and my child, I would have quickly used my right foot and collapsed his left knee. End of story. My statement would have been that all of a sudden this person pushed up on my child and I, threatened us, he had some time of weapon at his side and I was in fear of my life. Next.

http://michaelgraham.com/archives/ldquo-liz-rsquo-s-kids-rdquo-at-occupy-wall-street-attack-real-kids-trying-to-get-to-school/

[Selene]

OMG a Walter Cronkite moment...if we have lost Sesame Street, we have lost the nation...

[Selene]

Keith Olbermann's moment on Bloomberg where he compares Nanny Mayor to Sen. McCarthy, Governor Wallace, Mayor Daley and Prime Minister Grenville...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoG9PmdGaT8&feature=email

[Selene]

Unfortunately, OWS has figured out what I would have reccommended about six (6) weeks ago...a really effective shift in strategy.

They have announced that they are occupying foreclosed homes in communities. This unfortunately is a brilliant strategy because:

1) it spreads their influence deeply and widely into the citizenry;

2) it is a strategy that can pick up and move quickly from location to location;

3) it spreads the systems resourced to a radically stretched point;

4) it is an excellent recruitment tool; and

4) it capitalizes on the poetic people oriented "outlaw" image, eg. Joe Hill, Pretty Boy Floyd [Joan Baez/Woody Guthrie/depression images], Jesse James fighting the evil Railroads and Banks, etc.

These last artypal metaphors are deep in American culture and will resonate really well.

Read it and weep:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/trespassers-occupy-wall-st-protesters-begin-taking-over-foreclosed-homes/

Adam

these folks are getting to be a worthy adversary with this move...

[sbeaulieu]

Insanity. Talk about getting under the skin. I don't see that they could legally occupy forclosed homes. This is going to get messy quick.

~ Shane

[Selene]

Insanity. Talk about getting under the skin. I don't see that they could legally occupy forclosed homes. This is going to get messy quick.

~ Shane

Shane:

Have you ever read Alinsky's Rules For Radicals? If you have not, you should, because it is two hundred (200) pages of blueprinted material which is being employed today.

For example:

Rules for Power Tactics:

1. Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have.

2. Never go outside the experience of your people.

3. Whenever possible, go outside of the experience of the enemy.

4. Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules.

5. Ridicule is man's most potent weapon.

6. A good tactic is one that your people enjoy.

7. A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag This is the key mistake OWS made by remaining stationary.

8. Keep the pressure on with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose.

9. The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.

10. The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition.

11. If you push a negative hard and deep enough, it will break through into its counterside.

12. The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.

13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.

Rules to test whether power tactics are ethical:

1. One's concern with the ethics of means and ends varies inversely with one's personal interest in the issue.

2. The judgment of the ethics of means is dependent upon the political position of those sitting in judgment.

3. In war the end justifies almost any means.

4. Judgment must be made in the context of the times in which the action occurred and not from any other chronological vantage point.

5. Concern with ethics increases with the number of means available and vice versa.

6. The less important the end to be desired, the more one can afford to engage in ethical evaluations of means.

7. Generally, success or failure is a mighty determinant of ethics.

8. The morality of means depends upon whether the means is being employed at a time of imminent defeat or imminent victory.

9. Any effective means is automatically judged by the opposition to be unethical.

10. You do what you can with what you have and clothe it in moral garments.

11. Goals must be phrased in general terms like "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity," "Of the Common Welfare," "Pursuit of Happiness," or "Bread and Peace."

Adam

[9thdoctor]

Looks like we're seeing some Occupy Ayn Rand Clubs nowadays. Maybe they should have left them in the park.

http://dailycollegian.com/2011/12/05/need-photooccupiers-check-objectivist-society/

[Selene]

Looks like we're seeing some Occupy Ayn Rand Clubs nowadays. Maybe they should have left them in the park.

http://dailycollegia...tivist-society/

Thanks Dennis:

If I were in the leadership of the group that invitied the speaker, I would consider taking a much more confrontational stance with this attempt to silence our invited speaker.

Adam