nastiness abounds

[Xray]

To borrow a quote from Marilyn Manson, "society hasn't become more violent, its simply become more televised.

Very astute comment by Marilyn Manson.

And the heightened awareness our global village reaches via the internet may well prevent some dictators to cause bloodbaths among their own people, watched by the whole world.

Edited July 15, 2011 by Xray

[Selene]

To borrow a quote from Marilyn Manson, "society hasn't become more violent, its simply become more televised.

Very astute comment by Marilyn Manson.

And the heightened awareness our global village reaches via the internet may well prevent some dictators to cause bloodbaths among their own people, watched by the whole world.

The whole world was watching in Chicago in 1968 and it did not work out that well then.

I was there and this video shows somewhat how bad it was, but it was much worse on the side streets, much worse.

September 3, 2012 get ready Charlotte North Carolina!

[PDS]

Second, I'm 31, there's no time in my adult life where I haven't heard ppl say thongs are getting nastier or the like.

People have been saying that for the past 5000 years. Have you noticed that the Golden Age is always in our past?

Ba'al Chatzaf

I am given to understand that thongs are a relatively recent phenomena, especially among women.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Second, I'm 31, there's no time in my adult life where I haven't heard ppl say thongs are getting nastier or the like.

People have been saying that for the past 5000 years. Have you noticed that the Golden Age is always in our past?

This is way too ambiguous for me.

Is this about the Golden Age of Thongs?

What about boots or full-bodied swimsuits?

Michael

EDIT: PDS, our posts crossed.

[Selene]

I thong, therefore I am...

hmmm

King Thong?

Ding Thong, the bitch is ____________ [fill in]

Edited July 15, 2011 by Selene

[Fred Cole]

How many ppl died in Chicago in 1968?

[Brant Gaede]

To borrow a quote from Marilyn Manson, "society hasn't become more violent, its simply become more televised.

Very astute comment by Marilyn Manson.

And the heightened awareness our global village reaches via the internet may well prevent some dictators to cause bloodbaths among their own people, watched by the whole world.

The whole world was watching in Chicago in 1968 and it did not work out that well then.

I was there and this video shows somewhat how bad it was, but it was much worse on the side streets, much worse.

September 3, 2012 get ready Charlotte North Carolina!

My understanding is that was essentially a police riot plus provocation of the police. In Mexico City during the 1968 Olympics there was much undocumented killings of protestors by the authorities.

edit: That video is as you say, but otherwise not helpful.

--Brant

Edited July 15, 2011 by Brant Gaede

[Xray]

To borrow a quote from Marilyn Manson, "society hasn't become more violent, its simply become more televised.

Very astute comment by Marilyn Manson.

And the heightened awareness our global village reaches via the internet may well prevent some dictators to cause bloodbaths among their own people, watched by the whole world.

The whole world was watching in Chicago in 1968 and it did not work out that well then.

I was there and this video shows somewhat how bad it was, but it was much worse on the side streets, much worse.

September 3, 2012 get ready Charlotte North Carolina!

Gorbatchev's actions in 1989 are an illustrative example: he was intelligent enough to realize, during the last months of Communist Eastern Germany, that the times in 1989 were different than in 1968 when the Russian tanks put a tragic end to the Prague Spring.

In Germany in 1989, embedded reporters were everywhere reporting everything; the media coverage in those months preceding the final falling of the Berlin Wall had been gigantic.

Honecker (who was far less realistic than Gorbatchev), had already 40,000 armed soldiers prepared to attack his own people, when the message came from Gorbatchev that he would get no support from the USSR. For Gorbatchev had no interest in having the whole world, via the media, watch a carnage between two socialist brother countries.

Edited July 15, 2011 by Xray

[Brant Gaede]

It's "Gorbachev."

--Brant

[BaalChatzaf]

It's "Gorbachev."

--Brant

Actually it is Горбачев

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Xray]

It's "Gorbachev."

--Brant

Thanks for the info about the English transcription.

I think the "ch" in "Gorbachev" is pronounced [tʃ] (as in batch).

It's transcribed "Gorbatschow" in German, "Gorbatchev" in French.

Actually it is Горбачев

I was just looking for the name in Kyrillic when I read your post.

Russian has an extra letter (ч) fot the phonetic combination [tʃ]

Edited July 15, 2011 by Xray

[Brant Gaede]

It's "Gorbachev."

--Brant

Thanks for the info about the English transcription.

I think the "ch" in "Gorbachev" is pronounced [tʃ] (as in batch).

It's transcribed "Gorbatschow" in German, "Gorbatchev" in French.

Actually it is Горбачев

I was just looking for the name in Kyrillic when I read your post.

Russian has an extra letter (ч) fot the phonetic combination [tʃ]

Speaking only English I am only richer in language from someone who doesn't speak English. When I was eight I figured out I had missed the best time for learning another language. If I move to Chile I'll learn Spanish, which I studied in school. While I won't be moving to Japan I could learn Japanese if I were to. Forget a tonal language like Mandarin. An American smewhat Japanese fluent was speaking their language to some Japanese executives and came up with the wrong word in an innocent way. The Japanese couldn't stop laughing. One poor guy had tears streaming down his face. Unfortunately, the story didn't explain what the fox pussy was.

--Brant

[Selene]

How many ppl died in Chicago in 1968?

None. The media called it a police riot. I know for a fact that there were folks in the crowd who were professional paid agitators, but the police, stupidly overreacted virtually in front of the cameras. As with any riot, both demonstrators and police got out of hand. The police were better armed and inflicted more damage which is just the way it is.

In Mayor

Daley

's convention report, a list of

152 officers "wounded" on Wednesday's melee was presented.

Their wounds ranged from an officer's split fingernail to an officer's infraorbital fracture of the left eye.

[18]

Although the precise number of injured protesters is unknown, Dr. Quentin D. Young of the Medical Committee for Human Rights (MCHR) stated that approximately most of the 500 people treated in the streets, suffered from minor injuries and the effects of

tear gas

. During the entirety of convention week, 101 civilians were treated for undisclosed injuries, by area hospitals, 45 of those on Wednesday night.

[19]

Despite the appearance of war on the street, there were no fatalities.

The police were taunted by the protestors with chants of "Kill, kill, kill." They sprayed demonstrators and bystanders indiscriminately with Mace.

[20]

The police assault in front of the Hilton Hotel became the most famous image of the Chicago demonstrations of 1968. The entire event took place live under the T.V. lights for seventeen minutes with the crowd shouting,

"

The whole world is watching

."

[18]

At Kent State, in 1970, four (4) students were killed in a3 seconds when 67 rounds were shot "over their heads."

The

Kent State shootings

—also known as the

May 4 massacre

or, most frequently, the

Kent State massacre

[2]

[3]

[4]

—occurred at

Kent State University

in the city of

Kent, Ohio

, and involved the shooting of unarmed college students by members of the

Ohio National Guard

on Monday, May 4, 1970. The guardsmen fired 67 rounds over a period of 13 seconds, killing four students and wounding nine others, one of whom suffered permanent

paralysis

.

[5]

Edited July 15, 2011 by Selene

[anthony]

I skImmed this thread, so idk if it's already been addressed.

The first step in critically examining a phenomenon is to ask if the phenomenon exists.

Does it exist? Do you have statistical evidence of if?

I admit, I'm skeptical as well of the idea that today's world is 'nastier' than the past.

Today's world has less slavery, gladitorial games and wars-over-insults-to-royalty-and-gods than the past did.

Perhaps some people think that the world is nastier because its becoming a LOT easier to see the kind of petty, backstabby, gossippy, social-politicky nastiness that far too many people participate in (go on to the vast majority of social networking sites for evidence). But that doesn't mean people are nastier; it just means people's nastiness is easier to record and preserve in digital format.

To borrow a quote from Marilyn Manson, "society hasn't become more violent, its simply become more televised. Does anyone think that the Civil War was the least bit civil?" In that spirit, I'd like to say society hasn't become nastier, social interactions have simply become easier to observe due to digital technologies. Does anyone think that bullying, backstabbing, gossipping and social politicking were invented by the Facebook Generation?

Many people are indeed nasty. But are people in aggregate more nasty? I don't think so.

Fred,

Statistics? You mean like "lies, damned lies - and statistics."?

No, nary a single one. You know how they work, one could demonstrate how the crime rate in Saudi Arabia is lowest in the world, with stats. Civilised place, right? Until you look closer and see that they lop off parts of offenders' bodies there.

Statistics are only one referent point.

No, I'm basing this on my eagle eye for general human behavior, and generalized inductive observation.

SDK,

Sure, is it all just more apparent, now?

Interesting btw, this, - I noticed in my press days how when arriving at a scene with cameras, people's actions and expressions would change.

People play to the camera - I have no doubt anymore. In one case a relaxed strike erupted into a violent riot as soon as the media pulled up.

Events are staged to a frightening degree. It is often not so much that the media misrepresent (they do that, too), but that people self-consciously misrepresent themselves for that 30 seconds of fame. What's real, what's honest?

Possibly only when the camera isn't spotted - but even then there is a growing assumption that there must be one, somewhere, nowadays. Act unnaturally to be on the safe side.

So yes, I've tried to factor-in this 'phenomenon.'

Tony

[Fred Cole]

All I'm asking is if you have some kind of evidence, other than anecdotes, of your claimed phenomenon

[Selene]

All I'm asking is if you have some kind of evidence, other than anecdotes, of your claimed phenomenon

Fred:

Post 2006 William and Mary "study" on reversing the "perceived" moral decline in American Schools

Closest that I could find.

Adam

[Brant Gaede]

All I'm asking is if you have some kind of evidence, other than anecdotes, of your claimed phenomenon

Fred:

Post 2006 William and Mary "study" on reversing the "perceived" moral decline in American Schools

Closest that I could find.

Adam

"Character education," what a hoot! They should try teaching reading, righting* and rithmetic.

--Brant

edit: *riting, righting is for character ed. as in righting a wronging--I'm badly educated too too boot; I've been failed

Edited July 16, 2011 by Brant Gaede

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

On the idea of people getting nastier, I think there's a perception of it because of media exposure, and the mainstream media in the USA certainly has been doing its share of encouraging nastiness nowadays more than I can ever remember in the past, but in terms of factual nastiness, the world is actually gradually getting better.

I saw an interesting TED talk by Steven Pinker last night, "Steven Pinker on the myth of violence." It is from 2007, but it is just as valid for today since the historical brush-strokes are very broad.

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This almost seems counter-intuitive in light of the constant fear-mongering we get in the media, but facts are facts.

I was especially impressed by Pinker's observation that human violence has had a steep decline starting with the Enlightenment.

In short, reason rocks. It's gradually making the human race better whether certain individuals want to be or not.

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

The video is very worth watching in spite of its length.

--Brant

[sjw]

This almost seems counter-intuitive in light of the constant fear-mongering we get in the media, but facts are facts.

I was especially impressed by Pinker's observation that human violence has had a steep decline starting with the Enlightenment.

In short, reason rocks. It's gradually making the human race better whether certain individuals want to be or not.

Michael

I watched it while back. My basic thought was that it doesn't take into account the fact that we are more domesticated than civilized. We don't fight back, we just lay back and let ourselves be raped. And that causes less apparent violence. But the violence remains as a hidden gun that will be wielded just as soon as you start coloring outside the lines they have drawn for you.

Of course, I don't advocate fighting the rapist. Lay back and enjoy what you can, because if you fight back you'll be slaughtered. The problem I have with this video is that encourages the mindset of a society of perpetual slaves, whereas a more healthy mindset would be to observe the hidden gun, try to alert others, and peacefully change society such that there is no more hidden gun and no more rape.

Shayne

[Brant Gaede]

This almost seems counter-intuitive in light of the constant fear-mongering we get in the media, but facts are facts.

I was especially impressed by Pinker's observation that human violence has had a steep decline starting with the Enlightenment.

In short, reason rocks. It's gradually making the human race better whether certain individuals want to be or not.

Michael

I watched it while back. My basic thought was that it doesn't take into account the fact that we are more domesticated than civilized. We don't fight back, we just lay back and let ourselves be raped. And that causes less apparent violence. But the violence remains as a hidden gun that will be wielded just as soon as you start coloring outside the lines they have drawn for you.

Of course, I don't advocate fighting the rapist. Lay back and enjoy what you can, because if you fight back you'll be slaughtered. The problem I have with this video is that encourages the mindset of a society of perpetual slaves, whereas a more healthy mindset would be to observe the hidden gun, try to alert others, and peacefully change society such that there is no more hidden gun and no more rape.

Shayne

This reminds me of the old TV weatherman in NYC, Tex Antoine(sp?), who about 20 years ago followed the news story about a rape with the statement that if you're going to be raped you might as well lay back and enjoy it. That was the end of his career.

--Brant

edit: that's the spelling--it happened in 1976--he wasn't aware of the nature of the actual story which was the violent rape of a five year old girl--the newscaster wanted to get up out of his chair and strangle Tex right there on the air

Edited July 16, 2011 by Brant Gaede

[sjw]

This reminds me of the old TV weatherman in NYC, Tex Antoine(sp?), who about 20 years ago followed the news story about a rape with the statement that if you're going to be raped you might as well lay back and enjoy it. That was the end of his career.

--Brant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tex_Antoine

On November 24, 1976, his weather spot came up just after a report of a violent rape of a five year old girl. Tex, who had only been aware of the topic of the report, and not the fact that a child was involved, thereupon quipped: "With rape so predominant in the news lately, it is well to remember the words of Confucius: 'If rape is inevitable, lie back and enjoy it.'"

Shayne

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

The problem I have with this video is that encourages the mindset of a society of perpetual slaves, whereas a more healthy mindset would be to observe the hidden gun, try to alert others, and peacefully change society such that there is no more hidden gun and no more rape.

Shayne,

How does looking at fact instead of fantasy encourage the mindset of slavery?

All Pinker did was take a realistic inventory and compare it against where people have said it is otherwise.

In other words, how can you fix a problem if you refuse to look objectively at the situation where the problem is found?

I hold that ignoring facts does not lead you closer to any solution. I think you believe this, too.

So I don't understand your statement here.

Michael

[sjw]

The problem I have with this video is that encourages the mindset of a society of perpetual slaves, whereas a more healthy mindset would be to observe the hidden gun, try to alert others, and peacefully change society such that there is no more hidden gun and no more rape.

Shayne,

How does looking at fact instead of fantasy encourage the mindset of slavery?

All Pinker did was take a realistic inventory and compare it against where people have said it is otherwise.

In other words, how can you fix a problem if you refuse to look objectively at the situation where the problem is found?

I hold that ignoring facts does not lead you closer to any solution. I think you believe this, too.

So I don't understand your statement here.

Michael

Talk about a concrete-bound concept of "violence." On the contrary, it doesn't count as "less violence" just because the victim stops fighting back.

Shayne

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Talk about a concrete-bound concept of "violence." On the contrary, it doesn't count as "less violence" just because the victim stops fighting back.

Shayne,

I think we disagree on a fundamental.

I don't see human beings predominantly in terms of oppressors and victims.

Also, I am a practitioner of Evans' law of inadequate paranoia (“No matter how bad you think something is, when you look into it, it's always worse"), and I can apply that to your hidden gun, but I don't see how this justifies ignoring correct information just because it doesn't fit a conclusion.

Michael