Atlanta Objectivist Society conference (ATLOSCon 2011)

[algernonsidney]

We can house a limited number of out-of-towners, so if the cost of lodging would keep you from coming, please email Kelly Elmore for more information. If you are under the age of 25, we have a 20% discount available. Email Kelly Elmore for more details about how to get the young 'uns discount (before you register).

I would like to point out some things that you are doing right here. I love that you are encouraging people to put up out-of-towners. That makes it cheaper for all involved.

I also like the idea of just having an under-age-25 discount as opposed to these arbitrary student discounts

I might actually be able to tolerate attending the same conference as Diaha Hsieh. But if she is a "keynote," I don't want to be there.

Edited April 6, 2011 by Chris Baker

[Philip Coates]

> I might actually be able to tolerate attending the same conference as Diana Hsieh. But if she is a "keynote," I don't want to be there. [Chris B.]

While it would be different at a large conference, at one this small where it's difficult to avoid each other, it wouldn't have been comfortable for me to attend a small group involving Diana.

I had made a proposal which was warmly accepted and was scheduled originally to be a speaker, but at that time the organizers hadn't realized the past and very prominent history between myself and DH. And I hadn't realized she was to be prominently there.

For me an Oist or other conference is in large part social, at least as much as intellectual, and I don't like to be somewhere that's uncomfortable and where I don't feel like I'm "among friends".

But I'd love to attend another time - sounds like a lively group and some interesting topics.

My case is unusual, however ("Big Mouth Phil"). If -you- have not been involved in any personal hostilities with her, if she hasn't published a piece calling you a "false friend of Objectivism", for example, I would certainly think you might well enjoy and benefit from such a gathering.

You don't have to be friends with or agree with everyone. All you need is a few people to hang out with.

Edited April 6, 2011 by Philip Coates

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

While it would be different at a large conference, at one this small where it's difficult to avoid each other, it wouldn't have been comfortable for me to attend a small group involving Diana.

Phil,

My goodness.

You would not just focus on the topic at hand and forget all about the schism stuff? I mean, isn't that what's fundamentally wrong with the Objectivist world?

That's so irrational!

You are acting immaturely.

That denigrates the image of Objectivism.

I mean, that's the message you keep telling others when you hijack a topic.

It's different when it's your own hide, isn't it?

Michael

[caroljane]

> I might actually be able to tolerate attending the same conference as Diana Hsieh. But if she is a "keynote," I don't want to be there. [Chris B.]

While it would be different at a large conference, at one this small where it's difficult to avoid each other, it wouldn't have been comfortable for me to attend a small group involving Diana.

I had made a proposal which was warmly accepted and was scheduled originally to be a speaker, but at that time the organizers hadn't realized the past and very prominent history between myself and DH. And I hadn't realized she was to be prominently there.

For me an Oist or other conference is in large part social, at least as much as intellectual, and I don't like to be somewhere that's uncomfortable and where I don't feel like I'm "among friends".

But I'd love to attend another time - sounds like a lively group and some interesting topics.

My case is unusual, however ("Big Mouth Phil"). If -you- have not been involved in any personal hostilities with her, if she hasn't published a piece calling you a "false friend of Objectivism", for example, I would certainly think you might well enjoy and benefit from such a gathering.

You don't have to be friends with or agree with everyone. All you need is a few people to hang out with.

Phil, well said. Don't mind Michael.

Your friend,

Carol

[Jerry Biggers]

I find it hard to believe (o.k., impossible) that the organizers of ATLOSCON were not familiar with her background. She made her abrupt break with the Brandens, David Kelley, and TOC/TAS (and later, even her former mentor, Chris Sciabarra), quite melodramatic with her embarrassingly faux version of "To Whom It May Concern" (Rand's 1968 announcement of her break with the Brandens). Most of her rationalizations to justify her actions are still available on her site, labeled "False Objectivism." (I haven't checked to see if she also archived all of her numerous pre-2004 [and quite good] articles in supporting Kelley, the Brandens, and excoriating the policies of ARI and Leonard Peikoff. A comparison of those two opposing sets of documents should be read by those seeking to understand Ms. Hsieh's ideological acrobatics).

Choosing Ms. Hsieh as their keynote speaker was a none-too-subtle expression of where the organizers wish to pitch their tent. O.K., that's their choice. I choose not to reward or "sanction" Ms. Hsieh's actions.

Parenthetically, since the issue of Ms. Hsieh occasionally comes up here (usually by newcomers not familiar with the history of this issue), it might be a good idea to have a separate section collecting postings from users of this forum, where Ms. Hsieh was discussed. Ms. Hsieh quite clearly wishes to become a "star" of the ARIan wing. Those considering awarding her that "honor", need to get the whole story. Then, the curious can go and examine those posts (and of course, her own explanations on her own website) and we don't have to keep rehashing yet another sordid segment of O'ist movement history. Just a thought.

Edited April 6, 2011 by Jerry Biggers

[Selene]

Is she still hiding her arrest because of being caught in that motel room with the horse?

I am studying to apply to the George Soros school of Journalism. I think it is the Catherine the Great Scholarship that is accepting the applications.

Edited April 6, 2011 by Selene

[Aaron]

Phil-

Thanks for sharing that, and for your graciousness and attitude. It makes me hope to meet you more, maybe at a future ATLOSCon or other conference.

Chris-

Thanks for the positive comments on lodging and under-25 discount. I'm sorry the speaker line-up will keep you a way this year, but hope you will still consider coming in the future.

[Aaron]

Since OL is listed officially as one of Hsieh's "False Friends of Objectivism," I wonder...

MSK-

I'm thankful you have created and maintained an active Objectivist forum, complete with 'Events and Happenings' area. This seemed a perfect place to announce ATLOSCon. I tend to avoid spending time or focus on most Oist personal or philosophical conflicts or schisms, and as a result am generally unaware of them. When I posted I did not know of such a conflict concerning Diana Hsieh or other speakers vs yourself or Objectivist Living.

Looking for 'False Friends of Objectivism' now, I find the page http://www.dianahsieh.com/ff/. It does not appear to name you or OL, though regardless, I believe you concerning there being substantial conflicts. If you consider them sufficient reason to not list this year's ATLOSCon on OL, please let me know and I can remove the posting.

Thanks-

Aaron

[caroljane]

Is she still hiding her arrest because of being caught in that motel room with the horse?

I am studying to apply to the George Soros school of Journalism. I think it is the Catherine the Great Scholarship that is accepting the applications.

Hey, that's my alma mater! I can put in a good word for you. I won't mention the horse or any sheep or goats or yaks, or anything.

[Jonathan]

Choosing Ms. Hsieh as their keynote speaker was a none-too-subtle expression of where the organizers wish to pitch their tent. O.K., that's their choice. I choose not to reward or "sanction" Ms. Hsieh's actions.

I assumed that it had more to do with budget -- that the organizers can't afford to pay real speakers.

J

[caroljane]

My case is unusual, however ("Big Mouth Phil"). If -you- have not been involved in any personal hostilities with her, if she hasn't published a piece calling you a "false friend of Objectivism", for example, I would certainly think you might well enjoy and benefit from such a gathering.

You don't have to be friends with or agree with everyone. All you need is a few people to hang out with.

Phil, I am just curious. If you had a few friends to hang out with, say three or four more from OL besides James HN, would you consider going to this even though it would be hard to avoid DH? Just wondering -btw I DON'T WANT TO GO ,uh, hot weather is not good for my Condition and if you think you would feel friendless try being a socialist.

[9thdoctor]

Looking for 'False Friends of Objectivism' now, I find the page http://www.dianahsieh.com/ff/. It does not appear to name you or OL, though regardless, I believe you concerning there being substantial conflicts.

You shouldn’t have to dig deep to find her references to the “odious” MSK. And just so you know, she’s well hated among ARIans as well. If you associate with Betsy Speicher, she doesn’t want you on her forums. Basically, Diana “Comrade Sonia” Hsieh has built her own clan of toadies, and the main way of distinguishing her from Lindsay “Jabba” Perigo is the visible chest hair.

Seriously, she has engaged in some disgraceful behavior. You seem like a good guy, and I'm sure it's too late for you to do anything about it, so here's hoping this doesn't turn out like the Scorpion and the Frog.

http://forums.4aynrandfans.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=9428&view=findpost&p=84505

[Philip Coates]

> Phil, I am just curious. If you had a few friends to hang out with, say three or four more from OL besides James HN, would you consider going to this even though it would be hard to avoid DH?

Carol, rather than talk specifically about this conference (which it's now past the point of attending for a number of reasons this year), I'd say in general, yes. In any conference where there is so much spare time for socializing, going out to dinner, having a few laughs in between and after lectures, all I've found I needed (and was usually able to join) is a small little circle of simpatico people.

Usually the group I'm in is the one where there is the most laughing going on.

During the old 350-strong Jefferson School conferences held at UC San Diego when the world was young and pre-any schisms, several wonderful summers I spent some of the best weeks of my life with great people, some I'd known for a long time, some I'd just met.

I miss those days and that sense of benevolence post-the UO course. And no one was afraid and no one was looking over their shoulder or an enemy or worried about being unpopular or having the wrong taste in art or literature or music. It brought out the best in even the most reticent souls and was enormously 'de-repressing'.

I couldn't get the smile off my face for two sunlit summer weeks in San Diego every other year for nearly a decade.

Edited April 6, 2011 by Philip Coates

[James Heaps-Nelson]

> Phil, I am just curious. If you had a few friends to hang out with, say three or four more from OL besides James HN, would you consider going to this even though it would be hard to avoid DH?

Carol, rather than talk specifically about this conference (which it's now past the point of attending for a number of reasons this year), I'd say in general, yes. In any conference where there is so much spare time for socializing, going out to dinner, having a few laughs in between and after lectures, all I've found I needed (and was usually able to join) is a small little circle of simpatico people.

Usually the group I'm in is the one where there is the most laughing going on.

During the old 350-strong Jefferson School conferences held at UC San Diego when the world was young and pre-any schisms, several wonderful summers I spent some of the best weeks of my life with great people, some I'd known for a long time, some I'd just met.

I miss those days and that sense of benevolence post-the UO course. And no one was afraid and no one was looking over their shoulder or an enemy or worried about being unpopular or having the wrong taste in art or literature or music. It brought out the best in even the most reticent souls and was enormously 'de-repressing'.

I couldn't get the smile off my face for two sunlit summer weeks in San Diego every other year for nearly a decade.

Phil,

Thanks for sharing that. My whole college experience with Objectivists was like that. I also loved the 1990's and middle 2000's IOS Summer Seminars. You were a big part of that.

Jim

[Selene]

Phil:

Thanks for that well written vision.

Essentially this was the way it was throughout the '60's in New York, NBI, NYU, Columbia, Brooklyn College and some other venues up and down the Eastern seaboard.

Except for the occasional draft riot, the conferences were beautiful events.

Adam

[Jerry Biggers]

Looking for 'False Friends of Objectivism' now, I find the page http://www.dianahsieh.com/ff/. It does not appear to name you or OL, though regardless, I believe you concerning there being substantial conflicts.

You shouldn’t have to dig deep to find her references to the “odious” MSK. And just so you know, she’s well hated among ARIans as well. If you associate with Betsy Speicher, she doesn’t want you on her forums. Basically, Diana “Comrade Sonia” Hsieh has built her own clan of toadies, and the main way of distinguishing her from Lindsay “Jabba” Perigo is the visible chest hair.

Seriously, she has engaged in some disgraceful behavior. You seem like a good guy, and I'm sure it's too late for you to do anything about it, so here's hoping this doesn't turn out like the Scorpion and the Frog.

http://forums.4aynrandfans.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=9428&view=findpost&p=84505

Chest hair? Which one?

(No, really. I don't need to know how you got that information! )

Following your links to Speicher's site, and then her links to Comrade Sonia's, I was startled to find myself on Ms. Hsieh's side (on this one issue). So she's a little raunchy and Betsy's more of a prude! Who knew?

[Jerry Biggers]

Choosing Ms. Hsieh as their keynote speaker was a none-too-subtle expression of where the organizers wish to pitch their tent. O.K., that's their choice. I choose not to reward or "sanction" Ms. Hsieh's actions.

I assumed that it had more to do with budget -- that the organizers can't afford to pay real speakers.

J

You mean Hsieh has to give her stuff away??

Or is she paying them to get to speak?

[Selene]

Jerry:

I still think that she charges to give her "stuff" away.

Especially on that one day a year that she cooks and services the other Doc or is it the other D....er, well you know.

Adam

remember, it is not the size of the wand that gets the rabbit out of the hat, but the skill in the hands of the magician B)

Edited April 7, 2011 by Selene

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Looking for 'False Friends of Objectivism' now, I find the page http://www.dianahsieh.com/ff/. It does not appear to name you or OL, though regardless, I believe you concerning there being substantial conflicts. If you consider them sufficient reason to not list this year's ATLOSCon on OL, please let me know and I can remove the posting.

Thanks-

Aaron,

You are most welcome.

I took a look at your link to the False Friends and apparently Hsieh has revamped her site. I don't have all day to go through that stuff, so here is a small sampling of a couple of posts from her I got from a Google search.

I wasn't even aware of the first until right now. The second (two, actually) concerned an email she sent me making certain demands about OL. She was extremely rude (in the first of those March 31, 2010 emails below, she is quoting from her email to me), so I merely responded that if she wanted to address me in private, I would have to insist on good manners. That she was free to do as she pleased in public, but I don't allow lack of cordiality like she did to infiltrate my private communications. (The text is around here somewhere, but I don't have the time to look for it right now.) I have reasons (personal reasons that have nothing to do with the Objectivist world) for that posture, but she posted some more crap about what she presumed.

And no, I don't despise her. I think she's on a very confused path, and she can be quite nasty, but I despise Hitler, Stalin, people like that. This woman is just not in their league.

Also, the very first time she ever mentioned me (around 2005), she called me the most transparently dishonest person on SoloHQ or something to that effect. It was about an article I wrote. I had never spoken to her or about her before that. You can look it up if you want. Hell, if you like, there is a lot more stuff out there I can find, but I don't see any reason to dig through all that crap. It's just not productive as it's all the same crap. (Always a different story, but always the same old story. )

March 27, 2006

http://www.dianahsie...8551439646399#3

I didn't say that all the people on RoR are bad. (I don't believe that.) I said that "the worst people gravitated to Rebirth of Reason and Objectivist Living." Obviously, the worst of the worst make their home on OL. Still, many of those beyond-odious people are welcome on RoR -- and they post regularly. I'm particularly thinking of MSK, the owner of OL.

March 31, 2010

http://www.dianahsie...930272500638#37

I'm not asking for your goodwill: I know that you despise me, just as I despise you.

March 31, 2010

http://www.dianahsie...930272500638#39

Truly, there's just no dealing with people like him. Decency and honestly is clearly out of the question... as is respecting rights. Blech.

Don't worry about taking down your promotion. I stand by what I said in my first post on this thread and I am glad some people from here are making plans to go.

Incidentally, I just looked at SOLOP and ROR where you posted the same notice. As of this writing, there are no comments at all at either place. Yet, despite some understandable tension, your event is getting traction and support here. I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

Like I've said before, good luck with this venture. You're producing something and I respect that.

Go in peace and achieve great things.

Michael

[9thdoctor]

Chest hair? Which one?

(No, really. I don't need to know how you got that information! )

I could be wrong, I haven't verified my sources.

Following your links to Speicher's site, and then her links to Comrade Sonia's, I was startled to find myself on Ms. Hsieh's side (on this one issue). So she's a little raunchy and Betsy's more of a prude! Who knew?

I don’t mind raunchy humor either. If you dig you’ll find where Comrade Sonia demands people choose between associating with her or Betsy, hence the link. Even Jabba doesn't go that far, otherwise we wouldn't have Infidel.

[william.scherk]

I am hoping Aaron will give us a report on the events in Atlanta. If I had gone, I would have made sure I was in the audience (suitably disguised) at La Doktora's live webcast from Decatur!

Speaker: Diana Hsieh

Date: 05/29/2011 Time: 11:00 am EST to 12:00 pm EST

Every Sunday morning, I answer questions on practical ethics and the principles of living well in my live Rationally Selfish Webcast (

http://www.RationallySelfish.com

). At AtlosCon, I'll be doing the same, but with the extra fun of a live audience! As usual, I'll choose six of the most popular and interesting questions to answer from my queue of questions on Idea Informer (

http://bit.ly/e1Eee2

).

Seriously, her webcast is a guilty pleasure. I would have loved to have been in the room when she formulated and delivered the answer to:

Question 1: The Rights of the Severely Retarded: What rights do severely mentally disabled people have? If someone is mentally disabled to the extent that he or she will never be able to be rational and/or live independently, does that person have rights? Who should be financially responsible for the care of such people?

Not having proper camouflage, I ruled myself out of going to Atlanta. I will have to wait for our OL Great Lakers and Canuckistanis to organize a conflab in Toronto, I think. In the meantime, I console myself with this:

[Selene]

William:

Is she more than 50% complete with her gender reassignment surgery yet?

Adam

[caroljane]

William:

Is she more than 50% complete with her gender reassignment surgery yet?

Adam

I heard that it was stalled till more pledges come in.

[Neil Parille]

Hsieh expects $20 a month to answer questions such as when is appropriate to call margarine butter and is it ok to celebrate birthdays? How much does she want for posting the videos of cats with hyperthyroidism playing Parkour?

As someone said, you'd think that with a PhD in philosophy and a true believer in Objectivism Hsieh would write papers refuting critics of Objectivism, inviting them to respond, and then blowing their replies out of the water.

-Neil Parille

[caroljane]

Hsieh expects $20 a month to answer questions such as when is appropriate to call margarine butter and is it ok to celebrate birthdays? How much does she want for posting the videos of cats with hyperthyroidism playing Parkour?

As someone said, you'd think that with a PhD in philosophy and a true believer in Objectivism Hsieh would write papers refuting critics of Objectivism, inviting them to respond, and then blowing their replies out of the water.

-Neil Parille

Neil,

Those goiterous kitties made me LO really L.

Carol

Cat lover

Wait a minute, I respondedto what I assumed a felicitous quip, but maybe there really were such videos. If I'd seen them I don't know if I would have laughed or not, it isn't nice to mock the afflicted.

Edited May 29, 2011 by daunce lynam