I'm losing hope for the future

[John Tate]

Well,

I've been gone a while and resolved many of the issues I came here with. Yet, I seem to be in the worst position in Australia. After the floods many people now treat me with caution over things I said that never used to bother them. It isn't just that though - I feel completely ostracized from everyone for being an Objectivist. I either have to lie like hell, and become a worthless shell of a man like Alan Greenspan or just give it up which is impossible. I feel I've got less because I am met with so much apprehension. I also seem to never be worthy of many other Objectivists - just because I have life problems. It's like they've forgotten about a priori knowledge or something and I'm supposed to know it all automatically and never make mistakes. I also can't talk about flaws, as its as if its low self-esteem to them. For example, I have ataxia in my motor cortex, yet I play perfect guitar - I'll never be able to play piano but I love myself for that because even though it was ten times harder when I started I believed in myself and got there. Nobody should feel sorry for me, but pity is the usual response.

I get by really well without my lithium anymore, I don't believe it universally is but for me bipolar manic episodes don't exist. I slow myself down - I've done it to write this. I've become the king of my own body, my flat, my programming, my diet, and my mind. Yet socially I am silent and reserved - unwilling to speak. It's done a hell of a number on one of my oldest principles, to not treat people like idiots. I feel angry too often, and some people seem so ignorant that their ideas attack me physically that I almost just want to punch them up. I can't bring myself to take that action, but I work out now and I could so easily win. In this country, in the part I am living, a rural area that would win the debate. There is so much violence these days, more than I've ever seen. I'm angry as well - and its because I am beginning to fear for my life. I fear too much, I fear this mindless hydra will enslave me because I'll never have the future I want if I don't just lie to these fools. I can't do that either.

I am left completely without much in the way of a course of action. I've become afraid to socialize, because people get so angry at my ideas. People thought Ayn Rand could be excessive in her passion, but here I face a million passionate people about nonsense and cultural brainwashing with no principles. I've sucuumed to fear - because nobody likes who I am. Yet, I've met this girl who a month ago was crazy. She found something logical I wrote and just loved my ideas. She knew I was a genius, not a sociopathic parasite. She was into the Venus Project and lots of things, I wrote this, and saved her. Shes learning about logical fallacies now and I seem beautiful. She is beautiful - I've never met anyone quite like her. She is obsessed with her dream of being a Youth Worker. Her only principle was the truth.

Yet the world I live in seems tiny and devoid of people I can stand or can stand me. I am becoming extremely afraid of the political situation in Australia, I am becoming extremely afraid of the forgotten value here of not the poor but the battler working his hardest. I was once quite patriotic to the slogans and things in Australia. Even that common ground is dead, belief in free markets is dead. We have the most evil Prime Minister I've ever seen in my entire life - and its my blood she wants to suck. Senator Conroy has monopolized broadband - and I know censorship is coming down hard.

My brother seems to think I am in a cult - and I've had to just tell him to never speak to me again last night. He won't leave me alone over Objectivism as if its the source of my problems (ironically because of the stuff about repression, which could be used as a word for it with some context dropping because I am being repressed by too many others. I face unintelligible nonsense wherever I go. Conservatives that think if we privatize the "private" health system it will go bankrupt as if businessmen hate money. I've even been called "a filthy selfish aboriginal," and I can't take it anymore. How do I overcome this fear? I never had it as a boy. I ran around with my pants down, pushed girls over, and didn't care about anybodies moral reprisals for it. I love myself - but I've developed a malevolent human premise.

John Tate

Edited February 7, 2011 by John Tate

[Brant Gaede]

Well, John, make a list of ten of your problems easiest to the hardest. Solve the easiest first. Then the next hardest. Get help with this if you can.

Consider that we generate thoughts that can be characterized as positive and negative. Negative thoughts can lead to anger which repressed can cause depression. Learn to tell what kind of thoughts you are thinking. If it's negative ask if you are trying to achieve a positive good with it. If not, stop thinking it. Think of something else.

This isn't much and I'm not a psychotherapist and if you are bi-polar you should continue to get professional help.

You do seem to be dealing with both racism and tribalism too boot.

--Brant

Edited February 7, 2011 by Brant Gaede

[pippi]

I fear too much, I fear this mindless hydra will enslave me because I'll never have the future I want if I don't just lie to these fools. I can't do that either.

I am left completely without much in the way of a course of action. I've become afraid to socialize, because people get so angry at my ideas.

Why do you care so much what people think and let yourself be at their mercy?

(btw I have the same issues)

My favorite Rand quote.

"My life is the highest of values, too high to give up without a fight."

[shifty]

Hello there,

I can relate to some of the issues you mentioned since I'm a bit ostracized at the moment too.

In dealing with these issues I would advise too keep in mind what is your purpose in life (what is most important to you). Then work on conceptualizing a very well thought out plan and begin working on a few stepping stones towards that goal.

Having the certainty of knowing that your life is moving forward towards what you want most can go a long ways in calming the fear you have; And it isn't a problem that your plan isn't perfect, you can always improve it and it is certainly better than doing nothing.

There is the one requirement that I've found difficult to overcome; You need the courage to never give up. It's possible.

One good measure to know if you are doing it right is to be working on a stepping stone. If you are not doing that then it means you need start immediately. It isn't always easy but always worth it.

Hope I didn't repeat what you already know.

On a side note, I also have a brother who thought I was kinda crazy for my interest in Objectivism. He's in the Army now so he cant bother me about it anymore, or me bother him, but just remember that definitions are often a source of some of the problems. They could even be opposite of yours.

-Shifty

[John Tate]

They discharged me actually from professional help. I am thinking of doing CBT though because of exactly what you just said about thoughts.

The biggest problem is it seems to be a fact that I have no future in this country. My father, he seems ashamed of me... yet enlightened as well.

I feel doomed by facts, and sometimes I just want to flea to America.

[pippi]

They discharged me actually from professional help. I am thinking of doing CBT though because of exactly what you just said about thoughts.

The biggest problem is it seems to be a fact that I have no future in this country. My father, he seems ashamed of me... yet enlightened as well.

I feel doomed by facts, and sometimes I just want to flea to America.

You are young or maybe you are not-you still care what your father thinks-that takes a long time to shake.

btw america isnt too cool for fleas

seriously tho It isnt better

Edited February 7, 2011 by pippi

[sjw]

Just food for thought, not advocating swallowing it whole:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism

"Depressive realism is the proposition that people with depression

actually have a more accurate perception of reality, specifically that

they are less affected by positive illusions of illusory superiority,

the illusion of control and optimism bias. The concept refers to

people with borderline or moderate depression, suggesting that while

non-depressed people see things in an overly positive light and

severely depressed people see things in overly negative light, the

mildly discontented grey area in between in fact reflects the most

accurate perception of reality."

Shayne

[pippi]

There is the one requirement that I've found difficult to overcome; You need the courage to never give up. It's possible.

-Shifty

Shifty that is a wonderful sentiment I find it difficult as well but if you think of it as a battle that seems to help

Thank you

[shifty]

The biggest problem is it seems to be a fact that I have no future in this country. My father, he seems ashamed of me... yet enlightened as well.

I feel doomed by facts, and sometimes I just want to flea to America.

You have a future no matter what happens. Work from what is to make it better, and if you are serious about fleeing to America make sure to analyze your situation carefully and that the benefits will out weigh the cost.

[sjw]

John,

Not to be presumptuous as I don't know anything about you, but just as an idea to think about: you might want to consider that the contradictions in Objectivism are biting you in your subconscious.

Shayne

[pippi]

Just food for thought, not advocating swallowing it whole:

mildly discontented grey area in between in fact reflects the most

accurate perception of reality."

Shayne

Of course depressed people are the most realistic in some ways but they also defeat themselves in many ways as well. IE they don't try because they don't see the point, they don't cultivate interests because they are too caustic to let themselves be vulnerable.

now I am rambling.

[sjw]

Just food for thought, not advocating swallowing it whole:

mildly discontented grey area in between in fact reflects the most

accurate perception of reality."

Shayne

Of course depressed people are the most realistic in some ways but they also defeat themselves in many ways as well. IE they don't try because they don't see the point, they don't cultivate interests because they are too caustic to let themselves be vulnerable.

now I am rambling.

The point is, if things seem bad, maybe it's because they are.

Shayne

[shifty]

There is the one requirement that I've found difficult to overcome; You need the courage to never give up. It's possible.

-Shifty

Shifty that is a wonderful sentiment I find it difficult as well but if you think of it as a battle that seems to help

Thank you

Your welcome

[John Tate]

I feel what people think matters because I have to live in society. I feel alienated, from jobs and everything I need to see my horizons. I don't sit around arguing anymore, I just go silent. It shouldn't matter so much but it does when I'm this young. I've met someone, but that doesn't help me very much with jobs.

Courage is something I've been doing everything to work on. I've been working out so I feel strong and can face... even the worst of the irrational.

Edited February 7, 2011 by John Tate

[BaalChatzaf]

To Tate:

May I ask; what is your age?

Ba'al Chatzaf

[John Tate]

I'm 23 basically.

[BaalChatzaf]

I'm 23 basically.

You are much too young to lose hope.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[anthony]

Just food for thought, not advocating swallowing it whole:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism

"Depressive realism is the proposition that people with depression

actually have a more accurate perception of reality, specifically that

they are less affected by positive illusions of illusory superiority,

the illusion of control and optimism bias. The concept refers to

people with borderline or moderate depression, suggesting that while

non-depressed people see things in an overly positive light and

severely depressed people see things in overly negative light, the

mildly discontented grey area in between in fact reflects the most

accurate perception of reality."

Shayne

Geez,

Without accepting this on blind faith, it is very good to read something that confirms your own belief: I've been telling people this for years!

Now I've got a name for it - "depressive realism". Thanks, Shayne.

John, comparisons are only a bit better than analogies, I think, but some of what you say strikes a chord with me.

At age 23, I felt despondent about life, and veered for a while towards an approximation of escapism and sullen withdrawal. At about then I read Atlas Shrugged and rather than bolster me, I found its theme and message painful - as a state I was not worthy of, or capable of.

However, the long and short of it was that I couldn't escape the fact that I knew Objectivsm was true, and had many answers for me, and I perservered.

Sure, there were times I realised O'ism ran counter to the 'zeitgeist' around me - and I learned that argument was futile with the 'friends' I had.

But the real friends did come along eventually.

To keep it short, last points:

Wherever we live in the world, is not great, right now. As comparison, many South Africans see Aussie as the land of milk and honey - and can't wait to emigrate there, or next choice NZ, and Canada. It seems, wherever one is, you have to "keep your head when all about you are losing theirs'..."

As for fear, that's the biggest killer of the human spirit, and has to not be denied or evaded, but to be confronted and diverted into something better.

All this to say, others have gone through similar - stay conscious and rational and they will see you through.

Tony

Edited February 7, 2011 by whYNOT

[PDS]

You should join whatever the equivalent of the Marines is in Australia. That will take you mind off your current problems rather abruptly.

Seriously, do you think you are likely to get useful advice on this issue from strangers?

[shifty]

Courage is something I've been doing everything to work on. I've been working out so I feel strong and can face... even the worst of the irrational.

That's good, I'm glad. You also need courage just to do what's right even when no one is attacking you in any way. That's more of the way I meant it; Courage to face the fear inside you.

Edit: I just realized you might have meant it the way I did .

I'm 23 basically.

I'm 23 too .

It does take a long time to find your way, and I believe the key lies in the first post I made. Just because I say it doesn't mean much though. You will have too prove it to yourself first for you to truly believe it.

Edited February 7, 2011 by Shifty

[Brant Gaede]

John, a lot of people have taught you how to be a victim, many by victimizing you (going by what you've said). If you can refuse to be a victim, which would take a lot of practice, you'll discover that that light at the end of the tunnel--can you see it yet?--isn't from an oncoming train. This is something going on in your head and refusing to be a victim doesn't here mean striking out or striking back.

--Brant

get to work and good luck!

Edited February 7, 2011 by Brant Gaede

[sjw]

Another thought: if people depress you, perhaps you should avoid them. Study, learn a new skill, etc. rather than interacting with them.

When I was in my 20's I noticed that reading the news made me depressed and angry. So I explicitly made the choice to stop reading it for many years and spent the time learning valuable things rather than getting mad about stupid things.

Shayne

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

John,

I thought of giving you advice, but I see something developing that looks beneficial.

Shayne does not have good people skills, much in the same manner as you describe yourself. But, from observing him and interacting with him for a few years, I know he has a heart of gold. He's one of the good guys. I suspect the same of you.

I don't mean to embarrass him or you, but if you are lonely, he's reaching out in response to you reaching out.

I say let him in. You guys have a lot of attitudes in common. I think you would make great friends. But it's your choice, of course.

(And it's OK if both of you bash me for being touchy-feely. )

Michael

[Philip Coates]

> I've become afraid to socialize, because people get so angry at my ideas.

John, one thing that works for me is that, since I have a lot of other values and interests, like to do sports, tell jokes, read history, discuss classical literature, etc., I don't feel the need to talk about Objectivism until I know someone really well.

Then if someone is really turned off by the ideas, since they already know me as a person they can put it in perspective -->

Well, Phil has a lot of good traits, I guess I'm going to think our philosophical differences are the only way we relate.

[Philip Coates]

Another thought:

Do you live in a small town or small environment? You can meet lots of different kinds of people with a greater variety of responses to you in a big city.

Probably support groups for your psychological condition as well. People who are in the same boat can often be understanding, sympathetic, supportive.

Forget about whether or not they like Ayn Rand. I strongly suspect that's not as important at the stage you are in. Don't let it get in the way short term.