DallasCowboys

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  1. It's impossible for Wilde to misinterpret Rand or to have.

    --Brant

    I can, though; you can too (joy!)

    I understand they didn't live in the same time period, I mean I think he is misinterpreting concepts she would later have.

    Are you filtering Wilde through Rand? You may have too much Rand in your head. I did once. I never read this actual book by Wilde. Are you sure of his intention? From what I know the ending strikes me as hugely ironical plus you get what you pay for and pay for what you get. As for Wilde himself, wasn't wit and use of language the big thing? If not, what? He was not that great if so. For me Mark Twain was great--the greatest American writer. I couldn't say Ayn Rand for her European background and influences meant she never could transcend them enough to be purely and typically American. That's how she could write Atlas Shrugged and fill it up with Russians, albeit not exclusively. Her magnum opus is full of give upperism, except for the parasites. The heroes all gave up being heroes. Dagny, the biggest hero, gave up last. Galt was no hero. He gave up first. God is not a hero.

    --Brant

    and the novel needed a lot more sex, but I digress

    I don't believe I am, as there are several articles online discussing and contrasting their opinons as they share similar ideas in some respects and while Wilde is satrical in some pieces such as the importance of being earnest he has also written non satrical pieces.

  2. It's impossible for Wilde to misinterpret Rand or to have.

    --Brant

    I can, though; you can too (joy!)

    I understand they didn't live in the same time period, I mean I think he is misinterpreting concepts she would later have.

  3. Guys/Gals,

    So in my boredom of being off from college I have been reading as much as I can and today my topic of conversation centers on The Picture of Dorian Gray. Just a heads up if you haven't read it my theory does contain spoilers. My theory centers on Lord Henry and in my opinion he perfectly represents a misinterpretation of Ayn Rand and her philosophy. Here a just some lines he says in the book-

    "When we are happy, we are always good, but when we are good, we are not always happy."

    "To be good is to be in harmony with one's self. Discord is to be forced in harmony with others. One's own life- that is the important thing. As for the lives of one's neighbours, if one wishes to be a prig of a Puritan, one can flaunt one's moral views about them, but they're not one's concern. Besides, individualism has really the higher aim."

    "My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his own absolute."

    Now at first glance when reading the book these lines seemed to fit right in with Ayn Rand and some parts of them do but upon further examination of the character I have come to the realization that he represents something entirely different. Lord Henry is not the man Ayn Rand would have admired because while Lord Henry lives for himself he does so by bringing down others. To Lord Henry even if somebody kills someone as long as they are doing it for their own pleasure then it is ok but in my opinion Lord Henry's view is flawed because he claims to be a man of reason and physical force is pretty far from reason. I also believe that while it can be argued Lord Henry does in fact only live for himself that his character is unrealistic because the way in which he lives for himself is something no man of reason would ever desire. He doesn't care for having friends and he doesn't care for marriage or any type of companionship and he to my recollection makes no reference to wanting sex, and I believe no selfish human being wouldn’t want any of those things; so while Lord Henry might technically be selfish Oscar Wilde makes selfishness imply little care for friends or a spouse which is a false interpretation. Oscar Wilde is painting (no pun intended) a false narrative of selfishness.

    Edit: I just wanted to add that I believe Oscar Wilde is confused on what pleasure is. I believe he assumes that earthly pleasure has to be something bad such as doing drugs or murder hence why Dorians picture keeps getting worse.

    Any opinions are always welcome :smile:,

    David C.

  4. Guys/Gals,

    My question today is pretty simple, why is Haiti so poor? In my class today we read an article by Dr. Leslie Alexander and she basically blames the U.S. and France for the reason Haiti is so poor but this seems far too simplistic. Any answer is always helpful.

    Thanks,

    David C. :smile:

    Is this the article?

    A Land of Promise:’ Emigration and Pennsylvania’s Black Elite in the Era of the Haitian Revolution.” Dr. Alexander's current research project, tentatively titled "The Cradle of Hope: African American Internationalism in the Nineteenth Century,” is an exploration of early African American foreign policy in Haiti.

    I can't find the article you mentioned online so I don't know, my professor just gave us a part of one of her articles it didn't have the title of the piece on it. Sorry

  5. Guys/Gals,

    My question today is pretty simple, why is Haiti so poor? In my class today we read an article by Dr. Leslie Alexander and she basically blames the U.S. and France for the reason Haiti is so poor but this seems far too simplistic. Any answer is always helpful.

    Thanks,

    David C. :)

  6. If reality can only be perceived through human senses how can Ayn Rand fully prove reality as objective? How could she deny a God, maybe she just isn't sensing him?

    Hmm...like:

    "Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings" by Gregory Y. Titelman (Random House, New York, 1996). Mr. Titelman agrees that this saying has its roots in the Bible, specifically Jer. 5:21 (King James version): "Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not."

    "There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know. The proverb has been traced back in English to 1546 (John Heywood), and resembles the Biblical verse quoted (above). In 1738, it was used by Jonathan Swift in his 'Polite Conversation,' and is first attested in the United States in the 1713 'Works of Thomas Chalkley'..." http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/bulletin_board/5/messages/836.html

    A...

    Thanks, I think I am starting to understand it. :)

  7. Guys/Gals,

    I couldn't think of the proper category to put this in so I just put it in the Objectivist Living Room. My question is in the topic but I will repeat it anyway- What is an Idealist Justification of Punishment? If the nature of reality to them is simply one cooked up the minds of individuals how can you possibly justify punishing someone?

    Thanks,

    David C.

    Not for revenge but only to discourage future crimes. Revenge is negative and destructive. As for the death penalty, even if the crime could be proved beyond all doubt--it can't across all cases--it badly damages the social weal not to mention many people involved in carrying out the sentence.

    --Brant

    Thanks, I found this same response in all of Kant and Berkleys work but it still confuses me. They never address the concept of reality with regard to punishment. If reality is made up in the minds of indivduals how can you punish someone?

  8. Hello Guys/Gals,

    I feel like I have asked a similar question a thousand times but I still find myself confused. Ok, an Apple is a room with all the lights on and everybody identifies it as red but if someone where to turn off all the lights in the room suddenly everybody believes the apple is black. How can I prove that the apple is indeed still Red. I understand that nobody can prove somebody elses senses without confirming their own and I understand that reality is objective because even if someone wishes for something to happen it can and most often doesn't but how does someone prove the apple is still red with the lights off?

    Thank you,

    David C.

    Be careful what questions you ask. You might ruin philosophy.

    John Locke made a distinction between primary and secondary qualities. He would call shape a primary quality and color a secondary quality. He probably did not intend any harm by making this distinction.

    George Berkeley took this distinction and used it to prove that matter does not exist. (All qualities are secondary.) Nobody could refute his proof. Someone tried to refute his proof by kicking a rock.

    David Hume took it a step more and proved that mind does not exist.

    Kant read Hume and figured something is wrong with philosophy and wrote 'Critique of Pure Reason', probably the most evil book ever written.

    All this because John Locke made a distinction between primary and secondary qualities.

    Ayn Rand rejected the distinction.

    This didn't really answer my question. If reality can only be perceived through human senses how can Ayn Rand fully prove reality as objective? How could she deny a God, maybe she just isn't sensing him?

  9. "...but how does someone prove the apple is still red with the lights off?"

    Ha, fun question. You can't. With no light there is nothing to see. To see the red of the apple you need light, and that light, depending on its frequency, will affect the quality of the red. You also need a perceiver, not a color-blind guy, and I would guess that there are mechanical tools to measure the visual frequency.

    If you can't how can you prove that reality is objective?

    Visually speaking, without light we cannot prove reality exists. In complete darkness you would need other senses to prove it, like by feeling the apple.

    Then how can Ayn Rand say reality is objective, is her only proof through humans senses?

  10. "...but how does someone prove the apple is still red with the lights off?"

    Ha, fun question. You can't. With no light there is nothing to see. To see the red of the apple you need light, and that light, depending on its frequency, will affect the quality of the red. You also need a perceiver, not a color-blind guy, and I would guess that there are mechanical tools to measure the visual frequency.

    If you can't how can you prove that reality is objective?

  11. Hello Guys/Gals,

    I feel like I have asked a similar question a thousand times but I still find myself confused. Ok, an Apple is a room with all the lights on and everybody identifies it as red but if someone where to turn off all the lights in the room suddenly everybody believes the apple is black. How can I prove that the apple is indeed still Red. I understand that nobody can prove somebody elses senses without confirming their own and I understand that reality is objective because even if someone wishes for something to happen it can and most often doesn't but how does someone prove the apple is still red with the lights off?

    Thank you,

    David C.

  12. Guys/Gals,

    I couldn't think of the proper category to put this in so I just put it in the Objectivist Living Room. My question is in the topic but I will repeat it anyway- What is an Idealist Justification of Punishment? If the nature of reality to them is simply one cooked up the minds of individuals how can you possibly justify punishing someone?

    Thanks,

    David C.

  13. David writes:

    One of my goals in life is to fall in love with someone who I admire, for someone who I don't feel above.

    If you first become the kind of man that a woman admires and doesn't feel above...

    ...your goal will become reality because it is in harmony with it. :smile:

    Greg

    Thanks Greg, I like this way of thinking about it.

  14. Thanks for the question. To me I always related the quote to love and I am the hopeless romantic type. One of my goals in life is to fall in love with someone who I admire, for someone who I don't feel above. I mean that in as non arrogant a way as possible. Just to clarify I don't mean I want to be below the person I fall in love with, I mean I just want someone who I admire. For example, I would want to fall in love with someone who is really well read, or can sing like Aretha Franklin (don't know why I chose her). For all 20 years of my short life any women I have ever gotten somewhat close with, hasn't been someone I would strive to be or admire and I don't mean that in a rude way. Hopefully that makes sense, which I don't think it does. :smile:

    David C.

    It makes sense.

    You posted:

    For all 20 years of my short life any women I have ever gotten somewhat close with, hasn't been someone I would strive to be or admire and I don't mean that in a rude way.

    That statement intrigued me.

    I assume you were referring to young woman somewhere near your age.

    If that is what you meant, what about them was not admirable?

    Also, are there any women over thirty that you have met that were admirable?

    A...

    With regard to the first part of your question, no, any women I have met around my age hasn't been admirable. Yes, I have met some beautiful women in the physical sense , so I guess they are admirable in that way but they were never admirable in intellectual ways. I have even stopped trying to pursue pretty women because I just couldn't find something about them I admired or wanted beyond physical appearance. Not admirable, in the sense that they never had some trait I appreciated the skill of, they never even had unrivaled passion for something. With regard to your second question and women over 30, none that I can think of (this is with regard to physically met in person). On a side note, I also like the quote because I would love to fall for someone in person who instead of me having to drop my level of conversation we were met on equal plains or they challenged my intellect. Again, hope this makes sense.

    David C. :)

  15. sigh...

    Last week Ben Carson sunk his presidential possibilities over this very issue:

    I actually saw that when it happened.

    I love Ben Carson, I really do and I was hoping to support him, but come on...

    Even Glenn Beck said this was one of the dumbest things any presidential hopeful has ever said.

    I don't think Carson can recover from this in today's media climate. And if he digs in on it, which he probably will, frankly, I'm not sure I want him to.

    Michael

    I can't watch this clip without cringing. I really understand what he was trying to say but it came off so badly and using prison as his example was in such poor taste. I think he just apologized for the comment but I agree it is way too late; if he ran for president, the media would never let this go. Personally, I don't understand why republican candidates dive into social issues like this, they should stay on economic issues.

  16. No apologies necessary, David. I meant, in all jest, that you were testing my knowledge. Also, that I am nowhere near an authority on the teachings of the Catholic church.

    Ok good, I was nervous there because I really enjoy your answers; and trust me you know where more about Catholic teachings then I do.

    David C. :)

  17. David...

    Out of curiosity, why did you chose that specific Rand quote?

    “Have you ever felt the longing for someone you could admire? For something, not to look down at, but up to?”

    ― Ayn Rand

    Thanks.

    A...

    Thanks for the question. To me I always related the quote to love and I am the hopeless romantic type. One of my goals in life is to fall in love with someone who I admire, for someone who I don't feel above. I mean that in as non arrogant a way as possible. Just to clarify I don't mean I want to be below the person I fall in love with, I mean I just want someone who I admire. For example, I would want to fall in love with someone who is really well read, or can sing like Aretha Franklin (don't know why I chose her). For all 20 years of my short life any women I have ever gotten somewhat close with, hasn't been someone I would strive to be or admire and I don't mean that in a rude way. Hopefully that makes sense, which I don't think it does. :)

    David C.

  18. David, you're really testing me here! Let me be clear that I am not Catholic. What I know of Catholicism I have learned alongside my 10-year-old son because he attends a Catholic school and religion is part of the curriculum. In other words, I am no expert by any means. My knowledge is what you'd expect of a non-Catholic 4th grader who studies to the weekly tests. LOL! Myself, I was raised in tiny Baptist churches where one simply did not talk about homosexuality at all.

    Catholicism defines mortal sins as those that are of a serious nature, and are committed knowingly and with the sinner's full consent. The serious nature part is covered by the Ten Commandments, and the Church has categorized homosexuality as an offense against the 6th, "Thou shalt not commit adultery." There is specific scripture they use to support that conclusion. If you are interested, I will try to find it, but a google search would probably turn it up for you.

    I'm not sure this line of inquiry, though, is ever going to get you the answer you seek as it is all dependent on scripture and, in the case of the Catholic Church, on some higher authority's interpretation of that scripture. You could conceivably continue to question, "Why?" to every answer a priest could make until he finally falls back to... "because faith, my child."

    Edited to add: Adam makes an important point that draws attention to something I clearly mis-stated. I said that according to Catholicism, being gay is a mortal sin which is not accurate. Rather, acting on being gay is a mortal sin. Which is maybe the crux of the thing?

    I am not sure in which way you mean "testing", if you mean as in, testing your knowledge then I have no comment. If you mean "testing" as in getting on your nerves then I apologize, that wasn't my intention. If I wasn't clear I apologize, I never said that you were Catholic, I asked why "they" as in Catholics view homosexuality as a higher sin as compared to other sins. With regard to getting a direct answer, you answered my question which ultimately is Catholics don't need a justification, that it can all come back to faith being the answer.

    Thank you as always :),

    David C.

  19. Hey all,

    I have to write a paper on why the Articles of Confederation failed and I am little stuck on why it actually did. What did the Articles of Confederation have that led to its failure because everything I can find says it has everything I generally agree with. Such as voluntary taxation and limited government. If it had these, then why did fail? Why did this taxation system not work?

    Thanks,

    David C.

    Nobody wants to pay their "fair" share.

    So would you be in favor of forced taxation, which is basically what we have now, just a progressive version of it.

    Thanks for the answer. :)

  20. In Catholicism, homosexuality is a mortal sin. They believe you won't burn in hell for lying or disrespecting your parents, but you will for being gay. And yes, if one accepts that homosexuality is not a choice, then one must also accept that God intended for it to be so.

    Thank you that makes more sense but it leads me to another question. Why do they view homosexuality as such a bigger sin as compared to others?

  21. Thank you all for the answers. From what I gather it generally comes back to religion. Is it because if homosexuality is not a choice then religion can't deem it sinful? And if that is the case what makes homosexuality so sinful as compared to other sins because in my opinion religious groups focus a lot more on homosexuality as compared to other sins such as lying or disrespecting your parents, but I could be wrong.

  22. Hey all,

    I have to write a paper on why the Articles of Confederation failed and I am little stuck on why it actually did. What did the Articles of Confederation have that led to its failure because everything I can find says it has everything I generally agree with. Such as voluntary taxation and limited government. If it had these, then why did fail? Why did this taxation system not work?

    Thanks,

    David C.