kane4

A tolerance for alcohol, and the ability to go berserk, when necessary, to protect the tribe, served our Nordic ancestors well. It's called evolution. Some people think that in our modern politically correct world, castration, chemical or psychological, is the answer. The real answer is an open frontier.

I agree, and many men that I know and work with lament the very same thing.

Leiberman says that WTC 7 did not fall:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/911-joe-lieberman-wtc-7-did-not-occur-i-do-not-support-a-new-investigation.html

I wonder how many Americans actually know about building 7? Or the fact that its fall was reported about a half hour before it actually happened.

Shayne

It was reported that day that Building 7 was empty, and they were warning people to get away from the building because they were going to demolish it. At least that's what I have in the notes I took in my Franklin Planner while listening to the news that day. I wish I had tape to prove it, but I don't.

To begin with, you are not going to be able to convert a minister. Not only is it his beliefs on the table, but also his livelihood. His job is to convert YOU, and then keep you on the path, i.e. in his flock, under church control. His arguments are weak, especially considering his position as an expert on such matters, but I can tell you from experience that no matter how good your arguments are, he will hold fast, and ultimately frustrate you. If you can successfully disprove him, he will most likely become dismissive, and authoritatively say something to the effect of "you need to get right with God".

The best thing you can do is be resolute and completely confident in yourself as a free thinking individual, if you can do that, you'll have nothing to prove to others.

That being said, the best method I have found in these situations is not to attempt to provide answers, but to continuously ask logical questions about the statements he makes. He is the "expert" after all.

Thanks to everyone for the warm welcome.

Chris

Hi Chris. Good to hear you're a hiker/backpacker/outdoorsman.

I've never heard of bushcrafting before, but it sounds pretty fun (the challenging, achievement-based type of fun). (thanks for the link Adam) Ever bushcrafted anywhere near the Rockies?

I'm more of a standard hiker myself. You and Adam can distinguish yourselves from me in that I can always pack enough food for the whole trip! The closest I can come to bushcrafting would be some escapades off of the trails and some extemporaneous rock climbing.

Objectivism was a little tricky for me to apply to my life (initially, at least). It's a major break from common moralities consisting of commandments and rules. I got much better at life once I recognized that Objectivism provides a general procedure for achieving happiness, rather than a set of rules.

Mike

Unfortunately, I have never been farther west than Ohio, but I am planning a trip to Arizona this year(I have family in Apache Junction)and I do want to do at least an overnighter in the desert. I have been canoe camping in Algonquin Provincial Park, just north of Toronto, and also paddled in the Tom's River area of New Jersey, but most of my outdoors experience has been right here in the Southern Tier of New York.

I know that for me, it's one thing to understand the concepts of a philosophy on an intellectual level, but it's much more tricky to replace the social dogmas I have agreed to be subject to most of my life. Even considering I have always been individualistic and contrary toward my conditioning. This has created what could be called a "Steppenwolf syndrome", where I both reject the standard social rules and obey them at the same time. I'm now ready to push myself past this mode.

I apologize if I am rambling, or missing any obvious logical steps, it's been a long day.

Hi. That's a hell of a last name you've got.

--Brant

Thanks, seen it before?

No, can't say I have. Anything to do with French?

--Brant

All I can say for sure is that the spelling has been unmercifully bastardized. It could have been French, English, or something else, now it's American

Chris:

I knew that picture had a survival look to it. I did a lot of tarp camping when I was in Virginia for a few years. I am still learning though.

For those who are not familiar with the phrase, bushcrafter wiki.

This is a nice site "because knowledge weighs nothing"

Sixty-seven percent! I would move fast.

Where are you looking to relocate?

OL is a good place to test your ideas. There are a lot of non-"O"bjectivists, or open objectivists here. Additionally, there are a lot of folks who argue against the ideas. Finally, there are a lot of thinkers here.

Adam

I'm not sure where I want to move to yet, I'm just beginning to work on a plan. At this point, I'd just be happy to get out of this city.

Thanks for posting the links, I tend to forget that the term isn't that popular here in the states yet. "Woodcraft" or "Wood-lore" might be more familiar. When I was growing up, someone was just "good in the woods", but bushcraft sums it up nicely, and is becoming the accepted term, well at least among those of us who practice it. I have always done it, but only learned that it had a name a few years ago.

Thanks for the friendly welcome!

Welcome to OL Chris:

My first exposure to Ayn was the movie of the Fountainhead also. What type of work do you support the state with?

Looks like you get a lot of that global warming up in Elmira.

Do you get a good view of the prison?

Adam

I support the state, and myself, by working as a hub operator in a glass factory in nearby Corning.

I'm not sure we get any more global warming here in Elmira than anywhere else, but I can say that lately there has been very little empirical evidence of any kind of warming.

I can't see the prison from my house, but I do drive past in once in a while. I don't know how familiar you are with it, but it now has a fence around it, just like other prisons.

Chris:

Thanks.

I love the country up there. I was lucky enough, being a NY City boy, to spend about a third of each year in a small town, in Wayne County, right on the Delaware River, on the Pennsylvania side, East of you.

Learned my hunting, trapping and fishing from wise farmers and country people. I finished Atlas Shrugged sitting on the Delaware with the fog and mist lifting off the water.

Thankfully, despite some of my errors, I am not familiar with the prison in Elmira, but I do know that it dominates the economy of the area along with Owens Corning.

What brought you to OL?

Adam

It's true, the prison does dominate the economy here in Elmira, and Corning is the quintessential company town. While the prison does provide a large proportion of jobs in the area, many of the families of prisoners move to the area, and do not, or are unable to find work. About sixty percent of the housing in the city are apartments, and Elmira has put a moratorium on dividing any more single family dwellings into apartment buildings. Sixty-seven percent of my property taxes go to Medicaid. I plan to move.

I came to OL to interact with and learn from like minded people. This is an experiment of sorts, I am single, and debt free, so I have the freedom to do what I want, and while I think Objectivism is a great philosophy, it remains to be seen if it can be lived, by me. I realize I have a lot of conditioning to overcome, and I think interaction with other Objectivists will help keep the momentum going.

I also noticed you are a minimalist backpacker, I'm a bushcrafter myself.

Hi. That's a hell of a last name you've got.

--Brant

Thanks, seen it before?

Welcome to OL Chris:

My first exposure to Ayn was the movie of the Fountainhead also. What type of work do you support the state with?

Looks like you get a lot of that global warming up in Elmira.

Do you get a good view of the prison?

Adam

I support the state, and myself, by working as a hub operator in a glass factory in nearby Corning.

I'm not sure we get any more global warming here in Elmira than anywhere else, but I can say that lately there has been very little empirical evidence of any kind of warming.

I can't see the prison from my house, but I do drive past in once in a while. I don't know how familiar you are with it, but it now has a fence around it, just like other prisons.

Hello all, my name is Chris. I first became interested in Ayn Rand and Objectivism when saw the movie "The Fountainhead" about ten years ago, and shortly after, read the book.