Jewish power dominates at 'Vanity Fair'

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Jewish power dominates at 'Vanity Fair'

By NATHAN BURSTEIN

October 11, 2007

Jewish World

From the article:

It's a list of "the world's most powerful people," 100 of the bankers and media moguls, publishers and image makers who shape the lives of billions. It's an exclusive, insular club, one whose influence stretches around the globe but is concentrated strategically in the highest corridors of power.

More than half its members, at least by one count, are Jewish.

I normally do not like ethnic stories, but when praise is due for produced achievement, I think one should praise. A heartfelt congratulations to an amazing culture, the Jews. May all men learn from them the reasons they are so well represented among the top.

Michael

[BaalChatzaf]

Jewish power dominates at 'Vanity Fair'

By NATHAN BURSTEIN

October 11, 2007

Jewish World

From the article:

It's a list of "the world's most powerful people," 100 of the bankers and media moguls, publishers and image makers who shape the lives of billions. It's an exclusive, insular club, one whose influence stretches around the globe but is concentrated strategically in the highest corridors of power.

More than half its members, at least by one count, are Jewish.

I normally do not like ethnic stories, but when praise is due for produced achievement, I think one should praise. A heartfelt congratulations to an amazing culture, the Jews. May all men learn from them the reasons they are so well represented among the top.

Michael

It is not just "Jewish Power". Think of all those talented Gentiles the magazine hired to write for them. Choosing the talent is half the effort, if not more. The mark of a first rate businessman is to be able to hire his own replacement and be glad of it. Talent is talent. (Law of Identity).

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Well, to be fair, there are all those Gentiles on the list, too. They probably employ a good many Jews.

The core value is production, not some kind of innate talent. I applaud the Jews on this list for having a culture the encourages them to make great rational productive choices.

Michael

[tjohnson]

but when praise is due for produced achievement, I think one should praise.

That all depends on one's idea of 'produced achievement' doesn't it?

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

GS,

This is an Objectivist site. When we use phrases like productive achievement, there is a specific meaning. It would be great if you learned these things someday.

Michael

[Wolf DeVoon]

Hm. Why it always falls to me, I do not know. Anyway, I have to say something on behalf of the stupid and slow-witted, among which I am a prominent member. The political principle of democracy and equal justice is to check the natural aristocracy of brainy rich people. In America, this means Jews and white-shoe bankers who dominate banking, show business, government, etc.

Us dumb folks are not terribly effective at speaking up for ourselves. We have silly prejudices and worse than silly expectations. For instance, most Americans believed Saddam had nuclear weapons and was somehow responsible for 9/11. People at the top knew better and lied to us. Stuck in Iraq, average Americans are incapable of explaining what should be done next, except they like the idea of winning. Israel is the Holy Land, and all God's children (except Muslims and Chinese) are doing the right thing. We don't care to think too hard about Russia at the moment.

Having gulched more than most, I hereby certify that slow-witted people are attracted to Objectivism with equal or greater passion than very smart people. Rand's theories are accessible and logical. Her fiction demonstrates how ideas move the world or destroy our ability to function. Hank Rearden was blocked, emotionally twisted, guilt-ridden and deceitful. Took years to free him, conveniently squeezed into a short soap opera that will never be dated or outmoded. Was Hank Rearden a genius? No. His wife, brother, and mother bullied and outsmarted him approximately forever. Rearden reminds me of Thomas Edison, engaged in ten years of failed experiments and guesswork, boss of a crew that did most of the lab work for him.

Three cheers for dolts, creators of light bulbs and rock lyrics, over the road transport and fast food.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Wolf,

My only praise is for the productive element. The part where any of those top powerful people (Jewish and non-Jewish) are in bed with governments is not what I admire. You are correct to focus on this.

Michael

[studiodekadent]

I hate to be the Advocatus Diaboli here, but there is a considerable number of collectivist aspects to Jewish culture that cannot be ignored.

This of course doesn't mean that the achievements of Jewish persons are worth less. Im simply saying that, like many of us, they come from a culture with mixed premises. Credit should go to individuals, not cultures. After all, no one chooses to be born into any culture.

Hell, I was born into a culture that exhalts the normal, the conformist and the social, and look how I turned out.

I also have something to say about Wolf's post. I can understand why he looks at those with more modest (allegedly) intellects. I dont count myself amongst that group, however I can certify that what I would call an educated person is by no means a synonym of 'intelligent.' Look at any University Sociology faculty. The important thing is being rational (i.e. practicing actual 'common sense'), thinking independently etc. One does not have to be at, say, my level of intellect to do this.

Also, many people that would not consider themselves "intellectuals" are more smart than they give themselves credit for. Many people have the concepts in their head, without the words to attach to the concepts. These people will be able to understand philosophy, or economics, or anything with technical concepts, if you just explain it in simple language.

Sometimes Rand does come across as thinking money and intellect goes together (this is not a correct interpretation but its a common one), although she manifestly does not think this is always true. Mike Donnegan for example. But as I am also an Austrian economist, I can add that money comes from giving people what they want at a price they are willing to pay. This requires certain skills and character traits, but these traits often do not include massive technical intellects.

I have much more respect for thinking for oneself than for merely being 'educated.' Education is wonderful, but its no guarantee of moral nobility.

Edited October 14, 2007 by studiodekadent

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Andrew,

I had to learn to do the following by conscious choice and training (and I admit it was not easy): I can applaud the achievements of any controversial person or group of people without the need to qualify it at that particular moment. The Jews deserve every bit of the praise they get for their hard work. They earned it and, as to my part, they will get it from me.

I draw the line with things like Nazis building roads, but I love to look up at things to admire. And I do so admire the men and women on top enormously for their good qualities. I strongly admire the parts of the Jewish culture (as with American culture or with any culture) that encourages rational productive achievement and valuing life on earth.

It is the choice of individuals within each culture to teach their young to keep those values to a high standard and to live according to those standards themselves. There are too many to praise individually (and I don't know them all anyway), so a collective term is very useful here. When I say "Jews" in the context of praise for achievement, I am not including any Jewish slackers in that praise. I think that is understood coming from an Objectivist.

Michael

[studiodekadent]

Andrew,

I had to learn to do the following by conscious choice and training (and I admit it was not easy): I can applaud the achievements of any controversial person or group of people without the need to qualify it at that particular moment. The Jews deserve every bit of the praise they get for their hard work. They earned it and, as to my part, they will get it from me.

I draw the line with things like Nazis building roads, but I love to look up at things to admire. And I do so admire the men and women on top enormously for their good qualities. I strongly admire the parts of the Jewish culture (as with American culture or with any culture) that encourages rational productive achievement and valuing life on earth.

It is the choice of individuals within each culture to teach their young to keep those values to a high standard and to live according to those standards themselves. There are too many to praise individually (and I don't know them all anyway), so a collective term is very useful here. When I say "Jews" in the context of praise for achievement, I am not including any Jewish slackers in that praise. I think that is understood coming from an Objectivist.

I understand. That attitude makes sense. Although I personally prefer to use more qualifiers, I can understand why in this context you considered them unnecessary.

[Selene]

Andrew,

I had to learn to do the following by conscious choice and training (and I admit it was not easy): I can applaud the achievements of any controversial person or group of people without the need to qualify it at that particular moment. The Jews deserve every bit of the praise they get for their hard work. They earned it and, as to my part, they will get it from me.

I draw the line with things like Nazis building roads, but I love to look up at things to admire. And I do so admire the men and women on top enormously for their good qualities. I strongly admire the parts of the Jewish culture (as with American culture or with any culture) that encourages rational productive achievement and valuing life on earth.

It is the choice of individuals within each culture to teach their young to keep those values to a high standard and to live according to those standards themselves. There are too many to praise individually (and I don't know them all anyway), so a collective term is very useful here. When I say "Jews" in the context of praise for achievement, I am not including any Jewish slackers in that praise. I think that is understood coming from an Objectivist.

I understand. That attitude makes sense. Although I personally prefer to use more qualifiers, I can understand why in this context you considered them unnecessary.

I am knew to these forums. Therefore I may be missing something in this tread. We are having this discussion to establish that there are productive and non-productive Jews, Italians, Ethiopians....? I a lot confused here. Or is this the cleverly secret satire area?

[Wolf DeVoon]

I dunno. Productivity is a wertfrei economic term.

W.

[Selene]

I dunno. Productivity is a wertfrei economic term.

W.

Geez! Now it gets bilingual! Excellent point though, economics is value-free. Ahh, Ludwig how nice to hear the sweet ring of German floating over the the rolling hills of Buchenwald.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Selene,

Objectivist forums are not the best place to try to understand Islam or Jews. However, I have set a goal of trying to understand all this given that (a.) the present hostilities involve Islamist regimes and the Israel/Palestine conflict, and (b.) my own (estranged) children are partially Muslim by upbringing. What breaks my heart is to see Objectivism used for racism and bigotry, and this happens a lot—both to claim that Muslims are subhuman (this is both stated outright and/or strongly insinuated) and at times to claim that Jews are somehow inherently superior (usually not stated outright, but instead with a strong insinuation to this effect).

So I try hard to keep criticism and praise to facts and not based on racial/cultural oversimplifications. The present thread is based on a current news item I gleaned off of Drudge. Just because I do not believe in inherent superiority of any race, I do believe in recognizing achievement if a race/culture is notably present. I would have mentioned this item if the near 50% had been Japanese or Italian or Scientologists or Muslims. But being Jewish is particularly sensitive because so many people want to twist news like this in so many different ways.

I know of no other way to show I mean what I say about being principle-oriented other than saying what I mean in these kinds of cases and sticking to it. I probably piss a lot of people off because I keep to principles like reason and production and not to one side or another based on an "us against them" standard. I also try to study a bit of history in the meantime. I have found a lot of sudden so-called experts who know no history or facts at all other than the same few overly-biased items floating around the blogoshpere. I don't want to be one more. I have some real work to do. (You can read some of my initial research work in the section "Mideast.")

My objective is to let the military to the job of the military and do something from my end to help terminate hostilities by doing some of the intellectual work of spreading the adoption of individual rights and separation of church and state among Muslim individuals. I don't expect to do a one-man war, but I do expect to do what little I can with competence.

Michael

[BaalChatzaf]

Jewish power dominates at 'Vanity Fair'

By NATHAN BURSTEIN

October 11, 2007

Jewish World

From the article:

It's a list of "the world's most powerful people," 100 of the bankers and media moguls, publishers and image makers who shape the lives of billions. It's an exclusive, insular club, one whose influence stretches around the globe but is concentrated strategically in the highest corridors of power.

More than half its members, at least by one count, are Jewish.

I normally do not like ethnic stories, but when praise is due for produced achievement, I think one should praise. A heartfelt congratulations to an amazing culture, the Jews. May all men learn from them the reasons they are so well represented among the top.

Michael

Anything accomplished by these capable fellows who run -Vanity Fair- and happen to be Jewish could have been done by equally capable fellows who happen to be gentiles.

That being said, the Jewish ethos is the result of Darwinian type selection (according to Van Den Haag anyway). It is a set of customs, values, rules and principles that evolved from surviving attacks by nations and groups who were determined to eliminate Jews and Judaism. The tough and the tough minded survived. Jews have had the shit kicked out of them (for being Jewish) over a period of over two thousand years. One of two things will occur: the victims will be wiped out or they will learn to live in spite of the violence directed against them. Think of survival as a character building exercise. See -Jews, History and God- by Diamont. See also -The Jewish Mystique- by Ernst Van Den Haag. Think also of the irony of a Jewish tourist viewing the Titus Arch in Rome. Judea Capta, it says on The Arch. So who survived? The Jews or the Imperial Romans?

Van Den Haag points out the preferred status of scholars and rabbis was -inadvertently- a breeding program for high intelligence. It goes like this: young men who are outstanding scholars in Halacha (Jewish Law) are considered worthy mates for the daughters of the wealthy and the capable. In effect, bright people are breeding children and producing bright offspring. In the Christian world the brightest men were going into the Catholic Priesthood or monasteries and removing their genes from the pool. What results from that? Furthermore in Jewish culture, productive work is considered a religious duty. As the teaching goes: Torah is not a spade. Even the experts in Halacha are expected to earn their keep. Work may have been Adam's curse, but it is the higher calling for Jews. There is nothing in Judaism, as a religion and philosophy, that calls for a leisure class. There are no philosopher kings in Judaism. But -anyone- who has the brains to master Halacha (regardless of who his parents are) earns standing and respect. The Jewish "breeding program" is the very antithesis of Plato's Republic.

Through a series of accidents, fortuitous events and rational response to adversity, Jews have made high intelligence and tough mindedness (and a refusal to lay down and die) a part of their culture. As the old saying goes: Every blow which does not kill me, makes me stronger.

By the way, have you noticed that the Objectivist Movement was -started- by people brought up Jewish? God works in mysterious ways.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Edited October 14, 2007 by BaalChatzaf

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Bob,

Let's put it this way. I don't think a Jewish orphan raised in another culture necessarily has genetic intellectual advantages over others in that culture because of some kind of social Darwinism affecting his innate capacities.

There is no biological (or moral) excuse for racism.

Jewish achievement (qua collective observation) is the sole result of Jews in general valuing the right things and teaching them to the young. Take away that and such achievement will not exist (collectively).

Michael

[Selene]

Selene,

Objectivist forums are not the best place to try to understand Islam or Jews. However, I have set a goal of trying to understand all this given that (a.) the present hostilities involve Islamist regimes and the Israel/Palestine conflict, and (b.) my own (estranged) children are partially Muslim by upbringing. What breaks my heart is to see Objectivism used for racism and bigotry, and this happens a lot—both to claim that Muslims are subhuman (this is both stated outright and/or strongly insinuated) and at times to claim that Jews are somehow inherently superior (usually not stated outright, but instead with a strong insinuation to this effect).

So I try hard to keep criticism and praise to facts and not based on racial/cultural oversimplifications. The present thread is based on a current news item I gleaned off of Drudge. Just because I do not believe in inherent superiority of any race, I do believe in recognizing achievement if a race/culture is notably present. I would have mentioned this item if the near 50% had been Japanese or Italian or Scientologists or Muslims. But being Jewish is particularly sensitive because so many people want to twist news like this in so many different ways.

I know of no other way to show I mean what I say about being principle-oriented other than saying what I mean in these kinds of cases and sticking to it. I probably piss a lot of people off because I keep to principles like reason and production and not to one side or another based on an "us against them" standard. I also try to study a bit of history in the meantime. I have found a lot of sudden so-called experts who know no history or facts at all other than the same few overly-biased items floating around the blogoshpere. I don't want to be one more. I have some real work to do. (You can read some of my initial research work in the section "Mideast.")

My objective is to let the military to the job of the military and do something from my end to help terminate hostilities by doing some of the intellectual work of spreading the adoption of individual rights and separation of church and state among Muslim individuals. I don't expect to do a one-man war, but I do expect to do what little I can with competence.

Michael

Michael, accept my apology. Firstly, I was attempting to be my usual satirical self which sometimes can offend that is why I stated that I was new to this forum.

Additionally, I am a divorce and family mediator by profession and I share your particular situation concerning the ability of the State to interfere with and actually promulgate the destruction of family and the natural authority of a parent and their child.

Furthermore, having lived in NYCity for 95 % of my life, the whole "Jewish thing" is ingrained in our skins. You are absolutely correct concerning the underlying patterns of prejudice that exist amonst too many people. My parents raised me to never judge a person by anything but their individual behavior, character and actions. I know no other way therefore, I tend to criticize any pre-judging of any individual that appeared based on a "class" assumption.

I should follow my own critics hypocratic oath which begins with "Critic, do no harm!"

Please accept my apology.

[Wolf DeVoon]

Van Den Haag points out the preferred status of scholars and rabbis was -inadvertently- a breeding program for high intelligence.

Bob, I accept this account as true. Christianity was/is a disaster. Islam too was erected on the Judeo-Christian notion of one supernatural Supreme Being and obligatory Divine Law revealed to the prophets (Moses, Jesus, Mohammed). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've read that all three religions teach that Divine Law must be imposed globally upon heathens and infidels, and that's the basic geopolitical problem today: Jews, Christians, and Muslims vying for victory in Holy War.

Objectivism and skeptical humanism have made very little progress, except in the narrow sense of giving the warring tribes cheap consumer goods and preposterously better munitions. China and Russia see us as chumps to be milked.

Got any idea how to fix this?

W.

[BaalChatzaf]

Van Den Haag points out the preferred status of scholars and rabbis was -inadvertently- a breeding program for high intelligence.

Bob, I accept this account as true. Christianity was/is a disaster. Islam too was erected on the Judeo-Christian notion of one supernatural Supreme Being and obligatory Divine Law revealed to the prophets (Moses, Jesus, Mohammed). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've read that all three religions teach that Divine Law must be imposed globally upon heathens and infidels, and that's the basic geopolitical problem today: Jews, Christians, and Muslims vying for victory in Holy War.

Objectivism and skeptical humanism have made very little progress, except in the narrow sense of giving the warring tribes cheap consumer goods and preposterously better munitions. China and Russia see us as chumps to be milked.

Got any idea how to fix this?

W.

Rabbinical Judaism, the form of Judaism that survived, teaches no such thing. It is the burden of Jews to be God's Special Folk and demonstrate by their righteousness the truth of God's Commandments. The Goal is not to make everyone Jewish. The Goal is to convince mankind to obey the seven Noachide Laws **. And this to be done by example, not by violence or conquest. The earliest form of the religion, practiced by the Israelites who invaded what came to be called the Holy Land or the Land Promised to Abraham and his Descendants, was as violent and nasty as is Islam today. It goes back to a time when there were no Jews, but only Israelites who were ten hairs short of being baboons. The term "Jew" refers to the descendants of the Tribe of Judah and by inclusion the few Benjimanites and Levites who survived the Diaspara and still retained their historical identity. The other Tribes of Israel are the so-called Lost Tribes.

The major corpus of teaching in Rabbinic Judaism is the Talmud, not the Bible. The authoritative tradition is the Oral Tradition, now set down in writing as the Babylonian Talmud. The Jews got out of the conversion business over 2000 years ago. Any conversions TO Judaism are voluntary and generally discouraged by the Rabbis. Particularly conversions made by non-Jewish wives to Jewish men. Since descent as a Jew is now reckoned by matrilineal descent the idea is to kept the lines of descent as "pure" or as unconfused as possible. However if a person is determined to become Jewish and is willing to study the commandments and to keep them, Rabbis will affirm the conversion. It is not easy, but it is doable.

Jews do not see themselves as being the Warriors of God. They see themselves as being obliged to keep God's commandments the chiefest of which is: Thou shall love thy neighbor as thou love thyself. The essence of Judaism, as taught by the Rabbis and Sages is ethical, not theological. The idea is to be a Light Unto the Nations, not a Conqueror of Nations.

If I had my druthers and were not born Jewish, I would be a B'nai Noach, a member of that set of humanity that keeps the Noachide Laws. But since I did not choose my Mom, here I am, a Jew. Not a very observant Jew, but a Jew down to my toenails. If I were a B'nai Noach, I would be a champ. Keeping the seven Noachide Laws is a slam-dunk for anyone brought up Jewish, where one is obliged to 613 laws. Seven is always easier than 613 particularly since the Seven Noachic Laws are a proper subset of the 613 Commandments.

** see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noachide_Laws

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Brant Gaede]

The average IQ of Jews of European stock is 115. They were historically forced into professions where brains counted.

--Brant

[BaalChatzaf]

The average IQ of Jews of European stock is 115. They were historically forced into professions where brains counted.

--Brant

Gentile prejudice actually -contributed- to the "breeding program". Interesting. The Gentiles who hated Jews inadvertently helped to -create- the thing they hated. Interesting. Fascinating (as Spock would say). By the way Spock is Jewish according to Halacha, since his human mother Amanda is a descendant of Jews. Live long and Prosper. L'Chayim. Sei Gesundt!

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Wolf DeVoon]

Okay, but we're still stuck with...

the basic geopolitical problem today: ..., Christians, and Muslims vying for victory in Holy War.

Objectivism and skeptical humanism have made very little progress, except in the narrow sense of giving the warring tribes cheap consumer goods and preposterously better munitions. China and Russia see us as chumps to be milked.

Got any idea how to fix this?

W.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Jews do not see themselves as being the Warriors of God. They see themselves as being obliged to keep God's commandments the chiefest of which is: Thou shall love thy neighbor as thou love thyself.

Bob,

Just a curiosity. Is that in the Talmud? I am not a religious scholar, but I was always taught (and have always read) that this came from elsewhere.

Michael

[BaalChatzaf]

Jews do not see themselves as being the Warriors of God. They see themselves as being obliged to keep God's commandments the chiefest of which is: Thou shall love thy neighbor as thou love thyself.

Bob,

Just a curiosity. Is that in the Talmud? I am not a religious scholar, but I was always taught (and have always read) that this came from elsewhere.

Michael

It is in the book of Leviticus(Va'yikrah in Hebrew) in the portion called K'doshim (this is how Jews divide up the books of the Bible). I think it is around chapter 18 or thereabouts. The consequences of the ueber commandment is at the basis of all ethical matters discussed in the Talmud. In short, this commandment is a given, from which all other consequences flow. The principle that the same ethical rules apply to -everyone- , one's self and one's neighbor is the central principle of Jewish ethics. There is no self sacrifice in Judaism, making it a non-altruistic religion.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Bob,

Would you mind supplying a quote? From what I read of Leviticus 18, the commandment would be "Thou shall not have sex with thy neighbor or most anything else." A bit heavy on the word "defile." The penalty is excommunication.

Interestingly, here is an entry called Collective Guilt, Collective Atonement from a blog on the Torah. This concept certainly does border on self-sacrifice.

Michael