Thoughts on the Boston Marathon Bombing?

[dennislmay]

It appears Beck is making two separate claims. The first is that the feds allowed a known threat – the Saudi character – into the country, just like they did for some of the men who soon became the 9-11 hijackers (see the Shea Memorandum).

The second is that this Saudi character has something to do with the Boston Marathon bombing.

Is that right? (I don't watch Beck.)

That is the two main claims - both of which seem to stem from the same set of documents. The more damning part is the electronic trail of the cover-up where the administration attempted to destroy the documents and a series of differing false stories were fed congress and the media as they kept altering or destroying documents. It seems the inside whistleblowers have all the documents before and after alternation and the electronic trail of who did the alternations and when to be matched to the timeline of changing stories.

Dennis

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

He has a mind?

Mark,

I know that's a quip, but of course Bob has a mind. He denies it, but has a beautiful one.

Just like you do.

Michael

[dennislmay]

He has a mind?

Mark,

I know that's a quip, but of course Bob has a mind. He denies it, but has a beautiful one.

Just like you do.

Michael

Though I hate repeating the same arguments over and over Bob is actually in good company. Few people have more interesting things to say, he is correct on many things, and some of the best people at Atlantis_II also refused information sources and I never could understand why on them either.

Dennis

[Mark]

Yealch. MSK has no reason to say I have a "beautiful mind" – a phrase that in any case must be meaningless if applied with such catholicity.

The trash-mouthed Kolker is background noise – wrong on most things, ill-natured, the blowhard found on every discussion group who replies to threads even when he has nothing to say.

[dennislmay]

From The Wilkow Majority - the documents have now been made secret after the attempt to delete them failed.

The Saudi student was described as armed and dangerous in the original documents, on the terrorist watch

list plus no-fly.

Dennis

[dennislmay]

From The Wilkow Majority - the documents have now been made secret after the attempt to delete them failed.

The Saudi student was described as armed and dangerous in the original documents, on the terrorist watch

list plus no-fly.

Dennis

Another good point on The Wilkow Majority - when Mrs. Obama met with the Saudi student the Secret Service had to already know he was on the terrorist watch and no fly list and considered to be armed and dangerous. She met with the "student" after the Saudi big dog met with President Obama. A security analyst said that had the appearance of a gesture to Saudi Arabia.

Dennis

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Yealch. MSK has no reason to say I have a "beautiful mind" – a phrase that in any case must be meaningless if applied with such catholicity.

Mark,

LOL...

I do have a touch-feely side, don't I?

But I said it and I meant it.

The reasons?...

Hmmmm...

You will probably have to look for them in my beautiful mind.

I bet you have been accused of many things in life, but I bet this one is a first.

Michael

[KacyRay]

I would have a hard time believe Glenn Beck if he told me the time of day. I would double check it on my watch.

I have a hard time discussing information with people who purposefully cut themselves off from information.

Dennis

Do you call Glenn Beck horsesh*t information?

I guess I will discuss information from all sources while you discuss a limited set of information with those who want to only discuss limited sets of information.

Dennis

Glenn Beck doesn't provide information. He spews sensationalistic, alarmist, conspiracy-theory bullshit and masquerades it around as information. There is absolutely no value to be found in listening to Glenn Beck.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Glenn Beck doesn't provide information. He spews sensationalistic, alarmist, conspiracy-theory bullshit and masquerades it around as information. There is absolutely no value to be found in listening to Glenn Beck.

Kacy,

Heh.

If you hate Glenn Beck that much now, and his new campaign does what I think it's going to do, you might as well stock up on antacids.

He ain't going nowhere. But I suspect several people in the current administration will be.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Here is some non-information with some non-experts and non-Congress members, some non-links going to some non-sites, and some very non-real non-government non-terrorism non-documents that have been non-altered.

And some non-statements by Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano to help out with the "nons."

CAN A 212, 3B FILE BE CHANGED? EXPERTS WEIGH IN ON SAUDI NATIONAL’S STATUS

Michael

[KacyRay]

Glenn Beck doesn't provide information. He spews sensationalistic, alarmist, conspiracy-theory bullshit and masquerades it around as information. There is absolutely no value to be found in listening to Glenn Beck.

Kacy,

Heh.

If you hate Glenn Beck that much now, and his new campaign does what I think it's going to do, you might as well stock up on antacids.

He ain't going nowhere. But I suspect several people in the current administration will be.

Michael

Glenn Beck has no influence over anything relevant. I see him as no different than Donald Trump, constantly challenging the White House just to gain attention for himself. He's a political shock-jock who is always one big revelation away from bringing the whole place down... always one big revelation away...

He is the equivalent of a political troll, relegated to backchannels where only those who take him seriously have to listen to him, and (mercifully) no one else.

I don't hate him. I'm not sure I hate anyone... but if I do, that emotion would be reserved for someone much more relevant than Glenn Beck.

Do you honestly believe anyone at the White House takes Glenn Beck seriously? I mean, I have trouble finding people on the street who do. How can you think anyone at the White House does?

[KacyRay]

Here is some non-information with some non-experts and non-Congress members, some non-links going to some non-sites, and some very non-real non-government non-terrorism non-documents that have been non-altered.

And some non-statements by Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano to help out with the "nons."

CAN A 212, 3B FILE BE CHANGED? EXPERTS WEIGH IN ON SAUDI NATIONAL’S STATUS

Michael

From the article:

• A Saudi national originally identified as a “person of interest” in the Boston Marathon bombing was set to be deported under section 212, 3B — “Security and related grounds” — “Terrorist activities” after the bombing on April 15
• TheBlaze received word that the government may not deport the Saudi national — identified as Abdul Rahman Ali Alharbi — as the story gained traction on April 18.
• Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano refused to answer questions on the subject by Rep. Jeff Duncan (R-SC) on Capitol Hill on April 18, saying the inquiry was “so full of misstatements and misapprehension that it’s just not worthy of an answer.”
• An ICE official said April 18 that a different Saudi national is in custody, but that he is “in no way” connected to the bombings.
• Key congressmen of the Committee on Homeland Security request a classified briefing with Napolitano on April 22
• New info provided to TheBlaze reveals Alharbi’s file was altered on the evening of April 17 to disassociate him from the initial charges
• Sources say April 22 that the Saudi’s student visa specifically allows him to go to school in Findlay, Ohio, though he appears to have an apartment in Boston, Mass. A DHS official told TheBlaze Alharbi properly transferred his student visa to a school in Massachusetts.
• TheBlaze sources reveal April 22 that Alharbi was put on a terror watchlist after the bombing, and Napolitano confirmed on April 23 that he was briefly on a “watchlist”

Or...

• A Saudi national originally identified as a “person of interest” in the Boston Marathon bombing was set to be deported under section 212, 3B — “Security and related grounds” — “Terrorist activities” after the bombing on April 15
• TheBlaze received word (from whom?)
• Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano refused to answer questions on the subject by Rep. Jeff Duncan (R-SC) on Capitol Hill on April 18, saying the inquiry was “so full of misstatements and misapprehension that it’s just not worthy of an answer.”
• An ICE official said (what ICE official?)
• Key congressmen of the Committee on Homeland Security request a classified briefing with Napolitano on April 22
• New info provided to TheBlaze (from whom?)
• Sources say (what sources?)
• TheBlaze sources reveal (what sources?)

Now, there's some crack journalism! I wonder if that source is... Glenn Beck? Alex Jones? Aunt Jamaima?

I can imagine that Napolitano has enough on her plate with actual, real-world issues that she has no time or patience for questions regarding conspiracy theories.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Do you honestly believe anyone at the White House takes Glenn Beck seriously? I mean, I have trouble finding people on the street who do. How can you think anyone at the White House does?

Kacy,

Do I honestly believe the WH folks take Glenn seriously?

Yup.

You sound like you live in a bubble where some local folks supply the narrative and say the whole world thinks that way. You should get out more.

Michael

[KacyRay]

Do you honestly believe anyone at the White House takes Glenn Beck seriously? I mean, I have trouble finding people on the street who do. How can you think anyone at the White House does?

Kacy,

Do I honestly believe the WH folks take Glenn seriously?

Yup.

You sound like you live in a bubble where some local folks supply the narrative and say the whole world thinks that way. You should get out more.

Michael

Heh... I hope you're joking. (I assume you know that I'm deployed on a ship in a war zone right now and that I attend an operations/intelligence brief 7 days a week)

Look, here's what I'll offer... make a verifiable, falsifiable claim. Tell us all how this is going to play out. Make a prediction that can be verified or falsified. What exactly is going to happen? I'd extend this offer to dennis or anyone else who thinks that Glenn Beck has some earth-shattering information up his ass that will have a cataclysmic affect on the Obama administration.

And please, I don't want anything like "Doh... Beck is gonna bring the administration to its knees!" or some such meaningless platitude. Offer something measurable - something verifiable.

Offer up something that, in the coming months, we can look back on and determine who was right and who was foolish. I'm more than willing to revisit this and find out. But you have to make a real prediction - not an arbitrary claim or a meaningless, undefined platitude.

What, exactly, do you think Beck is going to spring on the administration, and what impact, specifically, do you think it will have? And when? (Give us a delimited period of time, after which we can verify if you were right).

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Now, there's some crack journalism! I wonder if that source is... Glenn Beck? Alex Jones? Aunt Jamaima?

Kacy,

You haven't really looked, have you?

Seek and ye shall find.

Even Glenn says don't believe him. Do your own homework.

But I already know ye won't seek, not on his site, not anywhere else. (Not even right in the same article.)

Ye shall let others seek for ye and ye shall repeat their caricature narratives.

Until the thing blows up, Glenn is once more proven to be right, and once again some Obama people lose their jobs.

Then ye shall be silent--for a while.

Then it shall go around again.

So I'm not going to go on with this.

You're entitled to your opinion.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Kacy,

If you are honestly interested in making a sincere attempt to look at some of the things Glenn has correctly predicted and exposed, I'll go into some later.

And framed that way, rather than tell you what Glenn says will happen, I will provide videos, etc., and let him speak for himself. (And, going by your total lack of knowledge about him, I'll also let some people--both left and right--who will shock you to the core to see them standing beside Glenn speak for themselves.)

But to keep hearing Media Matters talking points and mockery is not interesting to me.

That stuff is far more fun as banter.

Michael

[Serapis Bey]

But I already know ye won't seek, not on his site, not anywhere else. (Not even right in the same article.)

Ye shall let others seek for ye and ye shall repeat their caricature narratives.

But Michael, Kacy gets his info from ThinkProgress and RightWingWatch. Are you suggesting such sources are not objective??? Say it isn't so!

[KacyRay]

MSK,

I can't watch streaming video. It's one of the major inconveniences I suffer being out here.

If you're suggesting I'm offering Media Matters talking points.. that would be difficult since I don't have any direct knowledge of what those are. I'm speaking of my own personal experience and knowledge of Beck.

Are you not going to offer any specifics on what Beck is going to do? Nothing falsifiable? I mean, dennis has been making it sound like something huge is about to go down, and Obama is pretty close to having his regimen crumble out from under him, and you seem to concur.

So I'm asking a reasonable question - what exactly is about to happen? What do you see in the foreseeable future here? I'm not asking you to write a book... I'm just asking for something verifiable. With all the speculation going around, and as credible as you find Beck to be... that's not an unreasonable question.

[KacyRay]

But I already know ye won't seek, not on his site, not anywhere else. (Not even right in the same article.)

Ye shall let others seek for ye and ye shall repeat their caricature narratives.

But Michael, Kacy gets his info from ThinkProgress and RightWingWatch. Are you suggesting such sources are not objective??? Say it isn't so!

Ah, Serapis Ad Hom Bey... good to see you're making valuable contributions to the discussion as usual.

[KacyRay]

Notice, I'm not offering information. I'm demonstrating that no useful information has been offered... nothing but alarmism and hysterics.

And I'm offering anyone the chance to offer useful information. "Glenn Beck" says something is not useful information. He's an alarmist who has been predicting doomsday for years. To him, tomorrow is always the day it's going to happen.

[Serapis Bey]

Are you not going to offer any specifics on what Beck is going to do? Nothing falsifiable? I mean, dennis has been making it sound like something huge is about to go down, and Obama is pretty close to having his regimen crumble out from under him, and you seem to concur.

The administration might not crumble. Look how they got away with BenghaziGate. Doesn't mean they didn't lie or cover up.

I seem to recall that whole debacle was never FB-worthy for you. You had more important matters to address. Like the hair-splitting pedantry over whether Obama did or did not specifically say "terrorism" or "acts of terror" or whatever that whole mess was about. The Administration's actions led to the needless deaths of Americans overseas, but you were more interested in scoring points against those abomindable "rad-cons."

[KacyRay]

The administration might not crumble. Look how they got away with BenghaziGate. Doesn't mean they didn't lie or cover up.

I seem to recall that whole debacle was never FB-worthy for you. You had more important matters to address. Like the hair-splitting pedantry over whether Obama did or did not specifically say "terrorism" or "acts of terror" or whatever that whole mess was about. The Administration's actions led to the needless deaths of Americans overseas, but you were more interested in scoring points against those abomindable "rad-cons."

I don't recall any information being presented that merited any real consideration. I remember it was all conjecture and speculation mixed with half-truths.

I also remember that the discussion took place while the entire incident was still under investigation.

So SB, why don't you tell us... what will Beck spring on us? What's really happening here? I see that you have your convenient "out" whenever you need it... if something happens, you can claim that guys like Beck predicted it, if nothing happens, it means the regime "got away with it" again. How convenient. It's the perfect formula for alarmists and conspiracy lovers to never have to be accountable for being flat-out wrong.

Meanwhile, I look outside, and the sun is still shining. Everything is just fine... regardless of how awful you try to convince me things are.

Oh, I know... the world will come to an end tomorrow. You should mount that sign on your wall, since it's true every single day.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I can't watch streaming video. It's one of the major inconveniences I suffer being out here.

If you're suggesting I'm offering Media Matters talking points.. that would be difficult since I don't have any direct knowledge of what those are. I'm speaking of my own personal experience and knowledge of Beck.

Kacy,

I'm sorry to hear you cannot watch streaming videos.

About Media Matters, it doesn't matter. The talking points are the same across a variety of media organizations and they filter into the mainstream readership either directly or through special feeds. This is proven, too. I can't remember the name of the things, but I know where to look to get the details if I ever need to write about them.

The Progressives have communications that go out every day telling the Progressive media what to discuss and how to discuss it. That's why everyone is talking about the same thing and having the same opinion in the mainstream media all the time. One day it's Treyvon Martin. The next it's some politician or other. The next it's gun control. And so on. And the opinions and distortions are identical everywhere you look.

(btw - The conservatives do this crap, too.)

So when I say Media Matters, I'm just using one of the worst actors in this process as an indication of the entire system. I really mean the talking points from the Progressive propaganda machine (filtered down to you).

btw - I'm confused how you cannot get video, but you say you are going on your personal familiarity with Glenn.

How can you be familiar with him if you can't get his videos? That kind of inconsistency makes me prefer to keep things to the banter level with you.

I'll let you say I don't mention anything "falsifiable" because there is nothing I can mention, etc. etc. etc..

Go for it.

I've got all kinds of quick comebacks and we can have lots of fun.

I've learned the hard way that when people are predisposed to a narrative so strongly they bash in talking points and say this is their own thinking, no matter what facts or information you show them, their cybernetic system always gets them back on course to the narrative.

So banter it is for now.

Go on. Show us how much of a fool Beck is.

(But I still suggest you keep your antacids handy for a cybernetic system crash. )

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

This comment is for the reader.

Here's one of the reasons I don't engage in challenges like above (as presented). And please understand, I like Kacy.

But for me to discuss something seriously, I have a minimum standard I expect out of the other party,

I posted a link to an article from TheBlaze: CAN A 212, 3B FILE BE CHANGED? EXPERTS WEIGH IN ON SAUDI NATIONAL’S STATUS

Right within the body of that article is a copy of the file in question.

This is the cover of what is called an event file. (You can read more about what it means here.) Note that publishing this is libel if it is false. And Glenn has spread it out all over the place, not just in this article.

Also, right there at the end of the article, there is a video with Former United States Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) Special Agent Bob Trent. And he has a mouthful to say about the seriousness of the mess the USA government is making of this issue.

But in the discussion, it is treated as if it doesn't exist while I get questioned about what are Glenn's sources, Captain Kangaroo?... yada yada yada.

I'm supposed to take that seriously?

Heh.

Now there actually is a real problem. Many of Glenn's whistleblowers are in high positions in the government and they are running a very real risk of not only losing their jobs, but jail time. That is why the Special Agent on video is a former one. The active ones are afraid.

One of Glenn's employees who is helping him on the current campaign is Buck Sexton. Here is his author blurb on TheBlaze:

Before joining the Blaze, Buck served as an officer in the Central Intelligence Agency, assigned to the Counterterrorism Center and Office of Iraq Analysis. He also served as an analyst for the NYPD Intelligence Division. He has field experience in the Middle East, South Asia, and Africa.

Former CIA.

Now even this could sound mock-worthy if US Congress members were not involved. But they are. Representatives Jeff Duncan (South Carolina), Michael T. McCaul (Texas), Peter King (New York), and Candice Miller (Michigan) are totally on board, and they are just the tip of the iceberg. I only mention those four because they are the only ones who have put their names to an official document so far.

Google it and see.

This thing is growing, too. And the Progressive media is starting to have a fit.

Stay tuned because it will get worse.

But I don't think any of this has any importance to a person who only believes "Glenn Beck never presents any information" yada yada yada. And until the Progressive narrative gets dislodged in that person's mind and replaced by objectivity, I don't think these kinds of facts ever will. So I simply don't discuss it seriously in that context.

That's also why I don't engage in a non-serious challenge.

Note that the information in this post is just slapped together so I can illustrate a point to you. It's not nearly my best shot. (Regular OL readers already know this.) But a normal reader can see that there is something very ugly coming to the surface and that good, serious, concerned people are involved.

Now on the persuasion angle, notice how substance gets buried in the thread when there is a barrage of long posts saying only "Glenn Beck sucks," "No he doesn't," "Yes he does," "No he doesn't," (and so on).

This kind of exchange buries the issue and the reader eventually gets bored and moves on.

I'm not saying this happened on purpose this time, but I do know this is a formal technique. I've seen it taught.

Don't worry, though.

I will keep the substance alive, and I am sure Dennis and others will, too.

From what I have seen so far, this story is too important to let die.

But please look into this stuff for yourself, too. Like Glenn says, don't just take my word for it. Look into it and educate yourself on the facts.

Michael

[KacyRay]

MSK,

Glenn Beck has been around for a long time... When i say I can't get streaming video, I mean here on the ship. I've been deployed since February 11th. When I stop at liberty ports (which happens once a month if we're lucky), I could potentially get streaming video if I find a wifi, but the odds of me spending my liberty port time watching political videos or even discussing them is slim to none. I'm also the assistant senior shore patrol officer, so I actually have a job to do even when we visit ports.

So when I talk about my experience regarding Beck, I'm talking about what I've known about him over the years. I've seen his chalkboards, his conspiracy theories, his "expose's" of the menacing wolf that's always waiting just outside the door. I've heard him tell us all of the impending doom that awaits us all upon Obama's election (and reelection), and how in just a few short months, we wouldn't even be able to recognize the USA anymore.

Glenn Beck's stock-in-trade is fear. He cries and panics and implores us all to do the same.

I equate people who believe Glenn Beck's alarmism to people who believe the rapture is imminent.

But as to your offer for me to show you how foolish Beck is, I'd just point out two things...

1- You're switching the burden of proof. dennis (and yourself at this point) have asserted that Glenn Beck has some sort of inside scoop about the administration.

Dennis said "I like that Beck is sitting on a bunch more information and intends to let it drip drip drip according to how the Obama administration reacts. He has warned journalists this will blow up in their faces if they don't get involved. He has warned government officials this will cause some to lose their jobs and things will only get worse if they don't do the right thing."

"blow up in their face" is pretty vague. "some will lose their jobs" is vague as well (when, exactly? And for what?) And what does "do the right thing" mean? You see how all of this is just demagoguery and vague platitudes? Nothing specific... all just "a bunch more information"... really?

Reminds me of Trumps "big big news!!!' that was nothing more than a challenge to Obama. Or his private investigation into Obama's birth certificate coming up with "huge findings" that to this day still haven't been revealed. Yet there are still people who take Trump seriously.

So no.. it's not my responsibility to demonstrate that Beck misses the mark. When you positively claim that he has something solid, it's on you to back that up.

2- Your challenge for me to do so actually gnaws at me because, if I had an internet connection with full capabilities and no filters, I know for a fact I could dig in a find an unending supply of Beck's dire predictions that have never come to fruition. So again... maybe I'll revisit this thread in the future when I can do that and present some of what I'm thinking of. But for now, I'll have to be content with pointing out that nothing of substance has been presented here.

"Oooh... something BIG is about to happen! Glenn Beck says so! Just wait... it'll happen any moment now.. just before Jesus returns!"

God, if I had a dollar for every time I heard that, I'd be a rich man.