Will Objectivism survive many more funerals?

[BaalChatzaf]

What will become of Objectivism when the Brandens, LP and David Kelley depart the scene?

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Jerry Biggers]

I can't see David Kelley as making much of a difference to the Objectivist scene. I'm referring to his rather unispiring rhetrical skills. Much better to read rhan to lsten t as a lecturer. He had his chance to wrest away the title of leading scholar f Objectvism from Leonard Peikpff, but has essentally blew it by not completing (AND publishing his The Logical Structure of Objectivism, letting it languish for 14+ years as a "beta" file on the Atlas Society's website. The book appeared to be almost finished. It easily could have supplanted Peikoff's OPAR, IF it had been published and widely distributed/

Five years' ago at a TAS summer seminar, I asked its co-author, Willl Thomas, as to.when it was to be published. He expressed little interest in it, describing it as "boring" and essentially un-interesting. Okay, ....I see.

When Peikoff is gone, the ARI will be free to take positions that Leonard would not have approved (he owns much of the material n the ARI archives)..

The Brandens have health problems and ...

[jts]

What will become of Objectivism when the Brandens, LP and David Kelley depart the scene?

Ba'al Chatzaf

The Brandens were disfellowshipped by Ayn Rand a long time ago. David Kelley was disfellowshipped by LP. LP is old and is now little more than a figurehead.

[studiodekadent]

Objectivism is a set of ideas, and generation after generation discovers and reads Ayn Rand.

Objectivism will not die.

[Xray]

What will become of Objectivism when the Brandens, LP and David Kelley depart the scene?

Does there (aside from Peikoff's closed club and its sympathizers) still exist something which one could call an Objectivist scene?

[syrakusos]

Well, yeah... Us.

The objectivist discussion boards are the community core.

Objectivism Online Noodle Food are the closest to being the old guard with Betsy Speicher's "4RandFans" supporting that, though she herself is personally not close to the ARI, apparently. RoR also keeps close to the mainstream of Objectivism, relegating dissenters to the Dissent topic. OL is more of an outer ring environment, mostly accepting of the mainstream of Objectivism yet more open to other views as long as they are consonant with the general tenor of discussion. Someone who actually visits Lindsay Perrigo's "Sense of Life = Kick Ass Objectivism" might care to say more.

You can find some chat on Google Groups in both Humanities and Alt. I do not participate in Facebook, but I would be surprised if no Objectivist "walls" (or whatever) are available there.

That is pretty much the community.

Books, tapes, movies, YouTube, and occasional summer sessions fill in some gaps. RoR's Luke Setzer hosts a "Meet Up" in his area (Brevard County, Fla.) and others may exist as well. But the boards would continue without them. People will read the works of Ayn Rand, google her and find us.

Individualists live with a tension between our sense of isolation and a desire to socialize with others like ourselves. My experience is that such meetings are not rewarding. It is nice to see the range of individuals who are "like" yourself. After that, we just stand around or sit in circles making statements. Socializing is difficult to painful. I mean, this is not a convention of sales managers... so what can you expect? ...

I think that all things considered, the invention of the Internet really serves our needs as the People of the Future. We are pure mind ...

But as for the question at hand, like Logical Positivism, and Platonism, Objectivism will be around for centuries...

In The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, Thomas Kuhn points out that in science, we no longer have the Journal of Phlogiston Studies, but in philosophy, Aristotleans still make advances within a paradigm that talks past others of its genus.

Unlike the logical positivists, Humeans and Neo-Scholastics, but much like the Hegelians left and right - among many others such as Scientologists and Christians - Objectivists do have an agenda to change the world. That will keep it going, even if the merest value of its tenets could not attract interest.

[Brant Gaede]

What will become of Objectivism when the Brandens, LP and David Kelley depart the scene?

More of the same as what is going on now. ARI will spread out some more. Objectivism is not on life support and those fellows are not care-givers.

--Brant

[Brant Gaede]

What will become of Objectivism when the Brandens, LP and David Kelley depart the scene?

Ba'al Chatzaf

The Brandens were disfellowshipped by Ayn Rand a long time ago. David Kelley was disfellowshipped by LP. LP is old and is now little more than a figurehead.

Your disfellowshipping is an Objectivism cultural artifact that has been attenuated into jejune silliness.

--Brant

[Guyau]

Michael, I had very good experience with a living-room discussion group in Chicago. It has had a remarkable group of participants, ever-learning and a real pleasure to talk to. It’s been running continuously for about twenty-six years.* I think you are correct in seeing the discussion boards as being significant occasions of subculture society. It is different than presentations or discussions in person, of course. It is recorded, set down in writing, opening the possibility of extended thinking to which a reader can return in their own time. The record vanishes with the site, but on the other hand, readers are much in this medium.

Jerry, I expect very important publication presenting and developing Objectivist philosophy from David Kelley. The wait will not matter. Perhaps it will appear after the death of Leonard Peikoff. That potentially significant critic would then be absent the reception.

When the Brandens are deceased, I have a hunch the important biography on Rand by Shoshana Milgram will appear. We’ll see. Expect it will be excellent in any case.

When the Brandens and LP and all the others who personally knew Rand are deceased, Objectivist philosophy will continue to thrive, and posturing intended to please one or another of those persons will decline with each passing year. Also, Andrew is correct.* The important scene is individual life informed and inspired by the philosophy and fiction.*

Good things ahead, I think. Very good things have happened in recent years and are in progress in the way of scholarly books on Rand’s philosophy and literature. I mean the Essays on Ayn Rand’s . . . books, the books of Tara Smith, and the recent and forthcoming books edited or authored by Allan Gotthelf.

Dancing on the graves in internet forums by persons with personal animosity towards Peikoff (or Binswanger . . .) or the Brandens, continuing for a while the mean things said while they were living, is likely. Political enlistment of Rand’s political thought will continue as ever, of course, well-funded. Those are not the important scene.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

*By way of inner life, I have resumed writing some poetry and last week wrote my first one concerning metaphysics (which has long been against my poetry rules!), included in Objectivist subculture here.

[Brant Gaede]

I'm not into dancing on anybody's grave except Walter Duranty's and Herbert Matthews'. I don't know if the former has a grave or where it is. He died in Florida in 1957. The latter was buried in Australia, a country I'm likely to visit in the next ten years--for that and other reasons.

I just wish LP would stop with the silly pronouncements.

--Brant

sometimes it only seems like I'm speaking metaphorically

waiting for the NY Times to go belly up--it's carcass can't stink up the joint any worse than it has

[syrakusos]

Michael, I had very good experience with a living-room discussion group in Chicago. It has had a remarkable group of participants, ever-learning and a real pleasure to talk to. It’s been running continuously for about twenty-six years. ... the discussion boards as being significant occasions of subculture society.

Congratulations on your very successful dinner and discussion forum. You never know how the future will unfold. A recent article on the demise of the accoustic piano has been making the rounds in the free market blogs. We had a piano in our home, several of them over time. But no one does this any more. I doubt that electronic keyboards really give the same sound, but I also doubt that they must to be valid and important. Nonetheless, the fact remains that millions fewer of us are learning the piano. (I never actually did, but it was how I acquired much of what I do know about music.) So, just to say, Ayn Rand might fade away as a 20th century event. Of course, we are not greatly responsible for the future as long we enjoy our lives here and now and yours certainly seems richer for your fine company.

[Xray]

Objectivism is a set of ideas, and generation after generation discovers and reads Ayn Rand.

Objectivism will not die.

I think attempts (by orthodox Objectivists) to keep Objectivism closed is putting it on life support, and with no fresh impulses and knowledge "allowed in" which would make it necessary to discard certain premises (like e. g. "man is tabula rasa"), it will become museum-like pretty fast.

Orthodox Objectivists also tend to treat Rand's writings as 'sacred', and convey that she was never wrong on an issue.

Imo David Kelley's open system approach has far more potential. It leaves room for flexibility, without a constant pressure to prove Rand right on everything.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have the impression that, for whatever reasons, Kelley's open system-approach never really got off the ground.

But independent of any 'open vs. closed system' turf wars, people (without necessarily regarding themselves as Objectivists) have chosen elements from Rand's thoughts and integrated them into their own individual philosophy. And isn't that what individualism is about?