Help with Depression

[Xray]

I suggest reading the chapter on Death Anxiety in Nathaniel Branden’s book, Honoring the Self. You might find that helpful. He provides several sentence stems which might give you some valuable insight.

I found the book, but, and I don't mean to complain, I did not find the chapter at all insightful or helpful. It states the obvious without giving any helpful advice. Branden himself admits in the chapter his inability to deal with this, his automatic evasion. I like most of Branden's work, but I think this is a giant hole that everyone would just rather evade and build their theories around, and Branden seems to be no exception.

I haven't read N. Branden's book (can the chapter on Death Anxiety be accessed online?), but if he admits his inability to deal with this, he is at least being honest.

And frankly, how can we humans really deal with the inescapable fact of our annihilation?

And not only that, the annihilation of all living existence will eventually occur in the whole universe.

As for depression, there seems to be one aspect present in nearly all cases (as always, correct me if my layperson's perspective is wrong): the individual's subjective feeling of worthlessness.

Some extend this feeling to the lives of all others as well, in that they claim that life as such is senselees, not worth living.

On the philosophical level, this comes close to the position of nihilism.

Edited August 4, 2011 by Xray

[theandresanchez]

I'm crashing.

[Brant Gaede]

I'm crashing.

Maybe because you went off your meds?

--Brant

[Xray]

I'm crashing.

Maybe because you went off your meds?

I had the same thought, Brant.

Andre, please, get medical help!! Don't waste any more precious time!

You wrote yesterday:

Yea, okay, no. I'm now going to completely ignore anything anybody in the "mental health" industry ever tells me. I'll cure my depression myself.

You gave this thred the title "Help with depression from rational people".

You cannot cure this yourself, Andre. The rational advice is: please get medical help immediately!

Edited August 5, 2011 by Xray

[theandresanchez]

I'm crashing.

Maybe because you went off your meds?

I had the same thought, Brant.

No. I wasn't on the meds long enough to create a withdrawal crisis. I had a minor crisis before getting off the meds (which is something the doctor told me to do).

I don't have blind faith in anyone, not even doctors. They don't get a blank check.

I do not want to die. I am not in danger of suicide. That would require too much focused effort on my part.

[Brant Gaede]

I'm crashing.

Maybe because you went off your meds?

I had the same thought, Brant.

No. I wasn't on the meds long enough to create a withdrawal crisis. I had a minor crisis before getting off the meds (which is something the doctor told me to do).

I don't have blind faith in anyone, not even doctors. They don't get a blank check.

I do not want to die. I am not in danger of suicide. That would require too much focused effort on my part.

You need to find a good doctor to work with over time. Are there local support groups you can network with? They could be on the Internet locally.

--Brant

[theandresanchez]

You need to find a good doctor to work with over time. Are there local support groups you can network with? They could be on the Internet locally.

--Brant

I really wish things were that simple, that I could just go to a doctor and get better. I don't believe they are. If I were having problems with psychosis of some kind, I imagine their meds would help. I am not. I am simply unhappy and hopeless. Pills just make me feel more hopeless. When I get a surge of energy and optimism, I hit a brick wall and crash. The problem is that I don't know how to turn my life around and I have lost my youth trying to. I don't know what to do. I don't know how to find out what to do. That is all there is to it. I don't have some brain defect.

Unless you can get me some NZT.

Edited August 6, 2011 by Andre

[caroljane]

You need to find a good doctor to work with over time. Are there local support groups you can network with? They could be on the Internet locally.

--Brant

I really wish things were that simple, that I could just go to a doctor and get better. I don't believe they are. If I were having problems with psychosis of some kind, I imagine their meds would help. I am not. I am simply unhappy and hopeless. Pills just make me feel more hopeless. When I get a surge of energy and optimism, I hit a brick wall and crash. The problem is that I don't know how to turn my life around and I have lost my youth trying to. I don't know what to do. I don't know how to find out what to do. That is all there is to it. I don't have some brain defect.

Unless you can get me some NZT.

What is NZT?

Kat advised you to give your meds at least a month to work. Have you done that? There are many meds which might work if your present ones don't.

There are also many people who have truly lost their youth, and don't know what to do next, but are trying out things because they are not depressed. Depression is not a brain defect anymore than a broken leg is a bone defect. Overthinking, the vicious cycle of self-blame and rational thought, is the most exhausting side-effect of depression.

Get through the next hour, and then the next, and maintain medical contact.

[theandresanchez]

What is NZT?

It's a fictional drug.

Kat advised you to give your meds at least a month to work. Have you done that? There are many meds which might work if your present ones don't.

The doctor explicitly told me to stop.

[caroljane]

What is NZT?

It's a fictional drug.

Kat advised you to give your meds at least a month to work. Have you done that? There are many meds which might work if your present ones don't.

The doctor explicitly told me to stop.

Of course, if it was making you feel worse, he would tell you to stop. He knows you are feeling worse. What does he propose next?

[theandresanchez]

Of course, if it was making you feel worse, he would tell you to stop. He knows you are feeling worse. What does he propose next?

It was not making me feel worse. He reviewed my blood and brain tests which showed no abnormalities. He then proposed medication for Schizoaffective Disorder based on 15 minutes of conversation and a couple of extremely vague subjective questions. At which point, I lost the little trust I had in him. I'm not letting people like this play around with my brain randomly hoping that some drug works.

[Dennis Hardin]

The Depression Forums – A Depression and Mental Health Social Community Support Group

[Selene]

What is NZT?

It's a fictional drug.

NZT here

[theandresanchez]

What is NZT?

It's a fictional drug.

NZT here

After I posted that I was crashing, I cried a little, went for a walk in the sun to escape the cold, and then I started feeling calm. I have been feeling pretty calm ever since. I feel like I'm walking on a tight rope, but well, I'm not actually feeling bad right now. I watched the movie yesterday. I liked how it didn't end like it promised to.

[Brant Gaede]

What is NZT?

It's a fictional drug.

NZT here

After I posted that I was crashing, I cried a little, went for a walk in the sun to escape the cold, and then I started feeling calm. I have been feeling pretty calm ever since. I feel like I'm walking on a tight rope, but well, I'm not actually feeling bad right now. I watched the movie yesterday. I liked how it didn't end like it promised to.

You might benefit from a regular medical evaluation, not by a psychiatrist. Blood work, that sort of thing. You might also try radical changes in your diet, like going gluten free. I think that means grain free. I'm not sure it involves corn. You might even try avoiding milk and milk products. If none of these worked I'd try vegatarianism for a few months. It's almost unbelievable what they feed cattle, pigs, and chickens to ready them for slaughter.

--Brant

[Brant Gaede]

What is NZT?

It's a fictional drug.

NZT here

After I posted that I was crashing, I cried a little, went for a walk in the sun to escape the cold, and then I started feeling calm. I have been feeling pretty calm ever since. I feel like I'm walking on a tight rope, but well, I'm not actually feeling bad right now. I watched the movie yesterday. I liked how it didn't end like it promised to.

Andre, how're ya doin'?

--Brant

I want to know (fuck the world)

Edited September 3, 2011 by Brant Gaede

[theandresanchez]

Andre, how're ya doin'?

--Brant

I want to know (fuck the world)

Thanks for asking but I'm not sure how to answer. Better.

[Xray]

Andre, how're ya doin'?

--Brant

I want to know (fuck the world)

Thanks for asking but I'm not sure how to answer. Better.

That's good news, Andre. Nice to hear from you again.

[Guyau]

From webMD

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for Depression

Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) is an effective treatment for depression. At the heart of CBT is an assumption that a person's mood is directly related to his or her patterns of thought. Negative, dysfunctional thinking affects a person's mood, sense of self, behavior, and even physical state. The goal of cognitive behavioral therapy is to help a person learn to recognize negative patterns of thought, evaluate their validity, and replace them with healthier ways of thinking.

At the same time, therapists who practice CBT aim to help their patients change patterns of behavior that come from dysfunctional thinking. Negative thoughts and behavior predispose an individual to depression and make it nearly impossible to escape its downward spiral. When patterns of thought and behavior are changed, according to CBT practitioners, so is mood.

Anyone with mild or moderate depression can potentially benefit from cognitive behavioral therapy, even without taking medication. A number of studies have shown CBT to be at least as effective as antidepressants in treating mild and moderate depression. Studies also show that a combination of antidepressants and CBT can be effective in treating major depression.

CBT and REBT work. You simply need to find a trained, qualified therapist. Please don't let anyone discourage you from giving it a try.

Amen, Dennis. I know it works and I don 't think anyone here is discouraging Andre from trying it, nor from trying any prescribed medical treatments which are also proven to work, they work together.

A http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-20625639'>new study by Lancet shows CBT to have significant effectiveness among patients who have not responded to medications.

My own experience was in step with Carol's conclusion. I needed help once in my life from professionals. That was when I was 18. I was depressed and suicidal. My psychiatrist was from the school of Adler, as I recall. He gave me some medication. I'm sure that helped; it was as if it gave me a scaffold facilitating rebuilding. With me I'm pretty sure our conversations did not really amount to a talking cure. I still remember how serene it was in his office; his manner was a wonderful thing. Early on I was under his care at a private mental hospital for about three weeks. When I came into the hospital, I brought two books with me, my Bible and a novel a friend had given me for Christmas. (I had already become an atheist really; bringing my Bible was just old custom and grasping for anything that might help.) I was in the room where all the beds were, at mine, when my father returned. He had been talking to the doctor and told me they did not want me to bring my Bible into the hospital as some people go berserk when they see one. In the days that followed, the doc would come by and ask how I was doing with the novel. He would say, "you've got to finish that before you go home." I nearly did. I was reading carefully, and the meds rather dulled one at that time. I was definitely turned around to being emotionally normal as I left the hospital, and in a few more months, the instability would be gone entirely, gone for a lifetime that would have some very hard knocks. That novel was The Fountainhead, and that reading was my first exposure to Rand's literature or ideas.

[jts]

How is it possible for an Objectivist to be depressed?

[Selene]

How is it possible for an Objectivist to be depressed?

Jerry:

How is it possible for you to actually ask that question?

It is that type of intellectual condescension that makes me question your sincerity.

A...

[jts]

How is it possible for an Objectivist to be depressed?

Jerry:

How is it possible for you to actually ask that question?

I assume we are talking about good Objectivists, those who not only talk the talk but also walk the walk, those who live rationally in all aspects of their life.

I can understand how even a good Objectivist might be depressed momentarily as a result of some bad news or a temporary glich in lifestyle. But I don't understand how depression can be a normal, long term thing in a person who lives rationally in all aspects of life. If this is possible, then maybe Objectivism doesn't work as a philosophy for living life on this earth here and now.

[9thdoctor]

That novel was The Fountainhead, and that reading was my first exposure to Rand's literature or ideas.

That's a heckuva story. Did the doctor know about the book? Meaning, approve of it, particularly for someone in your state? I wonder if you'd brought something by Camus or Kafka whether he'd have told you to toss it.

[caroljane]

That novel was The Fountainhead, and that reading was my first exposure to Rand's literature or ideas.

That's a heckuva story. Did the doctor know about the book? Meaning, approve of it, particularly for someone in your state? I wonder if you'd brought something by Camus or Kafka whether he'd have told you to toss it.

My bet is he didn't, he was just monitoring Stephen's improving ability to concentrate.

[Guyau]

Dennis and Carol,

The doctor knew about the book and I think he mentioned that a movie had been made of it. I don't recall if he said whether he had read the book. He sure encouraged me with it. But that might have been partly due to the monitoring aspect Carol suggested.

Many years later, I had an Objectivist friend who was completing her PhD in psychology. I had been telling her about a book I had recently read and liked titled I Never Promised You a Rose Garden. She expressed some reservation about how realistic it was, and we got talking about what I think was called "spontaneous reemergence" and its unlikeliness. It meant something like coming out of a mental illness on one's own. (My depression did not involve psychosis as in Rose Garden.) I told my psychology friend the story of what had happened to me as a young man, being in the hospital, reading Fountainhead, and coming out for life like gangbusters. I said something like maybe this was one of those spontaneous cases. I remember her happy laughter and telling me "No."