Peikoff’s latest howler

[Rich Engle]

Thanks for weighing in, Michael.

And, dare I say, for what it is worth, I'm actually not hating on Ted Keer as much as usual. I guess there is always an upside when people do something as despicable as LP has done here, in that it brings out a good deal of unification, agreement on things. Humbling, in a good way. It makes us stronger, in important ways. It makes the little things little things. It makes us not the kinds of pissy little bitches that we despise--usually because we despise that behavior in our own selves. Oh, I do not think this (or anything else) will ever make a true "feel good" moment--because, for one subjective reason, I'm not a "quiche-eater," (not to attack quiche itself)...that would ruin it; we would be less without the feuding and the conflict, the diversity.

Sometimes, though, heinous is heinous. Poor Leonard. I think today's Special Word should be "Pathetic."

I have a lot on my plate right now, and I am sure y'all do too, but the sun just came up in FL (it has been record cold here the last few days) and it is time to roll.

I am very impressed, and proud to see the kind of responses on this topic. Always figured I was hanging out here for a reason. . .

It made me feel very good to see the way this has been, er. . ."handled." Heh. Special thanks to ND for informative videos. And WSS.

You guys got this one, right? I mean, I can do more but. . .

rde

Guitarist, Warrior Angel

Edited December 15, 2010 by Rich Engle

[bmacwilliam]

they could have a masculinized brain

Enlighten us with the meaning of a "masculinized brain" please.

Differences are found in several areas. Here is a brief overview with details.

Essentially, human brains will develop to the female norm without hormonal cascades.

However, is there a pre-surgical determination of whether the person has a "gender norm" brain that happens before surgery? A surgeon checks to see if a tumour exists before actually operating. They don't just take the person's word for it that they have a tumour - they actually check.

In transgender cases, do they measure the brain, or do they just take the person's word for it that there's the opposite gender trapped in there? Anyone see a problem with this?

Bob

[syrakusos]

Thanks for weighing in, Michael.

I like you, too, Rich; and I like Ted. I hate it when my friends fight. We should have a slumber party.

Elective surgery includes lasik. We do not consider dyeing your hair, wearing eyeglasses, hearing aids, hair weaves, liposuction, or Dr Scholls inserts as bionics or prosthetics. Right now, I am living almost halfway to the North Pole at the edge of an old glacier that carved out the five largest lakes in the world. I couldn't do it without "enhancements" unknown a mere million years ago -- such as layers of cotton skins and both secondary and tertiary "feet" made of animal hides and petroleum by-products. So, why not just have fur? Reversible fur?

We think only of making deficient people normal: glasses for 20/20 vision. I tried explaining that as a pilot, I need to see more than 20 feet across the room. 100/20 would make me feel better. Can't get it. All they would do was cut the bifocals a little lower so that i could see the Instrument Panel without tilting my head. See, that's a problem with medical ethics. Same with hearing. I noticed in a courtroom that the judge was wearing hearing aides. Then it occurred to me that there was nothing wrong with his hearing. Smart fellow....

The "howler" is that professional philosopher apparently has tunnel vision and all he sees is sex.

Try telling your doctor that you heard that some medications for mental deficiencies have been shown to boost IQ scores of normal people -- and you want some. You cannot get it. You could get medical marijuana easier.

This huge area of unexplored ignorance in biomedical ethics problems is to our century what erroneous economics was the 20th. We here, we objectivists, need to move past the Federal Reserve system and think about the world we live in now.

Edited December 15, 2010 by Michael E. Marotta

[Rich Engle]

Thanks for weighing in, Michael.

I like you, too, Rich; and I like Ted. I hate it when my friends fight. We should have a slumber party.

Elective surgery includes lasik. We do not consider dyeing your hair, wearing eyeglasses, hearing aids, hair weaves, liposuction, or Dr Scholls inserts as bionics or prosthetics. Right now, I am living almost halfway to the North Pole at the edge of an old glacier that carved out the five largest lakes in the world. I couldn't do it without "enhancements" unknown a mere million years ago -- such as layers of cotton skins and both secondary and tertiary "feet" made of animal hides and petroleum by-products. So, why not just have fur? Reversible fur?

We think only of making deficient people normal: glasses for 20/20 vision. I tried explaining that as a pilot, I need to see more than 20 feet across the room. 100/20 would make me feel better. Can't get it. All they would do was cut the bifocals a little lower so that i could see the Instrument Panel without tilting my head. See, that's a problem with medical ethics. Same with hearing. I noticed in a courtroom that the judge was wearing hearing aides. Then it occurred to me that there was nothing wrong with his hearing. Smart fellow....

The "howler" is that professional philosopher apparently has tunnel vision and all he sees is sex.

Try telling your doctor that you heard that some medications for mental deficiencies have been shown to boost IQ scores of normal people -- and you want some. You cannot get it. You could get medical marijuana easier.

This huge area of unexplored ignorance in biomedical ethics problems is to our century what erroneous economics was the 20th. We here, we objectivists, need to move past the Federal Reserve system and think about the world we live in now.

Heh. Yup.

rde

In spite of His Business, still considering a counter-response to this.

[9thdoctor]

Anyway, when "Wendy Carlos" went by, I knew immediately what that meant. So, she could hardly keep it secret. Fame is a factor many ways.

Sure, but if you look into it you’ll see that she considered (or was advised) to claim that she’d been Wendy all along, and used the name Walter just to counteract sexism. Like George Sand or George Eliot. Or Ayn Rand, for that matter.

[Jonathan]

As far as I am concerned, LP's thing, his response, is just bad, uninformed, callous, shit-for-theory. It makes you wonder what puts such hatred into a person's heart.

Maybe the hate comes from the fact that, despite technically being a male, Peikoff is what would be traditionally called "girly" or "sissy" (notice, for example, that later in his podcast he talks about enjoying watching Cake Boss, and you don't often hear him making references to traditionally masculine things like sports, hunting, power tools, etc., and I get the impression that he was quite submissive to Rand). Maybe he needs to believe that gender-identity is strictly defined by genitalia because a lot of other things about him are kind of womanly? To me, it would make sense that a male who wants to be perceived as a male, but who has a lot of feminine traits, tastes and interests, might be resentful of the idea that there can be more to the concept of gender than whether one has a penis or a vagina.

J

[Robert Campbell]

Has anyone noticed whether or not the Hsieh-Creature has weighed in on this one? I would think not--she is too much of a spineless pol to do anything, one way or another.

Rich,

Not a peep out of La Hsieh on this one.

She is still hoping against hope that if she stops criticizing Leonard Peikoff on her site and stops letting anyone else criticize Leonard Peikoff on her site, there will be a benefice at the Objectivist Academic Center one of these days.

There won't, of course. Not if Peikoff has anything to do with it.

Robert Campbell

[9thdoctor]

On a positive note, I doubt that there is anyone taking psychosexual advice from him or the Party Of Crab.

Yeah, well in the early 30’s hardly anyone was taking advice from the vagabond son of a carpenter with a virgin mother.

Peikoff is Jesus? Actually Peikoff who? Nobody knows who he is in England. Have we got that right?

It's called hyperbole. It might have made better sense if I likened him to St. Peter, but as jokes go, this one didn't spend much time in the polishing department. FWIW I say it's a good thing if nobody knows who he is in England, the fewer places the better. Alternately, I wouldn't mind if we did ship him over, the Brits have their share of loons, I bet he'll fit in nicely.

[Mike11]

Kimmler, allow me to explain my comment -

Peikoff is an insane, deluded idiot. Come on, we are talking about someone so f*cked he made O'Reilly seem fair and balanced.

....

You know I came close to feeding you. I had this whole thing written about teh gh3y and how Peikoff has a big case. Jonathon has the gist of it I think, Peikoff was a submissive sissy girl for Rand and still can't deal with it. Seriously, I think he has major D/s and gender issues repressed deep down.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Joel Mac Donald

[Rich Engle]

Hmmm. I hate to jump at the obvious, but this makes sense to my gut. He's always been rather, um, "delicate." And then the whole getting old/low-T thing probably isn't doing him any favors either.

rde

He's so cute when he gets angry.

[Kimmler]

On a positive note, I doubt that there is anyone taking psychosexual advice from him or the Party Of Crab.

Yeah, well in the early 30’s hardly anyone was taking advice from the vagabond son of a carpenter with a virgin mother.

Peikoff is Jesus? Actually Peikoff who? Nobody knows who he is in England. Have we got that right?

It's called hyperbole. It might have made better sense if I likened him to St. Peter, but as jokes go, this one didn't spend much time in the polishing department. FWIW I say it's a good thing if nobody knows who he is in England, the fewer places the better. Alternately, I wouldn't mind if we did ship him over, the Brits have their share of loons, I bet he'll fit in nicely.

Oh it was a joke! Oh...I get it now. Yes, the penny has dropped.

Sure, we will take Peikoff if you take the cast of Top Gear.

Though I wonder what Peikoff will make of our NHS? Which isn't socialism but he probably thinks it is.

[Reidy]

Looks like Peikoff has some influence.

[Selene]

So of course you can feel completely comfortable with a government employee having all your personal information and medical history under O'bamacare!

I feel sooo much better now.

[william.scherk]

Looks like Peikoff has some influence.

Notable inversion of the Peikovian dicta comes in Iran, where a thirty year old fatwa from Khomenei ushered in a world of legal and religiously-supported sex changes. You can be hanged for gay acts, but encouraged by the clergy state to surgically move yourself into Chador world.

I can only imagine the coercion that might operate against identified gay-ish men to adopt the flesh of the other gender.

Details in this BBC brief.

[studiodekadent]

This only validates my disdain for Peikoff.

The man is quite clearly demented.

Human gender and sexuality is quite clearly a far too complex matter to make such blanket declarations.

I don't understand transgenderism and I deny gender essentialism, but I won't dare assume I can understand people's subjective experiences of their selves better than they can. I will judge people by the content of their character; not their gender-sexuality-etc. meme complex.

[9thdoctor]

I just did the rounds of the other O’ist sites, not a peep about this atrocity.

It seems I didn't do the rounds with sufficient care.

http://forums.4aynrandfans.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=12624&view=findpost&p=110392

It's rather heartening to see Ortho's being so dismissive.

FYI for WSS, I don't think I'll be making a video, I just can't stand to listen to this crap again, and I'd have to hear it over and over to match up images etc.

[syrakusos]

It seems I didn't do the rounds with sufficient care.

[link to 4aynrandfans.com]

It's rather heartening to see Ortho's being so dismissive.

Being dismissive of what, exactly, Doctor? What I read was pretty typical of any discussion: people make pronouncements and no one reads to understand. Some posts were more insightful than others; most less. "I don't know anything about the subject, but let me tell you what I think."

It would be easy and convenient to blame the Board Moderator or the entirety of Objectivism, but, oddly, I believe that it is an Asperger's Thing. (As a disclaimer, I think that Hans Asperger was a closet Nazi, as were the US Army Intelligence Officers who interviewed him and found nothing wrong in turning unruly individualists into Boy Scouts, so they let him go.) But, given, that, if you understand and appreciate the "little professors" who grow up to be nerds shopping from the Think Geek Catalog, then you understand any Message Board about Objectivism. All of that is to explain why I point to Computer Power and Human Reason: From Judgment To Calculation (San Francisco: W. H. Freeman, 1976), by Joseph Weizenbabum. Weizenbaum is credited with ELIZA, the computer program that mimicked human conversation. (He wrings his hands over that, as well as what follows.) Weizenbaum likened hackers to gamblers as portrayed by Dostoevsky. They both are driven by superstitions masquerading as mathematics. He says in particular, that given an assignment to support a research project with a computer program, the hacker starts writing code without feeling any need to read the substantive literature of the field.

It's the "little professor" syndrome in action. Knowing that A is A, he can deduce any truth he needs.

[9thdoctor]

Being dismissive of what, exactly, Doctor?

Here’s quotes from the 3rd, 4th, and 5th posts:

What value do you derive from listening to Dr. Peikoff's podcasts

his recent habits of "deducing" conclusions (mainly about politics) from philosophy with no regard to reality, facts, or context does throw into suspicion any advice he would offer in these podcasts

This is not the Peikoff I knew as the author of OPAR.

I call that dismissive, both of Peikoff and of his position on this subject. There may have been someone who was more supportive, I’m not going to reread the whole thing to check. The tenor of the conversation was certainly dismissive, though probably not as openly mocking as here on OL.

[George H. Smith]

Back in the 1970s a rumor was afoot in West Coast circles to the effect that Rand had pressured LP to take some kind of voice lessons in order to mitigate his -- How shall I put this delicately? -- unmanly manner of speaking. I believe Roy Childs was the source of this rumor; and though Roy was well-connected and had lots of accurate details about the Split before they became widely known, I have never found any substantiation for this particular story.

Ghs

[9thdoctor]

Back in the 1970s a rumor was afoot in West Coast circles to the effect that Rand had pressured LP to take some kind of voice lessons in order to mitigate his -- How shall I put this delicately? -- unmanly manner of speaking.

Talk about the pot and the kettle! But this called to mind a great moment when her voice was just right, it’s here, zap ahead to 50 minutes in, I’m thinking particularly of when she says “you haven’t heard anysing yet”.

Edited December 18, 2010 by Ninth Doctor

[Brant Gaede]

Back in the 1970s a rumor was afoot in West Coast circles to the effect that Rand had pressured LP to take some kind of voice lessons in order to mitigate his -- How shall I put this delicately? -- unmanly manner of speaking.

Talk about the pot and the kettle! But this called to mind a great moment when her voice was just right, it’s here, zap ahead to 50 minutes in, I’m thinking particularly of when she says “you haven’t heard anysing yet”.

That was the 2nd FHF with Ayn Rand I attended. I went for maybe 5 consecutive years. The last time I didn't have a ticket but I went anyway (from northern NJ) and listened to it on my station wagon radio. They didn't broadcast the Q n A. That was the first time the FHF was at its new, then bigger, location. I assume it was bigger. This Apollo talk sounds to me like I was there yesterday. I learned much latter that Rand frequently went up there by bus. Once there was a threatened strike and her entourage wondered if there was how they might get back to NYC. Someone suggested hitch-hiking and Rand said she could show some leg. That would be like that famous scene in "It Happened One Night."

--Brant

[william.scherk]

FYI for WSS, I don't think I'll be making a video, I just can't stand to listen to this crap again, and I'd have to hear it over and over to match up images etc.

All right. I will work on one . . .

[Rich Engle]

Back in the 1970s a rumor was afoot in West Coast circles to the effect that Rand had pressured LP to take some kind of voice lessons in order to mitigate his -- How shall I put this delicately? -- unmanly manner of speaking.

Talk about the pot and the kettle! But this called to mind a great moment when her voice was just right, it's here, zap ahead to 50 minutes in, I'm thinking particularly of when she says "you haven't heard anysing yet".

That was the 2nd FHF with Ayn Rand I attended. I went for maybe 5 consecutive years. The last time I didn't have a ticket but I went anyway (from northern NJ) and listened to it on my station wagon radio. They didn't broadcast the Q n A. That was the first time the FHF was at its new, then bigger, location. I assume it was bigger. This Apollo talk sounds to me like I was there yesterday. I learned much latter that Rand frequently went up there by bus. Once there was a threatened strike and her entourage wondered if there was how they might get back to NYC. Someone suggested hitch-hiking and Rand said she could show some leg. That would be like that famous scene in "It Happened One Night."

--Brant

OMG, can you imagine? "C'mon, Lil' Missy! Hop on into the cab. . .I'm deadheadin' it to Omaha and am pawerful sore fer company (edit in extended meth snorting scene)."

[Brant Gaede]

Back in the 1970s a rumor was afoot in West Coast circles to the effect that Rand had pressured LP to take some kind of voice lessons in order to mitigate his -- How shall I put this delicately? -- unmanly manner of speaking.

Talk about the pot and the kettle! But this called to mind a great moment when her voice was just right, it's here, zap ahead to 50 minutes in, I'm thinking particularly of when she says "you haven't heard anysing yet".

That was the 2nd FHF with Ayn Rand I attended. I went for maybe 5 consecutive years. The last time I didn't have a ticket but I went anyway (from northern NJ) and listened to it on my station wagon radio. They didn't broadcast the Q n A. That was the first time the FHF was at its new, then bigger, location. I assume it was bigger. This Apollo talk sounds to me like I was there yesterday. I learned much latter that Rand frequently went up there by bus. Once there was a threatened strike and her entourage wondered if there was how they might get back to NYC. Someone suggested hitch-hiking and Rand said she could show some leg. That would be like that famous scene in "It Happened One Night."

--Brant

OMG, can you imagine? "C'mon, Lil' Missy! Hop on into the cab. . .I'm deadheadin' it to Omaha and am pawerful sore fer company (edit in extended meth snorting scene)."

Only if Clark Gable were driving.

--Brant

[Backlighting]

Back in the 1970s a rumor was afoot in West Coast circles to the effect that Rand had pressured LP to take some kind of voice lessons in order to mitigate his -- How shall I put this delicately? -- unmanly manner of speaking.

Talk about the pot and the kettle! But this called to mind a great moment when her voice was just right, it’s here, zap ahead to 50 minutes in, I’m thinking particularly of when she says “you haven’t heard anysing yet”.

Back in the early 70's I drove up to Boston from NYC to hear AR speak at the FHF.

During the Q & A someone asked Rand to explain more clearly what she meant in a particular passage from Atlas Shrugged. Ayn answered "If you don't understand my writing, you certainly won't understand my speaking" The place cracked up.