Peikoff’s latest howler

[Rich Engle]

As for the wretched Peikoff, he's put himself a few more miles beneath contempt with this latest absurd position. (Which, I am sorry to say, is shared by Thomas Szasz, a man of at least ten times sounder intellect. I'll cut Szasz a break, for he doesn't fling Holocaust analogies. But not Lenny the Leech.)

Any of the half-dozen transsexual (pre- and post-op) and intersexed (usually no-op) people I've known personally is twice the human being Peikoff is, as to nobility of spirit and basic decency. It is every bit as complex, fascinating, tragic, and transcendable a condition as the commenters here have said. It does not involve the slightest particle of "whim."

Peikoff gets attention in his dotage for only one reason: his legal choke-hold on Rand's works. Don't give it to him!

We might as well talk about making little movies rather than this. "Whim-worshiping..." another phrase I am starting to wish had never come to pass. I understand it when Rand uses it (usually), but like most of the others, it gets the heck flogged out of it by these knuckleheads. This is a total cop out--his reply is totally reprehensible, callous, and irresponsible. At this point anyone that asks him questions pretty much get what they deserve. He is not even a good curmudgeon.

But I'll tell y'all something--this kind of shit (and that is what it is) is not going to fly. It makes me want to get hold of just the person I have in mind to dispense with his comments. I might just do that--except all that kind of thing gets censored. Leonard doesn't have the balls to work on someone else's turf, either. And I won't even take the "he's old/give him a break" thing--not as long as he is still broadcasting.

I wonder what NB has to say about this one? I'd imagine it is not even worth his while.

Better yet--has anyone asked Barbara?

rde

Edited December 14, 2010 by Rich Engle

[Brant Gaede]

But I'll tell y'all something--this kind of shit (and that is what it is) is not going to fly. It makes me want to get hold of just the person I have in mind to dispense with his comments. I might just do that--except all that kind of thing gets censored.

Now, what do you mean by this?

--Brant

Peikoff is self refuting

[PDS]

I don't know enough about trans-gender issues to know whether what Peikoff is trying to say has any merit. His willingness to compare a doctor operating on patients who voluntarily undergo surgery with a Nazi camp doctor is the pertinent point, i.e., basically anybody who disagrees with him is a beast. What this says about Peikoff personally is far less interesting than what it says about the Objectivist Movement as a whole--assuming there still is such a thing. Peikoff the Cranky Old Man is basically pissing on good people who have spent their lives trying to advance Objectivism (think of an honest hard-liner like Dr. Darryl Wright here), and that is the shame.

As for NB, well, he does seem rather quiet about these things, doesn't he? I do wonder why.

[kiaer.ts]

even if fake opposite-sex genitals are then installed.

I have no interest in disabusing you of such simplistic notions. If you want an opinion based on the facts of what can be done with such operations, investigate the matter yourself.

[Rich Engle]

But I'll tell y'all something--this kind of shit (and that is what it is) is not going to fly. It makes me want to get hold of just the person I have in mind to dispense with his comments. I might just do that--except all that kind of thing gets censored.

Now, what do you mean by this?

--Brant

Peikoff is self refuting

I just mean that I know someone who could offer him one hell of a rebuttal--someone who could really take him apart word by word. But you are right, he is self-refuting. I played that podcast again for my wife (and just to be sure I heard what I heard) and that is just sickeningly ignorant.

[syrakusos]

What about Peikoff's example of the person who says "In my soul, I know that I am a fingerless being, not someone who has fingers," and wants to have his fingers amputated for that reason? Would a very strong feeling that one was born in the wrong body, a body with fingers, justify cutting off one's fingers? Could a surgeon feel good about undertaking that chore, so long as he had had a thoroughgoing discussion about it with the person wanting to be amputated?

Fixating on gender change is for the sexually repressed. They would be sexuality oppressors. The limits of scientific advance have not been fathomed.

Even before I actually could swim, I had no fear of the bottom of the pool. I can hold my breath for a minute anytime anyplace anydepth. What I want is gills.

Of course, a reversible operation would allow me to go somewhere else, later.

It would be handy to have an organ that took in solar energy, something adapted from plants and based on photosynthesis, perhaps.

Edited December 14, 2010 by Michael E. Marotta

[bmacwilliam]

they could have a masculinized brain

Enlighten us with the meaning of a "masculinized brain" please. Is that the type of brain that doesn't ask for directions, or has some burning need to pee standing up, or what?

Bob

[william.scherk]

they could have a masculinized brain

Enlighten us with the meaning of a "masculinized brain" please.

Differences are found in several areas. Here is a brief overview with details.

Essentially, human brains will develop to the female norm without hormonal cascades.

[9thdoctor]

I just did the rounds of the other O’ist sites, not a peep about this atrocity. A few possible explanations:

1. No one listens to Peikoff podcasts, except your humble servant. However the GZ Mosque one was widely discussed, Comrade Sonia posted about it hours before I alerted OLers. BTW, his podcasts really aren’t worth following, it’s just a weird Monday thing for me.

2. Ortho’s have an unwritten rule not to discuss Peikoff’s more unbelievable statements. What good can come of it, excommunication?

3. There’s widespread agreement with Peikoff among the many-many people who have heard this latest podcast.

I vote for number 2.

[sjw]

I just did the rounds of the other O’ist sites, not a peep about this atrocity. A few possible explanations:

1. No one listens to Peikoff podcasts, except your humble servant. However the GZ Mosque one was widely discussed, Comrade Sonia posted about it hours before I alerted OLers. BTW, his podcasts really aren’t worth following, it’s just a weird Monday thing for me.

2. Ortho’s have an unwritten rule not to discuss Peikoff’s more unbelievable statements. What good can come of it, excommunication?

3. There’s widespread agreement with Peikoff among the many-many people who have heard this latest podcast.

I vote for number 2.

4. Nobody cares about a remark he made that will have zero consequence except to those who might consider it when weighing an important decision.

Shayne

[Brant Gaede]

I just did the rounds of the other O'ist sites . . . .

What a strange way to spend one's time.

--Brant

[kiaer.ts]

they could have a masculinized brain

Enlighten us with the meaning of a "masculinized brain" please.

Differences are found in several areas. Here is a brief overview with details.

Essentially, human brains will develop to the female norm without hormonal cascades.

William has given the correct answer, but yes, female dogs treated with androgens will lift rather than squat. (I don't know about asking for directions.) It is also interesting that some heterosexual women who have considered themselves gay men in women's bodies and have had a sex change reassignment to male have changed orientation and become attracted to women after androgen treatment.

[9thdoctor]

I just did the rounds of the other O'ist sites . . . .

What a strange way to spend one's time.

--Brant

It only takes a couple minutes to check for new threads on objectivismonline.net, forums.4aynrandfans.com, SLOP and RoR. Am I missing any? Oh yeah, poodle poop, ick. You should talk, you post more than I do.

[Starbuckle]

For the benefit of anyone considering "sex reassignment surgery" (SRS) and who happens to surf into this page, here are a couple links to articles about post-SRS regrets.

"What if you 'succeed' in completing a TS transition, but did it for the wrong reasons?"

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html

"When sex-change is a mistake: Some transsexuals suffer bitter regrets."

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/when-sexchange-is-a-mistake-some-transsexuals-suffer-bitter-regrets-sarah-lonsdale-reports-1512822.html

[9thdoctor]

"What if you 'succeed' in completing a TS transition, but did it for the wrong reasons?"

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html

"In the large majority of cases, transsexual (TS) transitions work out well over the long-term, as we've seen in the many stories documented in..."

If everyone turned out 100% happy it would be a freaking miracle. Here's Wendy Carlos' page on the subject:

http://www.wendycarlos.com/pruri.html

Obviously she regrets ever going public about it.

[Brant Gaede]

But your posts, ND, have more literal mass.

--Brant

jab, jab

[Rich Engle]

You can analyze this anyway you wish, but I would think it would be realistic to talk to informed, educated individuals that have some experience in this area; perhaps personal experience.

As far as I am concerned, LP's thing, his response, is just bad, uninformed, callous, shit-for-theory. It makes you wonder what puts such hatred into a person's heart. And that is really what is happening. Not even good, straight hate. More like not even having enough to give an informed opinion. More like a very old, tired man that is too worn out to research and then manage to write (or in this case, say) something even close to a decent treatment.

It is better to hear his voice. It belies. Oh, it is cornered-rat. Or, maybe worse, the pure showing that lack-of-understanding, lack of compassion shows, via action. His tone enough gives you the vibe, if you have the ears to hear it.

So, he is getting, very much, what he deserves. I think the resting on the accolades has finally gotten to the point where it is starting a savage burn on him. And for that, he deserves. Mostly, what I see is arrogance. And arrogance usually comes from stubborn. And stubborn comes from being either very contrary, or very decrepit, or both.

Either way, he is sticking out there like a real loser. His kung fu is very weak.

rde

Edited December 15, 2010 by Rich Engle

[kiaer.ts]

For the benefit of anyone considering "sex reassignment surgery" (SRS) and who happens to surf into this page, here are a couple links to articles about post-SRS regrets.

"What if you 'succeed' in completing a TS transition, but did it for the wrong reasons?"

http://ai.eecs.umich...TS/Warning.html

"When sex-change is a mistake: Some transsexuals suffer bitter regrets."

http://www.independe...ts-1512822.html

Struck a nerve?

Looks like someone's been dreaming of the vagina dentata.

In addition to leaving out http://www.godhatesfags.com/, you also forgot to mention South Park's cautionary Mr. Garrison's Fancy New Vagina

Where is Rich Engle when you need him?

Edited December 15, 2010 by Ted Keer

[9thdoctor]

So, he is getting, very much, what he deserves. I think the resting on the accolades has finally gotten to the point where it is starting a savage burn on him.

Accolades? What accolades? He's been resting on AR's bank account and royalties. Or do you count the brown nosing from sycophants?

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Differences are found in several areas. Here is a brief overview with details.

William,

You might be interested to know that professional copywriters tailor their approaches depending on whether they are speaking to a male or female audience. Not just the obvious differences reflecting the different social roles. The entire approach and message.

For instance, traditional copywriting wisdom states that males are competitive while females are relationship-oriented. Also males are impressed with facts while females are impressed with stories. And so on. Many ads for the same product have entirely different texts in men's magazines as opposed to women's.

Copywriters have verified these observations by split-testing ads in different markets over decades.

These are general trends, not anything written in stone. But when the money is consistently better with one approach over the other for the different sexes, it's pretty reasonable to presume that this reflects a physical difference in the brains.

Michael

[Selene]

Differences are found in several areas. Here is a brief overview with details.

William,

You might be interested to know that professional copywriters tailor their approaches depending on whether they are speaking to a male or female audience. Not just the obvious differences reflecting the different social roles. The entire approach and message.

For instance, traditional copywriting wisdom states that males are competitive while females are relationship-oriented. Also males are impressed with facts while females are impressed with stories. And so on. Many ads for the same product have entirely different texts in men's magazines as opposed to women's.

Copywriters have verified these observations by split-testing ads in different markets over decades.

These are general trends, not anything written in stone. But when the money is consistently better with one approach over the other for the different sexes, it's pretty reasonable to presume that this reflects a physical difference in the brains.

Michael

Michael:

It is also true in political copy and in the semantic we use in divorce mediations. I specifically induce the male to start his sentences with "I feel..." or "This or that makes me feel x or y," Makes a huge difference in reducing the stress walls that exist.

Adam

[Brant Gaede]

So, he is getting, very much, what he deserves. I think the resting on the accolades has finally gotten to the point where it is starting a savage burn on him.

Accolades? What accolades? He's been resting on AR's bank account and royalties. Or do you count the brown nosing from sycophants?

In 2010, it has to be the latter. I mean, the former. I mean, both?

--Brant

confused

[Kimmler]

On a positive note, I doubt that there is anyone taking psychosexual advice from him or the Party Of Crab.

Yeah, well in the early 30’s hardly anyone was taking advice from the vagabond son of a carpenter with a virgin mother.

Peikoff is Jesus? Actually Peikoff who? Nobody knows who he is in England. Have we got that right?

Wow.

Just, wow.

Oh come on, talk about ambiguity! Are you wowing Peikoff’s statement, or the reaction it’s getting? I gather there's someone else on this thread already defending him.

[Rich Engle]

Where is Rich Engle when you need him?

Oh, I am here. This one is so filled with rot that it makes even me wait for better timing. But you see, when you have someone like this eclipsing their self, being THAT MUCH OF A FUCK-TARD, there is very little that can be added to the fire--you wait and hope for self-combustion (urban myth though that may be).

And, I have been a little preoccupied. My music director and close friend had a heart attack in my house Sat. night, which for starters put me up as first string quarterback for the performances. He is scheduled for open heart surgery ASAP. That was yesterday, which got completed by having to go salvage one of my other closest friends, a many-time decorated Viet Nam vet who (along with his dog) got mowed over on the Interstate by some retard spinning in circles at 80mph. After he hit my friend, he was whacked out enough that he squared off facing the wrong way and almost went at him again. This was all while said friend was traveling back down here to go to the Cleveland Clinic for cancer treatment. It is hospital week down here in Florida, and it has made me full of uncharitable thoughts about Leonard--thoughts about him held down in restraints over a bedpan, with a tranny nurse who just got done listening to his podcast standing over him like Kathy Bates did in "Misery." Very, very un-Unitarian thoughts I was having.

He won't go out in a ball of fire. He will go out drooling, wearing adult diapers. Maybe even alone he would go, were it not for all the vultures circling over the estate.

As to accolades, perhaps I should have said "laurels," and even then would be being overly-gracious. Let's just say I have enough faith in the universe. Yes, that dirty word "faith." Or, if you wish, call it confidence in how Law of Attraction works.

I am weak enough that I have no desire to pray for him--I can get a better exchange rate using that elsewhere. He is a sick fuck.

Has anyone noticed whether or not the Hsieh-Creature has weighed in on this one? I would think not--she is too much of a spineless pol to do anything, one way or another.

rde

Edited December 15, 2010 by Rich Engle

[syrakusos]

Dr. Peikoff did not include SRS as an element in a wider discussion of how to decide issues in bioethics. That is where this belongs. I see that, here, too, posters are still fixated on sex and Leonard Peikoff's presumptive social status among those who admire the works of Ayn Rand. I am amused and disappointed that no one saw the wider issues. I took it to the event horizon with species-realignment. It was not a reductio ad absurdum. Earlier, I deleted an attempted post about my own surgery to remove a cancerous organ. I went for the least effective option because it was no more or less successful than the most radical. We have learned a lot over the past 50 years. Other kinds of cancers had in the past been treated with radical surgery that only traumatized the patient and did little for the final outcome.

Today, bioethics and medical ethics are all the rage, but the people who teach the courses are the same ones who studied Roarty and Feyerabend. So, at best, you get a laundry list of ways to think about a problem -- deontological, absolutist, formalist, relativist, feminist, et ceteraist -- but no discussion of objective standards based on objective needs for personal happiness. Do you want to spend the rest of your life as a vegetable hooked to tubes? If I am a vegetable, why would I care? So, there must be something else to consider? Do I want my wife to deal with that? Oh.... Well, values. What are they? Why do people need them?

Anyway, Dr. Peikoff's oversight being as it may, I see that the intellectual waters here are not much deeper.

For the benefit of anyone considering "sex reassignment surgery" (SRS) and who happens to surf into this page, here are a couple links to articles about post-SRS regrets.

http://ai.eecs.umich...TS/Warning.html

Struck a nerve?

Looks like someone's been dreaming of the vagina dentata.

In addition to leaving out www.godhatesfags.com ... you also forgot to mention South Park's cautionary...

Actually, Lynn Conway is a "... Computer Scientist, Electrical Engineer, Inventor, Research Manager, Engineering Educator" and MtF TS. If you actually read the URL, you know that it points to the personal pages of Conway at the University of Michigan, Electrical Engineering and Computer Science department's laboratory for Artificial Intelligence. She says that she lived for 31 years (1968 to 1999) in her role until she was outed. So, these essays are a broad spectrum of considerations, reflections, facts and opinions. The article cited (about reasons and motives) was only what a competent psychologist would cover as part of the clinical process. Professor Conway's pages on this topic are authoritative.

[Here's Wendy Carlos' page on the subject... Obviously she regrets ever going public about it.

Wendy was already famous as Walter for "Switched on Bach." I discovered her change when we watched Brainstorm in the theater. We always watch the credits. Actors are nice and all, but it takes more to make a movie. Durk and Sandy were technical advisors for that movie, for instance; so sometimes you get to see the work of someone you know. Anyway, when "Wendy Carlos" went by, I knew immediately what that meant. So, she could hardly keep it secret. Fame is a factor many ways.

Edited December 15, 2010 by Michael E. Marotta