Is J. Neil Schulman justified (logically) in believing in God?

[George H. Smith]

Ask him who I can call to get the money I still need to set a start date for Alongside Night.

God said that you can call him, if you can figure out his unlisted number. Then he laughed and said, "I was only joking. Tell Neil that he should wander aimlessly in the Sinai desert for 30 days. On the 30th day at exactly 1 p.m., all the money he needs will fall from the skies like manna from heaven."

Ghs

My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken me?

You are not supposed to say this until you get crucified. By this I mean actually nailed to a cross. The comments of your critics don't count.

Ghs

[9thdoctor]

Tell Neil that he should wander aimlessly in the Sinai desert for 30 days. On the 30th day at exactly 1 p.m., all the money he needs will fall from the skies like manna from heaven."

I thought that kind of thing took 40 days and nights. Are you sure you heard right?

God got pissed when I asked him about the winning lottery number. He doesn't like people hitting him up for personal favors. He added that you would have won the Powerball if not for your inappropriate request. But now you won't win anything, ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1Ucto7HKKA

That explains what happened to Tevye.

As for your other question, God said that nothing is "heavy" for him; the concept is not applicable. He also seemed pissed-off by your mentioning this old canard, and though he didn't mention any specific retribution for this impertinence, God did want me to warn you not to venture outside for the next week.

Then he can't make such a weight? Some omnipotent being he is...

[william.scherk]

I have yet to find in any of my readings or discussions anyone else who claims that God entered his body for eight hours and conflated our personal identities, shared multi-dimensional cognition including the ability to look at other people's past and "central motivating factor" future; and uploaded to me a database of information which ended up unfolding over the subsequent years.

I haven’t been posting on this thread because I feel I should read the linked interview first, so I don’t mean to be rude just popping in and asking a couple basic questions. First, in allowing you to learn about the future, did God give you some winning Powerball numbers? Why not? That’s the database field I’d really like to have uploaded when it happens to me. Whatever the supernatural voice tells me to do, I’m game so long as it’s accompanied by winning lottery numbers. Hear that, Mephistopheles?

Second, where you on drugs? LSD or mushrooms, particularly? Had you used them before, and maybe had a flashback?

You can read Neil's discussion of his experience (one of several tellings, one of several experiences) in Chapter Six: Mind Meld.

I think it is accurate to say that Neil was physically and mentally stressed around the time of the Mind Meld. In the passage below he gives the most expansive version of events.

Beyond the obvious priming for the event (for which you will need to read the whole account), I am struck by Neil's interpretive options. It seems like he saw only two choices: I met god or I am crazy. Although he asserts that Occam's razor is no use to anyone in interpreting experience, I figure the razor cuts cleanly.

Considering the unusual mental state he found himself in -- paranoid, dehydrated, sleepless -- it seems likely to an outsider like me that the one state led to the other, and no spirit beings were actually involved.

Your mileage may vary.

Going back five months before that, I started a diet. I had put on weight, probably as a consequence of the unhappiness of going through a divorce. I put on weight and I started a severe diet, and it was a diet which had worked for me before in my life very, very effectively. A diet of reduced calories, usually under 900 calories a day, but also restricting carbohydrates as well to under maybe 30 or 40 grams a day. In addition to which I was walking, exercising.

So the combination of restricted calories, restricted carbohydrates, and exercise put me into the state which the Atkins Diet and the Atkins diet books and Dr. Atkins talk about, which is you go into a state of ketosis.

Within a couple days before February 18, 1997, which was a Tuesday, I have been in the hospital emergency room because I feel myself fainting. I feel my heartbeat is irregular. I feel in serious danger. And so I go into the Emergency Room and what do they do? They say you’re dehydrated and they rehydrate me by putting an intravenous saline drip into me to get me back up to rehydration.

This happened twice, at least once before the 18th and I’m not sure exactly which day but it probably would have been the Saturday before. I think it happens within a day or two after the event, on around the 19th or something like that.

So two times during this period, I am in such ketosis of blood poisoning from the excess of ketones in my blood caused from five months of severe diet and exercise and just before and just after that I am dehydrated in ketosis and breathing shallowly.

J. NEIL SCHULMAN: But in essence the precondition for what appears to happen to me appears to have a physiological component to it and it is described in the Bible and I unwittingly, simply by trying to take off weight, have put myself in the same situation as if I’d gone out to the desert to fight the devil.

Fasting puts you into ketosis. Apparently the ketones have some toxic effect on the brain, which enables something to happen.

This is not a drug experience. We’re not talking about taking an artificially engineered substance, or even a natural plant substance, into the body, to produce some sort of effect. We’re not talking about my taking Peyote or Marijuana or LSD or anything like this. This is something, which is in the body’s mechanism, itself, which can be triggered by a specific technique, and that technique is denial of food. And something happens in the brain.

Now, on the Monday before, when I go to the Karl Hess Club, suddenly it occurs to me I have done things over the previous few days. I have, in essence, sent out information to various different people. I have met during that previous week with detectives at the L.A.P.D. and presented my theory to them. I have presented it to O.J.’s attorneys. And that night it occurs to me, if this has gotten to Ron Shipp, if this information that I am presenting a theory that Ron Shipp was involved in these murders and framing O.J., I could be in physical danger.

BRAD LINAWEAVER: I remember you from that period and I remember I’ve never seen you more paranoid.

J. NEIL SCHULMAN: Right, because I suddenly thought, “what have I done to myself? I’ve exposed myself, I’ve exposed my family here, and I need to take immediate action to batten down the hatches before because if I am vulnerable I wouldn’t know about it.” In essence I go to high alert.

That night I went to my bank, I withdrew cash, got into my car and started wondering where should I put myself for the next few days, while I’m making further contacts? Who can I go to who I wouldn’t necessarily be traced to, if I were to go there as a safe house? Should I drive to Jean, Nevada, and stay in one of those $18 a night hotel rooms, which I could easily afford to do? Is there some friend who could be useful to me?

What I essentially decided to do that night was drive out to Randy Herrst’s house and ask him for help. I drove out late at night to Randy’s. He came down with me, and we basically sat in my car, and I laid out all of this to him. And I said, “Look, am I just being paranoid or is there a real possibility that I’m in danger here?”

He said, “Neil, the point is that you have no way of knowing, and so, yes, you were right to take protective steps. Now let’s figure out what we’re going to do, to resolve this quickly, in such a way that you don’t have to go into hiding if somebody really is pissed off with you and is going to take some action.”

So around 10 o’clock in the morning of February 18th I’ve been up all night talking with Randy and strategizing this. So now in addition to the physiological condition of ketosis and dehydration, which I’ve been experiencing, I’ve now gone without a night’s sleep.

And we go have the meeting with this attorney in Beverly Hills. He says, “Well, look, I know another attorney who has a direct contact with Gil Garcetti at the Los Angeles County District Attorney’s office. Let’s present your material to him.”

And so we make an appointment for me to go back to his office later that day and meet with him again.

Now, having had this first meeting with Randy and this attorney, in the morning of February 18th, I need to get some sleep. Randy thinks it’s a good idea if I not go to sleep unprotected. That I not go to sleep and simply be alone.

BRAD LINAWEAVER: You mean have somebody on guard?

J. NEIL SCHULMAN: Have somebody on guard. This is Randy’s suggestion. Randy is acting in essence as my bodyguard at this point. But Randy also has gone a night without sleep and he needs to go home and sleep as well, before this meeting, and so we called up another friend of ours, Dafydd ab Hugh, and I said, “Dafydd can you come over to my place?” and I explained the situation in brief. I said, “There’s some potential for danger. I don’t know exactly how to calculate it. It may be a small potential. It may be a large potential. But we don’t know. Could you just come over to my place and just sort of watch my back while I get some sleep?”

And Dafydd said, “Yes,” and he came over.

Dafydd gets there around 11:30 or 11:45 in the morning. And Randy says, “Okay, I’m going to go home and get some sleep and I’ll meet you later today, and we’ll go over to the attorney’s office again.”

So Dafydd is out in the living room, and I say, “Okay, I’m going to lie down.” And I go into my bedroom, and I close the door to lie down and get some sleep before the meeting.

And I lay down on my bed, and about ten seconds later — almost immediately — something has happened and I sit up in bed.

The first impression I’m having is that I have just traveled a long way, and I’ve just arrived.

And I’m looking around and I’m thinking, “Where am I? What’s going on?”

Remember, all of this is from my internal perspective.

Okay. I am sitting up and saying, “Huh! Now I’m here. I’ve just arrived.” But I wonder what’s going on.

And suddenly I sit up, stand up, and I remember that I am God.

I’m realizing as this is coming along, as my mind is sifting through all the new stuff, that J. Neil Schulman is a fictional persona, which I have created my entire life, because up until that moment I was hiding from myself the fact that I was God.

This is what is going through my mind while this is happening.

Now. One can say that I’m going through a psychotic episode at this point. Certainly the physiological conditions for a psychotic episode — ketosis, dehydration, lack of sleep — all of these various things can add up and say that I’m having a break with reality.

But the problem is that I’m not experiencing it as a break with reality.

[George H. Smith]

Tell Neil that he should wander aimlessly in the Sinai desert for 30 days. On the 30th day at exactly 1 p.m., all the money he needs will fall from the skies like manna from heaven."

I thought that kind of thing took 40 days and nights. Are you sure you heard right?

According to the original plan, the money wouldn't have fallen from the sky until the 40th day at 1 p.m. God wanted to see if Neil would wait around for another 10 days. This was supposed to be a test, but now that the secret is out, Neil may have to wait 50 days. In any case, Neil needs to keep wandering around the desert until something happens. If he is sufficiently pious during his desert sojourn, God will rain large bills down upon him. If not, Neil will still get the money, but it will all come in pennies.

As for your other question, God said that nothing is "heavy" for him; the concept is not applicable. He also seemed pissed-off by your mentioning this old canard, and though he didn't mention any specific retribution for this impertinence, God did want me to warn you not to venture outside for the next week.

Then he can't make such a weight? Some omnipotent being he is...

God now says that you should not venture outside for a month, not just a week. He asked if you would like to shoot for two months.

Ghs

[J Neil Schulman]

Ask him who I can call to get the money I still need to set a start date for Alongside Night.

God said that you can call him, if you can figure out his unlisted number. Then he laughed and said, "I was only joking. Tell Neil that he should wander aimlessly in the Sinai desert for 30 days. On the 30th day at exactly 1 p.m., all the money he needs will fall from the skies like manna from heaven."

Ghs

My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken me?

You are not supposed to say this until you get crucified. By this I mean actually nailed to a cross. The comments of your critics don't count.

Ghs

I got stoned in high school. No, I don't mean wasted; I mean an entire shop class coming out onto the high school lawn and throwing rocks at me. I still feel twinges in one of my leg calves on damp days.

I think this counts.

[J Neil Schulman]

Tell Neil that he should wander aimlessly in the Sinai desert for 30 days. On the 30th day at exactly 1 p.m., all the money he needs will fall from the skies like manna from heaven."

I thought that kind of thing took 40 days and nights. Are you sure you heard right?

According to the original plan, the money wouldn't have fallen from the sky until the 40th day at 1 p.m. God wanted to see if Neil would wait around for another 10 days. This was supposed to be a test, but now that the secret is out, Neil may have to wait 50 days. In any case, Neil needs to keep wandering around the desert until something happens. If he is sufficiently pious during his desert sojourn, God will rain large bills down upon him. If not, Neil will still get the money, but it will all come in pennies.

Ghs

Well, there's my proof that I'm a prophet, George. I've been living full-time in Pahrump, Nevada -- high desert -- since December 2008. With a few travel days I've already spent every day in the desert for the past two years -- and easily over 50 days at a stretch. Evidently I anticipated God's test and have fulfilled it already, and if he wants to be a stickler about it, I should have fulfilled another 50 days by February. I'll start planning a spring 2011 start date for Alongside Night's principal photography immediately. Thanks for the intercession!

Edited December 19, 2010 by J. Neil Schulman

[George H. Smith]

I got stoned in high school. No, I don't mean wasted; I mean an entire shop class coming out onto the high school lawn and throwing rocks at me. I still feel twinges in one of my leg calves on damp days.

I think this counts.

I got "crucified" once. But that was a sex thing -- an experiment from the freewheeling 1970s -- and I'd rather not go into the details.

Ghs

[J Neil Schulman]

I got stoned in high school. No, I don't mean wasted; I mean an entire shop class coming out onto the high school lawn and throwing rocks at me. I still feel twinges in one of my leg calves on damp days.

I think this counts.

I got "crucified" once. But that was a sex thing -- an experiment from the freewheeling 1970s -- and I'd rather not go into the details.

Ghs

I always knew you Christian atheists got a lot more action than us Jewish atheists.

[George H. Smith]

According to the original plan, the money wouldn't have fallen from the sky until the 40th day at 1 p.m. God wanted to see if Neil would wait around for another 10 days. This was supposed to be a test, but now that the secret is out, Neil may have to wait 50 days. In any case, Neil needs to keep wandering around the desert until something happens. If he is sufficiently pious during his desert sojourn, God will rain large bills down upon him. If not, Neil will still get the money, but it will all come in pennies.

Ghs

Well, there's my proof that I'm a prophet, George. I've been living full-time in Pahrump, Nevada -- high desert -- since December 2008. With a few travel days I've already spent every day in the desert for the past two years -- and easily over 50 days at a stretch. Evidently I anticipated God's test and have fulfilled it already, and if he wants to be a stickler about it, I should have fulfilled another 50 days by February. I'll start planning a spring 2011 start date for Alongside Night's principal photography immediately. Thanks for the intercession!

As indicated by my earlier post, God specifically said the Sinai desert. God doesn't do away gigs. And he meant the desert , not some air-conditioned room in the desert. You are permitted to take all the water you can carry on your person. If you run out, God will provide.

Ghs

[J Neil Schulman]

According to the original plan, the money wouldn't have fallen from the sky until the 40th day at 1 p.m. God wanted to see if Neil would wait around for another 10 days. This was supposed to be a test, but now that the secret is out, Neil may have to wait 50 days. In any case, Neil needs to keep wandering around the desert until something happens. If he is sufficiently pious during his desert sojourn, God will rain large bills down upon him. If not, Neil will still get the money, but it will all come in pennies.

Ghs

Well, there's my proof that I'm a prophet, George. I've been living full-time in Pahrump, Nevada -- high desert -- since December 2008. With a few travel days I've already spent every day in the desert for the past two years -- and easily over 50 days at a stretch. Evidently I anticipated God's test and have fulfilled it already, and if he wants to be a stickler about it, I should have fulfilled another 50 days by February. I'll start planning a spring 2011 start date for Alongside Night's principal photography immediately. Thanks for the intercession!

As indicated by my earlier post, God specifically said the Sinai desert. God doesn't do away gigs. And he meant the desert , not some air-conditioned room in the desert. You are permitted to take all the water you can carry on your person. If you run out, God will provide.

Ghs

No problem, George, and I'll book my passage to Israel as soon as you provide me with a notarized copy of God's instructions with his signature on it. Do you happen to know what God will use to provide proof of identity when he makes his personal appearance to the notary? They usually require a picture ID like a state driver's license or passport.

[George H. Smith]

I got stoned in high school. No, I don't mean wasted; I mean an entire shop class coming out onto the high school lawn and throwing rocks at me. I still feel twinges in one of my leg calves on damp days.

I think this counts.

I got "crucified" once. But that was a sex thing -- an experiment from the freewheeling 1970s -- and I'd rather not go into the details.

Ghs

I always knew you Christian atheists got a lot more action than us Jewish atheists.

My "crucifixion" did involve a couple Jewish women, if that makes you feel any better.

Ghs

[J Neil Schulman]

I got stoned in high school. No, I don't mean wasted; I mean an entire shop class coming out onto the high school lawn and throwing rocks at me. I still feel twinges in one of my leg calves on damp days.

I think this counts.

I got "crucified" once. But that was a sex thing -- an experiment from the freewheeling 1970s -- and I'd rather not go into the details.

Ghs

I always knew you Christian atheists got a lot more action than us Jewish atheists.

My "crucifixion" did involve a couple Jewish women, if that makes you feel any better.

Ghs

I'm pretty sure that crucifixion isn't allowed under Jewish law. Stoning, yes, but not crucifixion -- that was a Roman deal, and even Herod wasn't allowed to do it. I'm not sure what the rules are about goats or sheep being slaughtered in the Temple of Solomon. Usually knives are involved but crucifixion of a sacrificial lamb might be allowed in an emergency. I'd have to find a rabbi to check with, to be certain.

Edited December 19, 2010 by J. Neil Schulman

[George H. Smith]

I'm pretty sure that crucifixion isn't allowed under Jewish law. Stoning, yes, but not crucifixion -- that was a Roman deal, and even Herod wasn't allowed to do it. I'm not sure what the rules are about goats or sheep being slaughtered in the Temple of Solomon. Usually knives are involved but crucifixion of a sacrificial lamb might be allowed in an emergency. I'd have to find a rabbi to check with, to be certain.

Speaking of rabbis -- I couldn't embed

but check it out. The striking blonde with a whip is Mary Grover. Mary and I were good friends for years during the 1970s. She and my future ex-wife were roommates.

Ghs

[BaalChatzaf]

I got stoned in high school. No, I don't mean wasted; I mean an entire shop class coming out onto the high school lawn and throwing rocks at me. I still feel twinges in one of my leg calves on damp days.

I think this counts.

I got "crucified" once. But that was a sex thing -- an experiment from the freewheeling 1970s -- and I'd rather not go into the details.

Ghs

I always knew you Christian atheists got a lot more action than us Jewish atheists.

My "crucifixion" did involve a couple Jewish women, if that makes you feel any better.

Ghs

I'm pretty sure that crucifixion isn't allowed under Jewish law. Stoning, yes, but not crucifixion -- that was a Roman deal, and even Herod wasn't allowed to do it. I'm not sure what the rules are about goats or sheep being slaughtered in the Temple of Solomon. Usually knives are involved but crucifixion of a sacrificial lamb might be allowed in an emergency. I'd have to find a rabbi to check with, to be certain.

Modalities of execution were stoning, strangulation and having a burning wick inserted down the throat (the was kohanim who were drunk while making the sacrifices). Stoning was the most common. Crucifixion is a no no and leaving a body hanging after dark is prohibited.

See:

http://www.jlaw.com/Briefs/capital2.html

Ba'al Chatzaf.

[J Neil Schulman]

I'm pretty sure that crucifixion isn't allowed under Jewish law. Stoning, yes, but not crucifixion -- that was a Roman deal, and even Herod wasn't allowed to do it. I'm not sure what the rules are about goats or sheep being slaughtered in the Temple of Solomon. Usually knives are involved but crucifixion of a sacrificial lamb might be allowed in an emergency. I'd have to find a rabbi to check with, to be certain.

Speaking of rabbis -- I couldn't embed

but check it out. The striking blonde with a whip is Mary Grover. Mary and I were good friends for years during the 1970s. She and my future ex-wife were roommates.

Ghs

Definitely a Philip Roth/Woody Allen shiksa goddess.

[J Neil Schulman]

Crucifixion is a no no and leaving a body hanging after dark is prohibited.

See:

http://www.jlaw.com/Briefs/capital2.html

Ba'al Chatzaf.

I wonder if execution at dawn dates to Hebrew times for that reason?

[George H. Smith]

Definitely a Philip Roth/Woody Allen shiksa goddess.

Did you attend any of the parties that Diane and I gave in 1975? If so, you may have met Mary.

Mary and Diane were roommates in Culver City while I was writing ATCAG in 1972-73. I used to drive down there a lot to visit. Of course, the fact that clothing was optional, at least for Mary, had absolutely nothing to do with my frequent visits. B)

Mary was in at least one Elvis Presley movie, and she starred in those brief interludes on "Love American Style" for the first two years of the program. Mary is a superb singer; she co-starred in a major musical production with Robert Goulet. The last I heard Mary has been teaching voice for years.

Ghs

[J Neil Schulman]

Definitely a Philip Roth/Woody Allen shiksa goddess.

Did you attend any of the parties that Diane and I gave in 1975? If so, you may have met Mary.

Mary and Diane were roommates in Culver City while I was writing ATCAG in 1972-73. I used to drive down there a lot to visit. Of course, the fact that clothing was optional, at least for Mary, had absolutely nothing to do with my frequent visits. B)

Mary was in at least one Elvis Presley movie, and she starred in those brief interludes on "Love American Style" for the first two years of the program. Mary is a superb singer; she co-starred in a major musical production with Robert Goulet. The last I heard Mary has been teaching voice for years.

Ghs

I've never been to a clothing-optional party, period. Not even hot tub. My time in California was evidently a vast wasteland for me. I envy you, George. You're evidently the counter-argument to the truism that in Hollywood only Polish actresses sleep with the writer.

Of course, now that I think about it, I haven't done much better now that I'm directing. I know weight isn't a problem for Kevin Smith. I wonder if Michael Moore gets laid?

Edited December 20, 2010 by J. Neil Schulman

[George H. Smith]

I've never been to a clothing-optional party, period. Not even hot tub. My time in California was evidently a vast wasteland for me. I envy you, George. You're evidently the counter-argument to the truism that in Hollywood only Polish actresses sleep with the writer.

Of course, now that I think about it, I haven't done much better now that I'm directing. I know weight isn't a problem for Kevin Smith. I wonder if Michael Moore gets laid?

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Ghs

[J Neil Schulman]

If you cannot confirm the genuineness of other reports, how do you expect others to confirm the genuineness of your report? If you reject other reports because they don't conform "point-by-point" to your experience, then why should anyone who has not had an experience that conforms point-by-point to your experience grant any credence whatsoever to your report?

I am not talking about rigorous proof here; I understand that you don't claim to be able to prove to others that you talked to God. Rather, I am talking about a minimal degree of credibility. We normally don't spend much, if any, time examining a report if we don't first assess it as credible.

Ghs

George, do you find me to be non-credible reporter otherwise? Did you regard me as a non-credible reporter when I was still an atheist?

[George H. Smith]

If you cannot confirm the genuineness of other reports, how do you expect others to confirm the genuineness of your report? If you reject other reports because they don't conform "point-by-point" to your experience, then why should anyone who has not had an experience that conforms point-by-point to your experience grant any credence whatsoever to your report?

I am not talking about rigorous proof here; I understand that you don't claim to be able to prove to others that you talked to God. Rather, I am talking about a minimal degree of credibility. We normally don't spend much, if any, time examining a report if we don't first assess it as credible.

Ghs

George, do you find me to be non-credible reporter otherwise? Did you regard me as a non-credible reporter when I was still an atheist?

You didn't report anything about God when you were an atheist, and I regarded your silence as very credible indeed.

I don't regard you as a credible reporter about your experience. By this I don't mean that I think you are being anything less than completely honest about your description of the experience. What I don't regard as credible is your interpretation of the experience. I say this partly because of what I said above, viz., that you have not made an effort to establish criteria of credibility in this area. You are skeptical of other reports that do not conform "in every detail" to your own, so your only criterion of credibility seems to be the fact that your experience was your experience.

In other words, you seem to have paid little if any attention to the philosophical implications and problems associated with your claim to have talked to God. Should you ever do this, should you ever explain why we should accept your claim while rejecting similar claims by others, then your report might become more credible.

Do I regard you as a credible reporter in other matters? Yes, but I would say the same thing about many people who have reported mystical experiences. I used to know a Christian who was as honest and reliable as any person I have ever known. I would have bet my life on his word. But I didn't regard him as credible when he recounted his religious experiences to me.

Ghs

[J Neil Schulman]

George, do you find me to be non-credible reporter otherwise? Did you regard me as a non-credible reporter when I was still an atheist?

You didn't report anything about God when you were an atheist, and I regarded your silence as very credible indeed.

I don't regard you as a credible reporter about your experience. By this I don't mean that I think you are being anything less than completely honest about your description of the experience. What I don't regard as credible is your interpretation of the experience. I say this partly because of what I said above, viz., that you have not made an effort to establish criteria of credibility in this area. You are skeptical of other reports that do not conform "in every detail" to your own, so your only criterion of credibility seems to be the fact that your experience was your experience.

In other words, you seem to have paid little if any attention to the philosophical implications and problems associated with your claim to have talked to God. Should you ever do this, should you ever explain why we should accept your claim while rejecting similar claims by others, then your report might become more credible.

Do I regard you as a credible reporter in other matters? Yes, but I would say the same thing about many people who have reported mystical experiences. I used to know a Christian who was as honest and reliable as any person I have ever known. I would have bet my life on his word. But I didn't regard him as credible when he recounted his religious experiences to me.

Ghs

Brad Linaweaver, in his Preface to I Met God, presented the following as criteria why a reader should take my account more seriously than some other accounts:

What fascinates me about so many people who claim to be religious, or so many people who claim to have had mystical experiences, is how few ideas they get from that experience. One would think — if you have an experience of the Ultimate — a few ideas might stick to you. But you’d never know it from traditional religious people; you’d never know it from the traditional — if I may say so — mystic types, and the modern manifestation of the New Age types.

Neil is overflowing with ideas, and insights, that I find of great value, and I am an agnostic.

I'll therefore offer this as a first cut for analyzing "the philosophical implications and problems associated with [my] claim to have talked to God."

I'll also suggest that if someone is credible as a reporter for conventional matters, it increases their credibility in reporting unconventional matters.

Edited December 20, 2010 by J. Neil Schulman

[Brant Gaede]

Neil, what can be done with you testimony?

--Brant

[william.scherk]

George, do you find me to be non-credible reporter otherwise? Did you regard me as a non-credible reporter when I was still an atheist?

The question is stacked the way you put it. Try this:

Do you find me to be a credible reporter (on the subject of meeting god/religious experiences)? Did you regard me as a credible reporter (on the subject of meeting god/religious experiences) when I was still an atheist?

Neil, I don't believe anyone doubts you have more or less accurately reported 'the experience' -- especially since you have laid out the circumstances, the thoughts in your head, your physical and mental state, and so on); what is not easy to accept on its face is the claim that the voice in your head was the voice of a god, and that the account of the experience has been interpreted correctly.

You said in the interview that you were only 98% certain of the reality of the god in your head. Moreover you have written that you feel your only choice of interpretation was either Psychotic Break or Reality.

Why not a third interpretation choice, or more?

Aside from your position as a libertarian/Rand admirer, there doesn't seem to be much out of the ordinary in your reported experience, in terms of other reported 'mystical experience.' The hallmarks of a conversion experience are strong in your case.

It is difficult for me to understand your insistence that your experience (of god) was of a different order or class from these other experiences.

I suggest that you move on from discussion of this narrow issue. It isn't going anywhere fresh or fruitful, and it will be frustrating to you that few beyond theists/believers accept your experience as viridical.

Lots and lots of interesting and infuriating topics at hand at this forum, some of which are no doubt of interest to you. Why not set aside the god talk and enliven us with your take on other issues?

[J Neil Schulman]

Neil, what can be done with you testimony?

--Brant

Are you asking about reprints rights of it, or what utility it might have?