new utopia island project a real place for objectivis? or a lawsuit?t

[kluss]

hi

(sorry for my bad enghlis its my 2. langues and have dyslectic) did look on new utopia city state project (www.new-utopia.com) start to wonder is this realy a objectvist project (looks like they have laws that allso can be clasefid as survlisit/extropay/redneck libertarian (sarah palin? and lew rockwell? pat buchanen?)= religus rhigt or anti imigration/raccist/anti femenists/anti black)?

or is its just a fraud/failed investment that the charter citizens have had a class action aginst?

(server have been moved from texas to florida to britan )ther bussnis plan part of the project and the build house on the flotilla part have been closed the govoners changed and many of the school and airport and trust/comapny things that was part of the project did stop ther have diseperd,but maybe the can bee sued in caymen island becuse they ahd a office ther ?

angry investoer did a settelemnt outside court ?

wher can you look if you sgin up for this project ?

its look more like a dubai like project too me and are dubai actuly a place for objectvisits(it actuly did get statrted before dubai and dubai fail when the deppreson started)wher its not too liberal policys?look more like a police state for ritch old stock brokers then a libertaian utopia and a obejctvist place but not guns...

they delayed the project each 2. year can alle the difrent libertain live togehter peacfuley other then in a A-C system ?

did the investers sue them if so wher can get more info abut that ?this proejct got lot of press in the late 90s and ealry 2000s but not much info abut what realy happend

it did allso menntion karl pooper and robert heinlein not extaly a objectvist ?

did try too look on internet but nothing after 2005 hope sombody can help

agin sorry for my bad writng in from north europe (so maybe expelin principely deeply since usa liberal ideas are very difrent from my culture ;)and pason)

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Dustt,

Welcome to OL.

That's quite a first post. Sorry about your dyslexia.

You're from Norway?

If anyone wants to see what you are talking about, here is the Wikipedia article: New Utopia.

I remember the name from when I used to regularly read an anti-scam site called Quatloos. This was mentioned in the Wikipedia article, so here is the Quatloos link (you have to scroll down a bit: EXHIBIT: Fake Nations.

My advice is to stay away from things like that. Even if it is legit, if this dude Howard ever does get someone with deep pockets and turns that place into a thriving club for bazillionaires, it will be a sitting duck for pirates. As it stands, nobody cares, and that's probably a good thing for Howard.

Michael

[BaalChatzaf]

Dustt,

Welcome to OL.

That's quite a first post. Sorry about your dyslexia.

You're from Norway?

If anyone wants to see what you are talking about, here is the Wikipedia article: New Utopia.

I remember the name from when I used to regularly read an anti-scam site called Quatloos. This was mentioned in the Wikipedia article, so here is the Quatloos link (you have to scroll down a bit: EXHIBIT: Fake Nations.

My advice is to stay away from things like that. Even if it is legit, if this dude Howard ever does get someone with deep pockets and turns that place into a thriving club for bazillionaires, it will be a sitting duck for pirates. As it stands, nobody cares, and that's probably a good thing for Howard.

Michael

Enchanted Islands in the Sea and all that. Basically a scam. Even if "real" such projects lack a critical mass of population with the necessary skills to support a self standing nation/economy. Such pipe dreams are doomed to failure.

In the real world, the economy of the American colonies still depended on Britain for capital and technology for a long time after they were established.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[kiaer.ts]

hi

(sorry for my bad enghlis its my 2. langues and have dyslectic) did look on new utopia city state project (www.new-utopia.com) start to wonder is this realy a objectvist project (looks like they have laws that allso can be clasefid as survlisit/extropay/redneck libertarian (sarah palin? and lew rockwell? pat buchanen?)= religus rhigt or anti imigration/raccist/anti femenists/anti black)?

or is its just a fraud/failed investment that the charter citizens have had a class action aginst?

(server have been moved from texas to florida to britan )ther bussnis plan part of the project and the build house on the flotilla part have been closed the govoners changed and many of the school and airport and trust/comapny things that was part of the project did stop ther have diseperd,but maybe the can bee sued in caymen island becuse they ahd a office ther ?

angry investoer did a settelemnt outside court ?

wher can you look if you sgin up for this project ?

its look more like a dubai like project too me and are dubai actuly a place for objectvisits(it actuly did get statrted before dubai and dubai fail when the deppreson started)wher its not too liberal policys?look more like a police state for ritch old stock brokers then a libertaian utopia and a obejctvist place but not guns...

they delayed the project each 2. year can alle the difrent libertain live togehter peacfuley other then in a A-C system ?

did the investers sue them if so wher can get more info abut that ?this proejct got lot of press in the late 90s and ealry 2000s but not much info abut what realy happend

it did allso menntion karl pooper and robert heinlein not extaly a objectvist ?

did try too look on internet but nothing after 2005 hope sombody can help

agin sorry for my bad writng in from north europe (so maybe expelin principely deeply since usa liberal ideas are very difrent from my culture ;)and pason)

There is something fishy here. I have seen this same post on other fora. The misspellings are rather deliberate and not at all what you get from dyslexics or foreign language speakers. More like intentional misspellings in email spam, although the motive is unclear. Any person such a problem can also use any of a number of spell checkers such as the one included in this websites posting editor.

[DavidMcK]

It is hard to hide things in a written communication from the linguistic sorts on here. Hard to see why someone would construct a letter like this unless they are fishing for investors or something similar.

[Selene]

It is hard to hide things in a written communication from the linguistic sorts on here. Hard to see why someone would construct a letter like this unless they are fishing for investors or something similar.

It struck me as quite awkward also. As Ted said, with the software grammar programs, you have to consciously want to project this semantic.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

The poster's IP is from Norway.

That's as far as I have looked up to this point.

I once had an incident (on SoloHQ) where Kat and I both bashed a dyslexic person for writing like that (he wrote about religion). We thought he was phony and preaching in an underhanded manner in order to poke fun at an Objectivist site. Later, looking around the web, we discovered he was also autistic, a rather decent piano player, and we had hurt his feelings pretty deeply.

That's why I do not condemn anyone but the nastiest of the nasty folks or spammers on first contact. I wait for further interaction so I can make a better informed judgment. I don't want to make another mistake like I did before.

Michael

[DavidMcK]

I should have said IF constructed it is hard to see why it was done etc..... I've been on both sides of false accusations Michael, and it is embarrassing to be so wrong when you attack without justification, and it hurts when you are the object of an attack without justification. My point is really that Ayn Rand was someone who contributed to the idea of profiling...as in FBI profiling: not assuming that every black person in a Cadillac is a drug dealer. The FBI analyzes written communications (such as kidnapping letters) and comes up with a profile of the kind of person who might have written it. Ayn Rand did that with regard to philosophy, and some of the linguistics sorts on here seem to be really sharp about having a 'phony' detector.

[kluss]

Dustt,

Welcome to OL.

That's quite a first post. Sorry about your dyslexia.

You're from Norway?

If anyone wants to see what you are talking about, here is the Wikipedia article: New Utopia.

I remember the name from when I used to regularly read an anti-scam site called Quatloos. This was mentioned in the Wikipedia article, so here is the Quatloos link (you have to scroll down a bit: EXHIBIT: Fake Nations.

My advice is to stay away from things like that. Even if it is legit, if this dude Howard ever does get someone with deep pockets and turns that place into a thriving club for bazillionaires, it will be a sitting duck for pirates. As it stands, nobody cares, and that's probably a good thing for Howard.

Michael

i am

greatfull for repay and understand my dyslectic sorry spellcheker still dont work on public computer here..

btw if fishy why shoudl i choose a small country that have 5 milion citizens if i going to use a proxyer server or some fancy ip stuff.....

so if i allredy are a charter citizen?

so if you allredy are a charter citizens for many years?

(only been delays each 2. year and rumoers from 2005 that govunoers start to look on this as fraud and want to sue them but nothing written abut this project other then <<news>> after 2007, so a settelment happend? but they did have to shut up or did the fraud invesgatoer find and sued holding comapns in tax shelters? and becuse of that dont wnat to make any noise becuse this allso have problem( abut suscpices invetsoers ? mony landuery? id fraud ?)

yes but that webpage are form before 2007 did read on a invetsor website that he was convinced of fraud in 2007 and the projects (aparments/devlopment plans ) start to stop then same abut the servers and the names.... how do i know if they have been a class action or settelmen whit the investores?do you know if amaricans can sue class action agisnt for exampek a company in behamas or virgin island ? some websites have been closed dowen and moved some post adreses for govoners dont exist anymore..

so if you allredy are a charter citizens?

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Dustt,

I am not a charter member of that venture.

I am not a member in any other capacity.

I never will be a member.

Not interested.

Michael

EDIT: Just in case I misunderstood you post, the USA government only has jurisdiction over the USA. This venture is about a projected different country. In other words, if someone invested in something like that and the entire transaction was outside of the USA, there are no USA laws that are being broken. In USA courts, class actions, settlements, etc., only pertain to USA laws and treaties. The IRS keeps trying to expand its influence to offshore, but I doubt it will ever succeed in any meaningful manner.

Outside of this, I don't understand your interest. Did you get stung by this thing?

[BaalChatzaf]

Beware of promises of an instant ready made paradise. If something is too good to be true it is almost certainly false.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[kluss]

Sorry the last sentence in last post as bad editing think you don’t understand

No i am not going to get you as a member

Eh this thing was not instant ready it was going to be ready in 2004 when they did have make the airport and harbour real but did get delayed many times if you believed the construction report that was online several year ago this would already be a place for shipping casino and condos and hotels by now…but it look like Dubai did take the idea and made it real before they could or want to do that many folks on the constitution of the island and as ministers are already questionable investors of you look on goggle 10 years ago you could not do that…

If you read the constitution you get the feeling they are try to make a cake and eat it too make it a place for religious sarha pailn objecvtist too survalsits and extropyn objecvtsits too…

Yhe got stung by this

Don’t a usa court have a responsibility if the organization have its member from outside usa ?(if a class action do sue on the base of a id fraud or just plain fraud because I guess they already know who the members are because they have a reguisitrion for a charter citizens and the letters you have to send to them(but when you changed the mail address since you did get a member you not know for sure what happened to the unhappy investors and the broken promises/projects )or the state court system if a companies are registered in Nevada, texas or florida when the post addresses are in usa by us citizens ?or do the Cayman island be responsibly for it if they have the bank accounts caymen island was not too happy abut this project and in a video they did have a office on the island but the eh membership adres was on us soil? Settlements will not that happen in usa when it’s a mail address in texas or the ppl are living in usa and usa citizens ?i guess you cant avoid usa laws because you only have a green card?

So how and what should i do ?

Btw do you think all the different types of objectivists/libertarians can live peacefully together are not so big difference between survalists and hedonists’ objectivists that they can do that ?eh don’t irs start to get power in Cayman island Bahamas and Bermuda after 9/!! Of course they will not control and it will not be hard to move too place that are controlled by other world powers like huog kong Singapore Dubai and Monaco but since much of the regulation and paperwork are done in new york and london some said it would be harder to make criminals things in carbien islands now..

Edited December 20, 2010 by dustt

[kluss]

hmm not usa

not so sure ?

http://www.robtex.com/dns/tech-utopia.biz.html#whois

http://www.robtex.com/dns/new-utopia.com.html#whois

[Selene]

hmm not usa

not so sure ?

http://www.robtex.co....biz.html#whois

http://www.robtex.co....com.html#whois

Well it is in Connecticut:

http://discoveryutop...wikispaces.com/

http://academyofdisc...wikispaces.com/

Has some interesting links to failed Utopia projects in the US.

Anthem is mentioned and used in the apparent coursework by the teacher.

Call Sign: N1LSJ, Licensee ID: L00672500

Grant Date: 04/18/2003, Expiration Date: 04/18/2013

Registrant: Ronald A Kimball, 16 Park Road, Putnam, CT 06260 Has a ham radio license out of that address...

Read more: http://www.city-data...l#ixzz19PeB2EP4

Edited December 28, 2010 by Selene

[kluss]

thansk for find it out for me seiene:)

since you good at data mining can you find anything on this guy ?

new utopia org justin bilancieri?

realted to the new utopia city state project or just a other proof of a lawsuite aginst fraud ?

(sorry cut and past did not work on this computer

btw what are a arch conservative place (suposed to be in utah )in a usa political scale ?(pevo utah wher a other of those domain was registerd was called that in wikipedia )

sory no spellcheker here

[Selene]

thansk for find it out for me seiene:)

since you good at data mining can you find anything on this guy ?

new utopia org justin bilancieri?

realted to the new utopia city state project or just a other proof of a lawsuite aginst fraud ?

(sorry cut and past did not work on this computer

btw what are a arch conservative place (suposed to be in utah )in a usa political scale ?(pevo utah wher a other of those domain was registerd was called that in wikipedia )

sory no spellcheker here

dustt:

Utah is basically a Mormon State that is perceived as very conservative by current "standards."

Glenn Beck converted to Mormonism. John Huntsman, the ex-governor of Utah and according to the following article, is considering a run for the Presidency in 2012. Money will be no object as his family is mega wealthy.

"But sources close to Huntsman (who requested anonymity to speak freely without his permission) say that during his December trip to the U.S., he met with several former political advisers in Washington and Salt Lake City to discuss a potential campaign. “I’m not saying he’s running,” says one supporter who has worked with him in the past. “But we’re a fire squad; if he says the word, we can get things going fast.” What’s more, Huntsman tells NEWSWEEK that when he accepted the ambassadorial appointment, he promised his family they would “come up for air” sometime in 2010 to decide how much longer they would stay in Beijing. “I’m not announcing anything at all,” he says. But he sure seems to be hinting. The cable-news crowd will undoubtedly scoff at Huntsman’s prospects in a Republican primary. After a right-wing resurgence flooded Congress with Tea Party Republicans, the field doesn’t appear particularly inviting to a moderate Obama appointee. But an increasingly vocal segment of the GOP is worried that the conservative populism of 2010 is distracting the party from its more pressing priorities. “We may be confusing a clearing in the forest for being out of the woods,” says Republican strategist John Weaver, who notes young voters’ disapproval of some of the party’s social agenda. “There is a ticking demographic time bomb working against us, and if we don’t correct that problem very soon, we could wind up back where we were four years ago.” What the party needs now, argue supporters like Weaver, is a leader who can negotiate a treaty of sorts between the right-wing base and forward-thinking moderates. The GOP, in other words, needs an ambassador."

http://www.newsweek.com/2011/01/04/the-manchurian-candidate.print.html

Adam

[kluss]

ok

i dont have more quasiton becuse i seem a lots of glenn beck vs sahra pailn vs tea party vs objectvism rants in difrent theards

and the anwser on the msg i did send you ??

sorry but when you have a part time job you can maybe forget that other ppl have less time use on internet

if you want you can post the anwser here or a msg did think they start to go off topic thats why i did send as a msg :reasson this posts are abut new uotopia project and not each investors or guvonuers/doman name guy

thansk for find it out for me seiene:)

since you good at data mining can you find anything on this guy ?

new utopia org justin bilancieri?

realted to the new utopia city state project or just a other proof of a lawsuite aginst fraud ?

(sorry cut and past did not work on this computer

btw what are a arch conservative place (suposed to be in utah )in a usa political scale ?(pevo utah wher a other of those domain was registerd was called that in wikipedia )

sory no spellcheker here

dustt:

Utah is basically a Mormon State that is perceived as very conservative by current "standards."

Glenn Beck converted to Mormonism. John Huntsman, the ex-governor of Utah and according to the following article, is considering a run for the Presidency in 2012. Money will be no object as his family is mega wealthy.

"But sources close to Huntsman (who requested anonymity to speak freely without his permission) say that during his December trip to the U.S., he met with several former political advisers in Washington and Salt Lake City to discuss a potential campaign. “I’m not saying he’s running,” says one supporter who has worked with him in the past. “But we’re a fire squad; if he says the word, we can get things going fast.” What’s more, Huntsman tells NEWSWEEK that when he accepted the ambassadorial appointment, he promised his family they would “come up for air” sometime in 2010 to decide how much longer they would stay in Beijing. “I’m not announcing anything at all,” he says. But he sure seems to be hinting. The cable-news crowd will undoubtedly scoff at Huntsman’s prospects in a Republican primary. After a right-wing resurgence flooded Congress with Tea Party Republicans, the field doesn’t appear particularly inviting to a moderate Obama appointee. But an increasingly vocal segment of the GOP is worried that the conservative populism of 2010 is distracting the party from its more pressing priorities. “We may be confusing a clearing in the forest for being out of the woods,” says Republican strategist John Weaver, who notes young voters’ disapproval of some of the party’s social agenda. “There is a ticking demographic time bomb working against us, and if we don’t correct that problem very soon, we could wind up back where we were four years ago.” What the party needs now, argue supporters like Weaver, is a leader who can negotiate a treaty of sorts between the right-wing base and forward-thinking moderates. The GOP, in other words, needs an ambassador."

http://www.newsweek.com/2011/01/04/the-manchurian-candidate.print.html

Adam

[kluss]

http://www.tech-utopia.org and this ?

they did have it on a eh get a citizenship document ther that it allso gone any idea who was behind it?

a other proof that this folks are poor now ?

how can ir be that a project/fraud have stop but no reasson why and what happend ???

[Judith]

There was a project similar to this one in the '90s that looked quite promising for awhile but eventually went belly up for lack of funding. It still has a web site:

http://oceania.org/

Judith

[Selene]

There was a project similar to this one in the '90s that looked quite promising for awhile but eventually went belly up for lack of funding. It still has a web site:

http://oceania.org/

Judith

Yes Judith:

I was quite interested in this project at the time, but it never generated the hard money required. His final words section from the website are quite revealing.

"The Atlantis Project will not be restarted. Founder Eric Klien's current project is Lifeboat Foundation, a project dedicated to the preservation of the human race.

The following letter is directed towards subscribers of The Atlantis Project/Oceania mailing list:

Hi,

This is Eric Klien from The Atlantis Project. A project which ended in 1994, but even today continues to receive positive feedback.

In retrospect, the biggest problem concerning The Atlantis Project was lack of interest. Lack of interest and the fact that its precepts were based in Libertarian politics. The Libertarian party is small in number and too few members have the financial resources to bankroll their beliefs. The poor performance of Libertarian candidates throughout the nation is reflective of these sad facts.

I put a huge amount of effort into The Atlantis Project and the lessons learned from that experience have come to good use. I now run a fairly large web hosting company, and have for the past six years.

My reason for contacting you again, so many years after the Atlantis Project has ended, is that I have come upon a new endeavor that concerns all people, even Libertarians. In fact, this project is a humanitarian effort to preserve the future of all humankind. You can read about it and subscribe to our free newsletter at lifeboat.com.

Wish me luck!

Eric

P.S. Over the years, in case of renewed interest, I've kept in touch with many supporters. For example, the billing supervisor of my web hosting company used to be the general manager of The Atlantis Project. Well, guess who joined the Lifeboat Foundation team!"

Looks like the Lifeboat group is current and functioning.

Adam

Edited January 8, 2011 by Selene

[kluss]

hmm but new utopia do look more like dubai project then the old 90s project... other type of ppl want join ? libertarian ociena was maybe more civil libertaians/hobos and hedonists ??? new utopia are more sinagpore like in food/building/street laws

new-utopia innsist they have mony but many website dowen...

There was a project similar to this one in the '90s that looked quite promising for awhile but eventually went belly up for lack of funding. It still has a web site:

http://oceania.org/

Judith

Yes Judith:

I was quite interested in this project at the time, but it never generated the hard money required. His final words section from the website are quite revealing.

"The Atlantis Project will not be restarted. Founder Eric Klien's current project is Lifeboat Foundation, a project dedicated to the preservation of the human race.

The following letter is directed towards subscribers of The Atlantis Project/Oceania mailing list:

Hi,

This is Eric Klien from The Atlantis Project. A project which ended in 1994, but even today continues to receive positive feedback.

In retrospect, the biggest problem concerning The Atlantis Project was lack of interest. Lack of interest and the fact that its precepts were based in Libertarian politics. The Libertarian party is small in number and too few members have the financial resources to bankroll their beliefs. The poor performance of Libertarian candidates throughout the nation is reflective of these sad facts.

I put a huge amount of effort into The Atlantis Project and the lessons learned from that experience have come to good use. I now run a fairly large web hosting company, and have for the past six years.

My reason for contacting you again, so many years after the Atlantis Project has ended, is that I have come upon a new endeavor that concerns all people, even Libertarians. In fact, this project is a humanitarian effort to preserve the future of all humankind. You can read about it and subscribe to our free newsletter at lifeboat.com.

Wish me luck!

Eric

P.S. Over the years, in case of renewed interest, I've kept in touch with many supporters. For example, the billing supervisor of my web hosting company used to be the general manager of The Atlantis Project. Well, guess who joined the Lifeboat Foundation team!"

Looks like the Lifeboat group is current and functioning.

Adam

[Selene]

Peter Thiel Bankrolling Libertarian Sea Colony — Because He Was Inspired By Atlas Shrugged

Thiel and Atlantis...

Hmmmmm....

[BaalChatzaf]

Peter Thiel Bankrolling Libertarian Sea Colony — Because He Was Inspired By Atlas Shrugged

Thiel and Atlantis...

Hmmmmm....

That "sea colony" will not hold enough people to create a viable society. For a society to function it must reach a "critical mass" of population with the right mix of skills.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Reidy]

Stranded at sea with a bunch of Ron Paul fans. What a horrifying thought.

[Selene]

More on the island

The idea is for these countries to start from scratch--free from the laws, regulations, and moral codes of any existing place. Details says the experiment would be "a kind of floating petri dish for implementing policies that libertarians, stymied by indifference at the voting booths, have been unable to advance: no welfare, looser building codes, no minimum wage, and few restrictions on weapons."