Grandpa and Grandma the murderer

[Selene]

Shayne:

I would assume that you are applying your statement about capitalism to Ayn also. Essentially, if I understand your argument above, Ayn would be espousing fascism by her advocacy of capitalism?

I think to defend Man's Rights you defend them, all of them, systematically and without preference or bias given to any particular right over the others. Is there a reason you'd rather talk about Ayn Rand than the fundamental issue I'm raising?

Shayne

I thought it might be somehow related to the purpose dedicated on each page we post on...

Call me silly...but I thought it was a reasonable path of questioning.

Adam

Edited October 28, 2010 by Selene

[sjw]

Call me silly...but I thought it was a reasonable path of questioning.

Adam

It's reasonable. It's just that I don't think I can say anything useful without writing a big long essay.

I'll only say this. I think Rand did have a tendency to defend some rights at the expense of others, and in certain cases she outright invented them by unreasoning fiat (the worst case was patents, where she provided no justification of any kind, she just pretty much jumped up and down declaring how wonderful they were). Any bias at all in defending rights is tantamount to attacking the rights you ignore, and on a large scale leads to the kind of dichotomies we've historically seen such as communism vs. fascism.

Shayne

[Selene]

Call me silly...but I thought it was a reasonable path of questioning.

Adam

It's reasonable. It's just that I don't think I can say anything useful without writing a big long essay.

I'll only say this. I think Rand did have a tendency to defend some rights at the expense of others, and in certain cases she outright invented them by unreasoning fiat (the worst case was patents, where she provided no justification of any kind, she just pretty much jumped up and down declaring how wonderful they were). Any bias at all in defending rights is tantamount to attacking the rights you ignore, and on a large scale leads to the kind of dichotomies we've historically seen such as communism vs. fascism.

Shayne

Shayne:

Thank you.

I would be interested in the longer essay answer also.

I have seen your argumentation on patents. I have two clients currently who I am navigating the patent process for. For the life of me, I do not see how international protection can be seriously nailed down via the current system.

Any bias at all in defending rights is tantamount to attacking the rights you ignore, and on a large scale leads to the kind of dichotomies we've historically seen such as communism vs. fascism.

I need some clarification on the highlighted section. "Bias" in what sense? If I argue that the individuals right to possess weapons is an absolute natural right, which I do argue, that would mean that I am attacking all the rights I ignore???? I'm confused.

Adam

[sjw]

I would be interested in the longer essay answer also.

I can't take that project on, too busy. I have touched on some of the issues here:

http://www.amazon.com/Individual-Rights-Treatise-Human-Relations/dp/0984587004/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288283402&sr=8-1

Use "Look Inside", search for "Economism/Fascism". It will pop up the TOC, click "Next Result" and you'll see a little essay there, not targeted at Objectivism specifically, but relevant to this issue.

I have seen your argumentation on patents. I have two clients currently who I am navigating the patent process for. For the life of me, I do not see how international protection can be seriously nailed down via the current system.

Patents are an insidious bulwark of fascism. The advertising for them is that they defend the inventor, but in fact in most cases they provide the means to slit the inventor's throat, particularly the individual who doesn't have millions of dollars to defend a patent suit.

Any bias at all in defending rights is tantamount to attacking the rights you ignore, and on a large scale leads to the kind of dichotomies we've historically seen such as communism vs. fascism.

I need some clarification on the highlighted section. "Bias" in what sense? If I argue that the individuals right to possess weapons is an absolute natural right, which I do argue, that would mean that I am attacking all the rights I ignore???? I'm confused.

Adam

I'm saying that if you as a philosopher say "Here are Man's Rights, let me lay them all out for you," then you leave important ones out, then that's dangerous.

Shayne

[pippi]

Somebody wrote:

"And now Grandma and Grandpa because YOU slept, because of YOUR incompetence YOU think you have a Right to enslave me so you can retire at 65? YOU broke the bank, YOU LET yourself be robbed, now its time for YOU to pay the piper."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's a pretty good way to put it.

I agree

[pippi]

"Demi....why you do this to me Demi...why!" the exorcist 1973....

give your mom a break !

sorry this comment wasnt exactly right for this thread now that i read further. apologies

[9thdoctor]

I agree

Welcome to OL. Do you wear longstockings?

I bet you’ve already been asked that enough times.

[equality72521]

"Demi....why you do this to me Demi...why!" the exorcist 1973....

give your mom a break !

sorry this comment wasnt exactly right for this thread now that i read further. apologies

Shayne,

When I was a kid I used to say "I never want to become an adult because adults are stupid." in the years since I turned 18 that conviction has only deepened.

If a flood happens every 10 years and someone says in year 5 you would accuse them of being a Malthusian. The normal experience is that when animals reach a certain threshold it is impossible for them to recover as a population. I do not hold that it is impossible for humans however it is a concern (on a scale from 1 least to 10 most its about a 2). Given snowflake babies it is quite possible to recover if the tech is developed.

[sjw]

Shayne,

When I was a kid I used to say "I never want to become an adult because adults are stupid." in the years since I turned 18 that conviction has only deepened.

So the wisdom of a child is guiding you. Good luck with that.

If a flood happens every 10 years and someone says in year 5 you would accuse them of being a Malthusian.

Actually, speaking of floods, I think what I'm really saying is quite over your head. I'll just say for the record that I'm not saying things aren't bad and aren't getting worse, nor am I saying that society is definitely not going to collapse.

The normal experience is that when animals reach a certain threshold it is impossible for them to recover as a population. I do not hold that it is impossible for humans however it is a concern (on a scale from 1 least to 10 most its about a 2). Given snowflake babies it is quite possible to recover if the tech is developed.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program...

Shayne

[equality72521]

Shayne,

When I was a kid I used to say "I never want to become an adult because adults are stupid." in the years since I turned 18 that conviction has only deepened.

So the wisdom of a child is guiding you. Good luck with that.

What I am saying is demonstrated by your post. your intentional distortion of my view and further your refusal to stick to the point (your slam at me for example). "Adults" grow stagnant , they become complacent in their thinking and become inflexible in there thinking. This is what I refuse to do, I keep my thinking dynamic and dont allow myself to become complacent. BTW you have not disabused me of my stand.

[pippi]

"Adults" grow stagnant , they become complacent in their thinking and become inflexible in there thinking. This is what I refuse to do

generalize much? and who exactly cares what you do or dont refuse to do?

(btw how about a spell check?)

and yes I wear longstockings when it is cold

[equality72521]

"Adults" grow stagnant , they become complacent in their thinking and become inflexible in there thinking. This is what I refuse to do

generalize much? and who exactly cares what you do or dont refuse to do?

(btw how about a spell check?)

and yes I wear longstockings when it is cold

I use spell check a lot. dyslexia....

And yes it is a general impression.

[sjw]

What I am saying is demonstrated by your post. your intentional distortion of my view and further your refusal to stick to the point (your slam at me for example). "Adults" grow stagnant , they become complacent in their thinking and become inflexible in there thinking. This is what I refuse to do, I keep my thinking dynamic and dont allow myself to become complacent. BTW you have not disabused me of my stand.

I might point out that most of the people here at OL are adults. Not that citing facts will disabuse you of anything you don't wish to be disabused of.

Shayne

[pippi]

I might point out that most of the people here at OL are adults. Not that citing facts will disabuse you of anything you don't wish to be disabused of.

Shayne

thank you

[pippi]

Me: You all (her generation) fucked us. It is morally reprehensible what you have done,

why do you post here? this is not taking responsibility for yourself .

i am sorry i agreed on a former post of yours in this thread i didnt read it closely enough