How to act if you are pulled over by the police in a traffic stop

[Selene]

Folks: This is quite accurate. I taught defensive driving for the National Safety Council for ten (10) years. We had a lot of police officers, state troopers and sheriffs in my classes because they had become clients of our insurance agency. I would always ask them what they looked for when they pulled people over.

This article confirms what they said. Basically, paperwork in order, courtesy and an admission of what you did wrong to be pulled over.

"In what he calls an 'educational video' that's widely circulated on YouTube, comedian Chris Rock offers advice on what to do when you get pulled over for a traffic violation.

'Obey the law' he says. 'Stop immediately' and 'stay in your car with your hands on the wheel.' Finally, 'if your woman is mad at you, leave her at home. There's nothing she'd like to see more than you getting your [you-know-what] kicked.'

It's a dead-on spoof of a hard truth: Respect authority. If you don't, you increase the odds of a pricey ticket.'Everything in that video is absolutely true,' said Sgt. Matthew Koep of the South Plainfield, N.J., Police Department. 'It's funny, but it's accurate.'

Citizens who are generally law-abiding are likely to come into contact with the police only under two circumstances: If you're a crime victim or you get pulled over for a traffic violation.

Police officers are not out to make your life miserable, but to make sure you're following the rules of the road and not endangering yourself or those around you.

With a few exceptions, and an egregious traffic violation is top among them, cops aren't mandated to write tickets. Most would rather send you on your way with a friendly warning -- that can save you time and money.

But handle the situation with an aggressive or arrogant attitude and you can expect to squeeze an expensive court date into your busy schedule.

Play Nice

First rule: don't argue. [Absolutely true - my commentary is in brackets]

'I get this all the time,' said Karen Rittorno, a nine-year veteran with the Chicago Police Department. ''What are you stopping me for? I didn't do nothing. If they try to take charge of the traffic stop, they're not going to get out of it without a ticket,' she said. 'We ask the questions, not them.'

Accept that the police have caught you doing something that's against the law, such as speeding or gliding through a stop sign. [i have been told that they know that you know what you did wrong - so an admission of guilt will 75% of the time get you out of a moving violation with points on your license or maybe only an equipment ticket which can be easily satisfied - no points or no ticket at all ]

'All we do is react to what people do when you pull them over,' said Dennis Fanning, a homicide detective and veteran officer with the Los Angeles Police Department. 'We don't instigate the stuff, but we will react to you. The situation will escalate or de-escalate depending on how that person reacts.'

To argue with cops is akin to calling them idiots. Don't do that. 'That's implying that I pulled you over for no reason and that bothers me,' Koep said.

Keep It Honest

Don't lie, either. Cops are trained to note the human characteristics of lying, including twitching and looking to the left, [a right handed person will look to the left when lying and the reverse is true if they are left handed] and they know the right questions to ask to suss out the truth.

Fanning estimates that nine out of 10 people lie to him. 'It's an attack on our intelligence,' he said.

Moreover, the truth can set you free. Koep recalled an incident when he pulled a young guy over for speeding.

"He looks straight at me and says, 'You know, officer, I wasn't even paying attention. I just had the best date of my life. I just met my future bride. I'm just on cloud nine right now.' [This works and I have flat out told an officer that my license was currently suspended and he was fine with it and I was not given any tickets]

"The guy was completely serious," Koep said. "How are you going to write that guy up after that? Who makes that kind of stuff up?"

Of course, don't use pejoratives when addressing the police, unless you're eager for a ticket. But other words may backfire, too. Rittorno works in a crime-ridden section of Chicago where the majority of people she pulls over for traffic violations don't have licenses or insurance, she said.

'So I get a lot of, 'I'm sorry, baby. I didn't mean it, sweetheart,' she said. 'I hate being called "baby' or 'sweetheart." I'm 'officer' to you.''

The police don't like being talked over, either. 'Be polite,' said Chicago Officer Mike Thomas. 'You have your rights as a citizen, too, but it doesn't do you any good to talk while he's talking.'

Cops know that people are nervous when they get pulled over, and they expect a certain amount of jumpiness when they approach a car. Rittorno even admitted she's intimidated in the same situation. 'I'm the police and I get scared if I get pulled over,' she said.

But did you know they're on edge, too? You know who they are, but they don't know whether you're a good guy or a bad guy. 'The only thing on his mind when he approaches you is safety,' Thomas said. 'You know you don't have a gun in your lap, but the officer doesn't know it.'

Rittorno, for one, said she assumes everyone has a gun. 'I'm always on 10,' she said, referring to her high level of vigilance. 'I take it down depending on their demeanor or what I see.'

Stay Calm

When those headlights go on, it's best to pull the car to the right, stay in the car, turn the interior lights on if it's dark and put your hands on the steering wheel.

Don't make any quick movements, and don't turn to grab your purse or put your hands in your pocket or under your seat to retrieve your license -- until the officer instructs you to. Then, do it slowly. [My suggestion is that you tell the officer what you are about to do]

Don't move to open the glove box either, until directed. And do that slowly, too. Let the police shine a light inside the box before you reach in. Many criminals hide guns in glove boxes.

'What's going to cause the situation to get worse is for the fear factor to rise in that officer,' Koep said. 'The officer is more likely to cut you a break as long as you can reduce that fear. …If you're friendly with me, not arguing or denying what happened, that lowers the fear factor and will make me a lot more cooperative with you.'

Don't boast about who you know, either. That can infuriate cops. They consider it a veiled threat to their livelihoods. Fortunately, most municipalities have laws in place to insure that an officer is not fired or reprimanded for ticketing, say, the mayor's daughter.

Finally, never try to buy off a cop.'"In those instances where they've offered me a bribe,' Fanning said. 'I loved making those arrests.'

Jennifer Waters is a MarketWatch reporter, based in Chicago.

Adam

[kiaer.ts]

Don't lie, either. Cops are trained to note the human characteristics of lying, including twitching and looking to the left, [a right handed person will look to the left when lying and the reverse is true if they are left handed] and they know the right questions to ask to suss out the truth.

What direction does a driver look when speaking to a cop at his window?

The above is fine advice, but it hardly helps when you get a cop with an attitude. I was pulled over for going 70 on the NJ Turnpike, which is hardly an unusual speed. Fine. The first thing the cop said when I rolled down the window was, "Where are you going?" I told him "to have the cast removed" from my left arm, which was true. His response was an annoyed "It's not on your foot, is it?" He was the one who asked the question.

I have been stopped by cops for having pulled a hat out of my pocket: "It could have been a gun." I was asked "What are you doing in this neighborhood, whitey" by officers Greenberg and Sanchez. I was stopped for making a wrong lane change near the Holland Tunnel, and told "Get the fuck out of NYC and don't come back." Easily a dozen times I was stopped for exiting or entering my own apartment building: "There's drug activity!" And for walking through Washingto Square Park "We have a description of a white guy in the area." Yes, believe it or not, a white guy in the Village. But each time I was unfailingly polite.

Edited September 19, 2010 by Ted Keer

[Selene]

Ted:

The article was inartful in that description. When you have already turned and are looking into the officer's chest or face, if you are right handed and you are lying your eyes will look upward and to the left.

The answer to the cop with the attitude in the seventy miles per hour was, "Geez Officer, I know I was going faster than the limit. This cast is driving me nuts. Sorry.

The others, except for the cap in the pocket do not involve traffic stops. You did make the illegal lane change, so I would have been real apologetic.

Can you flesh out the pulling the hat out of your pocket? Was it a traffic stop?

Adam

Edited September 19, 2010 by Selene

[kiaer.ts]

Ted:

The article was inartful in that description. When you have already turned and are looking into the officer's chest or face, if you are right handed and you are lying your eyes will look upward and to the left.

The answer to the cop with the attitude in the seventy miles per hour was, "Geez Officer, I know I was going faster than the limit. This cast is driving me nuts. Sorry.

The others, except for the cap in the pocket do not involve traffic stops. You did make the illegal lane change, so I would have been real apologetic.

Can you flesh out the pulling the hat out of your pocket? Was it a traffic stop?

Adam

The first words out of the police officer's mouth in the 70 mph turnpike incident were "where are you going" and I answered him literally. The cast was not driving me nuts, I offered no excuse. Looking back, it is quite obvious to me that he was on steroids, he was about 300lbs of muscle, which you don't get as a white man sitting in a car all day.

As for the hat incident, I was walking with my boyfriend from his grandmother's house in Harlem to the A Train to go downtown to a concert. We walked past a parked cop car and they turned on their lights after we passed. They had me up against the wall, asking me where the drugs were. We said we were on our way to the train. They found nothing, but handcuffed me, saying that they knew I "must have a warrant." My boyfriend asked why they had stopped us. They said that when I had reached into my jacket, the hat I pulled out of my pocket could have been a gun. I had put the hat on my head before they exited the car. It was a cynical, pat excuse, the same sort they used when they shot Amadou Diallo in the same neighborhood and said the keys he pulled out of his pocket could have been a gun. They held me at the station for about an hour, with my boyfriend making a lot of noise at the front desk demanding I be charged or released. I was released with a summons for disorderly conduct, but the cop failed to show at the hearing, and the charge was dismissed. I was advised by a lawyer that if I paid a $500 retainer I would likely get a $10,000 settlement for wrongful arrest after a few years of maneuvering. I didn't follow it up, but think now that I probably should have.

The day of the first Giuliani inauguration, the police held a 13 schoolbus and several dozen cop car parade down 138th Street in the Bronx. Cops on foot had their batons out, and they banged them on each storefront as they passed -- these being tax paying businesses. It was like a scene out of Planet of the Apes.

I am not against cops. I have seen them in action when my neighbor was shot to death by his wife. There were three dozen cops in the building within two minutes of my calling 911. The problem is the corrupting influence of the drug war. I would gladly pay cops much more, but only if we end the drug war and hold them to a much higher standard of behavior.

[Selene]

OK Ted:

My original post was restricted to traffic stops. Therefore, we are now down to two (2) incidents. One with the cast and one involving the illegal lane change.

In both cases you were "technically" breaking the law. In the speeding case, the officer had an attitude according to you. Therefore, that falls in the 30% range of officers where the techniques described do not work.

All the other examples you gave have nothing to do with traffic stops. Correct?

Adam

[sjw]

Well this is just common sense. Always pretend to respect somebody who is holding you up at gunpoint, whether it is a crook or a cop.

The natural response is that when a human being has done nothing to harm another, they are going to get indignant at the harm inflicted by being pulled over by a cop and getting ticketed. But one must remember the gun on the hip of that cop, the Court standing behind the cop regardless of whether he lies or not, and the full weight of the government standing behind the Court regardless of systematic abuse of innocents.

So yes, play nice.

Shayne

[Brant Gaede]

I once knew a NYC cop. He got in trouble, in the words of another NYC cop, for "beating up a nigger." I also heard him say once that if he came across a $200,000 bribe on a drug arrest he'd "have to go talk with my partner." I learned years later that he had been fired for some reason or another.

The last moving violation I ever got was 76 in a 65 in Texas. The problem was my truck couldn't go faster than 65 unless there was a roll-out, but there was no grade in that county that one could do that with. I pleaded not guilty and the court date didn't appear until 8 months later and by that time it was impossible for me to go to Texas from Arizona for the date and my request for a postponement was denied. It didn't matter that the officer obviously was postponing coming to court time after time and it was all for his and the court's convenience. If the officer was mistaken as opposed to lying at the time of the summons it was because he got an inaccurate radar reading as my truck crossed the T where radar is most likely to be inaccurate.

In 400,000 miles of driving over two years, I frequently saw cars pulled over with dogs sniffing them up. Once I gave a cop on the Navajo Reservation in NM permission for him to go through my truck cab, but that was construed by him to be my permission for him to put a dog in the cab. I used to fantasize a little about going back and feeding that dog some anti-freeze, but it's been so long I know he's dead and gone by now.

My default cop position is extremely negative because of the greater and greater tyranny we have been living under. I will never have a conversation with any federal law enforcement officer without my lawyer present, and audio and video recording in his office only--if then.

--Brant

[sjw]

The government likes to whine about "radicalized" Americans, while the same time and through the War on Drugs and the War on Terror, producing most radicalized group of Americans ever: law enforcement.

[Judith]

Basically, paperwork in order, courtesy and an admission of what you did wrong to be pulled over.

Can't agree with the last one -- at least not if it's in the context of "do you know why I pulled you over?" or "do you know how fast you were going?"

The correct answer to those questions is always some form of "no". Their purpose is to gain from you an admission that can be used in a court of law -- and is also a fishing expedition in case they get lucky. Maybe they pulled you over because your tail lamp is out and you go and admit that your inspection is out of date, which they hadn't noticed. Maybe their radar clocked you at 73 and you admit to 76, which pushes you up into another bracket. Etc. You have absolutely nothing to gain from answering those questions with anything other than some polite negative.

Judith

[Selene]

Basically, paperwork in order, courtesy and an admission of what you did wrong to be pulled over.

Can't agree with the last one -- at least not if it's in the context of "do you know why I pulled you over?" or "do you know how fast you were going?"

The correct answer to those questions is always some form of "no". Their purpose is to gain from you an admission that can be used in a court of law -- and is also a fishing expedition in case they get lucky. Maybe they pulled you over because your tail lamp is out and you go and admit that your inspection is out of date, which they hadn't noticed. Maybe their radar clocked you at 73 and you admit to 76, which pushes you up into another bracket. Etc. You have absolutely nothing to gain from answering those questions with anything other than some polite negative.

Judith

Judith:

Yes, I should have qualified that statement. If you know you were in excess of the speed limit, the statement is: "Officer, I had my mind on something else, was I going too fast?"

And it is also a "feel" decision based on what you know you did and the approach the Officer takes. If you know that your inspection sticker is expired, it is not going to take too long for even the most inept officer to see it.

I understand your point though.

Adam

Edited September 21, 2010 by Selene

[kiaer.ts]

In 400,000 miles of driving over two years, I frequently saw cars pulled over with dogs sniffing them up. Once I gave a cop on the Navajo Reservation in NM permission for him to go through my truck cab, but that was construed by him to be my permission for him to put a dog in the cab. I used to fantasize a little about going back and feeding that dog some anti-freeze, but it's been so long I know he's dead and gone by now.

Talk about displaced aggression! Of the three parties involved, you want to poison the only blameless one?

Edited September 21, 2010 by Ted Keer

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

With respect to the title of this thread, there is another thing you can do if the cop gives you an opening.

Bribery.

I don't suggest that for a variety of reasons, but it is an option.

I guess I have been living in Brazil for too long.

Anyway, up here you would not want to bribe a cop because you might get arrested for it.

Down there you never want to do that unless it's a last resort--because you run the risk of acquiring an unwanted partner in all your future income.

Michael

[Rich Engle]

With respect to the title of this thread, there is another thing you can do if the cop gives you an opening.

Bribery.

I don't suggest that for a variety of reasons, but it is an option.

I guess I have been living in Brazil for too long.

Anyway, up here you would not want to bribe a cop because you might get arrested for it.

Down there you never want to do that unless it's a last resort--because you run the risk of acquiring an unwanted partner in all your future income.

Michael

With the exception of a few choice cities, I'm pretty sure the good old days are gone. It was a kinder, gentler time. Sometimes, when you screwed up, and they knew you or your dad, they would even just tell you to go home, or give you a ride there if you were snockered. But even back then near the end of that era, the tender mercies were leaving us. Just ask Otis Campbell:

[Brant Gaede]

In 400,000 miles of driving over two years, I frequently saw cars pulled over with dogs sniffing them up. Once I gave a cop on the Navajo Reservation in NM permission for him to go through my truck cab, but that was construed by him to be my permission for him to put a dog in the cab. I used to fantasize a little about going back and feeding that dog some anti-freeze, but it's been so long I know he's dead and gone by now.

Talk about displaced aggression! Of the three parties involved, you want to poison the only blameless one?

Not really. That was only my alligator brain and the fantasy only acted as a safety valve blowing out. I gave it only a little thought overall. I would never, ever do such a thing to any animal and especially out of revenge. I am not a revenge-driven person. But if you had a police dog let loose in your house climbing all over your bed, I doubt if you'd have neutral feelings toward that dog.

--Brant

I never fantasize about killing police officers; when that happens I either go to war with them because they are NKVD, KGP, Gestapo or I leave the country and at my age I'll leave; I want to be done with the killing business for the rest of my life; it damages you regardless of any necessity--for example, in Texas maybe 20 years ago, a knife-wielding man invaded a home and a struggle began between him and the father of a son who saw what was going on: the very young boy went and got a hunting rifle and killed the bad guy and I assure you that has significantly informed the rest of his life, both good and bad, but since I am not him I cannot tell you the ratio between the two; it all has to do with how his mind processed what he did then and over the fullness of time

Edited September 21, 2010 by Brant Gaede

[sjw]

With respect to the title of this thread, there is another thing you can do if the cop gives you an opening.

Bribery.

I don't suggest that for a variety of reasons, but it is an option.

I guess I have been living in Brazil for too long.

Anyway, up here you would not want to bribe a cop because you might get arrested for it.

Down there you never want to do that unless it's a last resort--because you run the risk of acquiring an unwanted partner in all your future income.

Michael

I know what you're talking about second-hand now, my uncle's girlfriend is from Brazil and she had a lot of stories. The cops in Brazil are totally corrupt and the people constantly flout the laws with black-market activities and doing stuff like stealing electricity from the most handy set of wires.

Shayne

[kiaer.ts]

In 400,000 miles of driving over two years, I frequently saw cars pulled over with dogs sniffing them up. Once I gave a cop on the Navajo Reservation in NM permission for him to go through my truck cab, but that was construed by him to be my permission for him to put a dog in the cab. I used to fantasize a little about going back and feeding that dog some anti-freeze, but it's been so long I know he's dead and gone by now.

Talk about displaced aggression! Of the three parties involved, you want to poison the only blameless one?

Not really. That was only my alligator brain and the fantasy only acted as a safety valve blowing out. I gave it only a little thought overall. I would never, ever do such a thing to any animal and especially out of revenge. I am not a revenge-driven person. But if you had a police dog let loose in your house climbing all over your bed, I doubt if you'd have neutral feelings toward that dog.

--Brant

I never fantasize about killing police officers; when that happens I either go to war with them because they are NKVD, KGP, Gestapo or I leave the country and at my age I'll leave; I want to be done with the killing business for the rest of my life; it damages you regardless of any necessity--for example, in Texas maybe 20 years ago, a knife-wielding man invaded a home and a struggle began between him and the father of a son who saw what was going on: the very young boy went and got a hunting rifle and killed the bad guy and I assure you that has significantly informed the rest of his life, both good and bad, but since I am not him I cannot tell you the ratio between the two; it all has to do with how his mind processed what he did then and over the fullness of time

Nice response.

[dropkick03]

With respect to the title of this thread, there is another thing you can do if the cop gives you an opening.

Bribery.

I don't suggest that for a variety of reasons, but it is an option.

I guess I have been living in Brazil for too long.

Anyway, up here you would not want to bribe a cop because you might get arrested for it.

Down there you never want to do that unless it's a last resort--because you run the risk of acquiring an unwanted partner in all your future income.

Michael

With the exception of a few choice cities, I'm pretty sure the good old days are gone. It was a kinder, gentler time. Sometimes, when you screwed up, and they knew you or your dad, they would even just tell you to go home, or give you a ride there if you were snockered. But even back then near the end of that era, the tender mercies were leaving us. Just ask Otis Campbell:

When I was in High School I got into a fist fight off campus with another student. The police showed up and one of the officers had been on various school boards with my mom, and knew me personally. I got a ride home in the front seat with a stern talking to.

Also, I had a friend who was a liberal user of marajuana. One night he and another student, who happened to be our school's star quarterback, got pulled over. From what I was told, it was a scene out of Cheech and Chong. An open back of roaches, smoke billowing out of the windows, etc. Well the cop recognized the quarterback, and knew his father pretty well. He ended up letting them both off the hook as long as they agreed to drive straigh home!

[Kimmler]

My complaint is that I've never been pulled over and/or hassled by the cops. Disgraceful! I can't even walk down the street and get arrested.

[Starbuckle]

Brant Gaede wrote: "...in Texas maybe 20 years ago, a knife-wielding man invaded a home and a struggle began between him and the father of a son who saw what was going on: the very young boy went and got a hunting rifle and killed the bad guy and I assure you that has significantly informed the rest of his life, both good and bad, but since I am not him I cannot tell you the ratio between the two...."

I would be interested to hear more about this kid's story if you know more and it is not confidential.

[RagJohn]

In a 7000 people town, 1974, I sat in on a city counsel meeting. They argued for an hour over a $50 expenditure. They had no argument at all over $700 worth of radar guns being purchased, tho! Don't kid yourself that cops stop you for your health or the citie's welfare. Those speed limits were set with Model T fords, whose brakes and tires were a joke, on rough brick surfaces, etc. They would be as safe today if they were 50% faster. they need to be writing tickets to people who get in the way of people who have a place to be and things to do. The best answer, in my opinion, would be to add about $5 a gal of tax on gasoline (not on truck-diesel). that would force the majorityh to ride motorcycles or bicycles, car pool, move closer to work, and stay home a lot. Fixes pollution, crowding, and parking problems. Use the funds to give kids a REAL education. While at that job, get rid of the ones who don't study or who disrupt classes. Why should the ones who do try, and who do behave, be held back by the jerks? Let the jerks pick up trash, it's all they are fit for, anyway.

[Selene]

In a 7000 people town, 1974, I sat in on a city counsel meeting. They argued for an hour over a $50 expenditure. They had no argument at all over $700 worth of radar guns being purchased, tho! Don't kid yourself that cops stop you for your health or the citie's welfare. Those speed limits were set with Model T fords, whose brakes and tires were a joke, on rough brick surfaces, etc. They would be as safe today if they were 50% faster. they need to be writing tickets to people who get in the way of people who have a place to be and things to do. The best answer, in my opinion, would be to add about $5 a gal of tax on gasoline (not on truck-diesel). that would force the majorityh to ride motorcycles or bicycles, car pool, move closer to work, and stay home a lot. Fixes pollution, crowding, and parking problems. Use the funds to give kids a REAL education. While at that job, get rid of the ones who don't study or who disrupt classes. Why should the ones who do try, and who do behave, be held back by the jerks? Let the jerks pick up trash, it's all they are fit for, anyway.

John:

Spoken like a true statist with a gun and the desire to extort money and obedience from the individual productive citizen. Ahh, a nice and neat collective solution. Tax and force.

No thanks.

Adam

[Brant Gaede]

Brant Gaede wrote: "...in Texas maybe 20 years ago, a knife-wielding man invaded a home and a struggle began between him and the father of a son who saw what was going on: the very young boy went and got a hunting rifle and killed the bad guy and I assure you that has significantly informed the rest of his life, both good and bad, but since I am not him I cannot tell you the ratio between the two...."

I would be interested to hear more about this kid's story if you know more and it is not confidential.

It was a newspaper story at the time. It would be much too onerous to try to research it out as I have no dates, places and names. They were wrestling on the floor when the boy shot the guy. Usually, it seems, such stories have a drug connection.

---Brant

[RagJohn]

No real need of a gun. People pay what they have to pay to get gas. At least it would be of more use than this worthless military we have. It costs us a trillion $ a year, and we still get invaded by a million illegals per year, and have 20 million people who shouldn't be here. non-forceful "solutions" are easily provable to not work, bud. If people were going to be cooperative, they'd ALREADY be carpooling, riding the bikes, living closer to where they work, etc. they don't,and won't and it's a real prob, and what I proposed WOULD fix that problem, and do so in a big hurry, too. Now, a better, longer range answer is to use natural gas in vehicles, because we have plenty of it, and get nearly all of our electricity from nukes. It's the only really renewable source, and we have a great plenty of it. We can, for instance, save a bundle by getting rid of 90+ % of the military, and 90% of our nuke weapons. Put the Nat'l guard on the border, and built a double fence, with gun towers and shoot to kill in between the fences. Then horsewhip, on public tv, anyone caught hiring illegals. Give the illegals 30 days to get out, then start tatooing "pollo" on their foreheads, kneecapping them and tossing them back over the border. Get rid of 90% of the nuke warheads, use them as fuel. use the laid off soldiers to build the new reactors, and the breeder reactors that use as fuel the "spent' fuel rods of the first type of reactor. Some of the soldiers can guard these reactors, just as they now guard the nuke warheads, ya know. Presto, no more gasoline prob, much less pollution, but still overcrowded/irresponsible people. Many fewer of them, tho. :-)

Edited December 25, 2010 by RagJohn

[Brant Gaede]

No real need of a gun. People pay what they have to pay to get gas. At least it would be of more use than this worthless military we have. It costs us a trillion $ a year, and we still get invaded by a million illegals per year, and have 20 million people who shouldn't be here. non-forceful "solutions" are easily provable to not work, bud. If people were going to be cooperative, they'd ALREADY be carpooling, riding the bikes, living closer to where they work, etc. they don't,and won't and it's a real prob, and what I proposed WOULD fix that problem, and do so in a big hurry, too. Now, a better, longer range answer is to use natural gas in vehicles, because we have plenty of it, and get nearly all of our electricity from nukes. It's the only really renewable source, and we have a great plenty of it. We can, for instance, save a bundle by getting rid of 90+ % of the military, and 90% of our nuke weapons. Put the Nat'l guard on the border, and built a double fence, with gun towers and shoot to kill in between the fences. Then horsewhip, on public tv, anyone caught hiring illegals. Give the illegals 30 days to get out, then start tatooing "pollo" on their foreheads, kneecapping them and tossing them back over the border. Get rid of 90% of the nuke warheads, use them as fuel. use the laid off soldiers to build the new reactors, and the breeder reactors that use as fuel the "spent' fuel rods of the first type of reactor. Some of the soldiers can guard these reactors, just as they now guard the nuke warheads, ya know. Presto, no more gasoline prob, much less pollution, but still overcrowded/irresponsible people. Many fewer of them, tho. :-)

OL is about thinking, not telling others what to think.

--Brant

think about it

Edited December 25, 2010 by Brant Gaede