No More Molly Morris

[Robert Campbell]

Molly Norris has gone into hiding:

http://www.seattlewe...ears-from-view/

Her "Everyone Draw Muhammad Day" drew a death sentence by fatwa from Anwar Al-Awlaqi, the imam also known for mentoring Major Nidal Malik Hassan.

Robert Campbell

Note: Sorry about getting the former cartoonist's last name wrong...

[Selene]

Molly Morris has gone into hiding:

http://www.seattlewe...ears-from-view/

Her "Everyone Draw Muhammad Day" drew a death sentence by fatwa from Anwar Al-Awlaqi, the imam also know for mentoring Major Nidal Malik Hassan.

Robert Campbell

Robert:

So that "Peace be upon them" just missed the mark again! Damn, seems to be a lot of bad shots out there!

I assume we are going to see a spate of Muslim American organizations denouncing the fatwa...

Adam

listening to Joan Baez's plaintive question..."When will they ever learn...?"

[BaalChatzaf]

Molly Morris has gone into hiding:

http://www.seattlewe...ears-from-view/

Her "Everyone Draw Muhammad Day" drew a death sentence by fatwa from Anwar Al-Awlaqi, the imam also know for mentoring Major Nidal Malik Hassan.

Robert Campbell

Robert:

So that "Peace be upon them" just missed the mark again! Damn, seems to be a lot of bad shots out there!

I assume we are going to see a spate of Muslim American organizations denouncing the fatwa...

Don't hold your breath.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Philip Coates]

Subject: Zero Tolerance for Murderous Criminal Fatwas

The U.S. Department of Defense and the C.I.A. should take action against these sentence of death fatwas. This kind of intimidation of freedom of speech is an extremely serious national security issue. In some ways it is -even more important- than the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Certainly more so than the silly mosque.

Here is what U.S. policy should be:

1. Any death sentence fatwa is an act of incitement to the crime of murder. Aiding and abetting murder is properly a crime in our law. And it should result in the U.S. sending its Special Forces to kill the imam or sheik or mullah who does it. That would also apply to a wealthy businessman who funds it, just as if he were funding terrorism.

2. Since the fatwas have to be public and prominent, it will not be hard to find the figures who issue them. Result: In very short order, no more fatwas. (This would be publicly condemned and silently applauded across the Middle East and most of the rest of the world.)

3. [from the Seattle newspaper article] "[Molly] is, in effect, being put into a witness-protection program—except, as she notes, without the government picking up the tab."

It is just as much a part of the battle against terror, for the government to pay for this as it is for the government as part of the battle against organized crime to pay all costs associated with the Witness Protection Program.

4. In addition to this policy going forward, a demand that *all previous deadly fatwas* be retracted and apologized for (with pretty clear unstated consequences). Starting with the two best-known ones on the Danish Cartoonists and on Salman Rushdie.

5. Note that this should be PUBLIC policy (not a 'black op' guilty, shady maneuver.) In the run up to the November elections, the Republicans and Tea Party members should immediately promise to bring this to the floor of Congress if elected in early 2011.

It will be called the "Murder Contracts, Criminal Fatwa, and Terrorist Assistance Act".

Instead of a "Contract with America" it will be a Contract -on- Criminal Conspirators and Killers.

--Incredibly Pissed Off and Outraged American

Edited September 18, 2010 by Philip Coates

[Philip Coates]

> We're hoping the religious bigots go into full and immediate remission, and we wish her the best. [seattle Weekly]

They are not going to do that until you make them (just the ones who instigate and incite and support violence) run and hide in EXACTLY the way I just stated.

Nothing else is appropriate.

And nothing else will work.

[kiaer.ts]

Subject: Zero Tolerance for Murderous Criminal Fatwas

The U.S. Department of Defense and the C.I.A. should take action against these sentence of death fatwas. This kind of intimidation of freedom of speech is an extremely serious national security issue. In some ways it is -even more important- than the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Certainly more so than the silly mosque.

Here is what U.S. policy should be:

1. Any death sentence fatwa is an act of incitement to the crime of murder. Aiding and abetting murder is properly a crime in our law. And it should result in the U.S. sending its Special Forces to kill the imam or sheik or mullah who does it. That would also apply to a wealthy businessman who funds it, just as if he were funding terrorism.

2. Since the fatwas have to be public and prominent, it will not be hard to find the figures who issue them. Result: In very short order, no more fatwas. (This would be publicly condemned and silently applauded across the Middle East and most of the rest of the world.)

3. [from the Seattle newspaper article] "[Molly] is, in effect, being put into a witness-protection program—except, as she notes, without the government picking up the tab."

It is just as much a part of the battle against terror, for the government to pay for this as it is for the government as part of the battle against organized crime to pay all costs associated with the Witness Protection Program.

4. In addition to this policy going forward, a demand that *all previous deadly fatwas* be retracted and apologized for (with pretty clear unstated consequences). Starting with the two best-known ones on the Danish Cartoonists and on Salman Rushdie.

5. Note that this should be PUBLIC policy (not a 'black op' guilty, shady maneuver.) In the run up to the November elections, the Republicans and Tea Party members should immediately promise to bring this to the floor of Congress if elected in early 2011.

It will be called the "Murder Contracts, Criminal Fatwa, and Terrorist Assistance Act".

Instead of a "Contract with America" it will be a Contract -on- Criminal Conspirators and Killers.

--Incredibly Pissed Off and Outraged American

You left out that the tacit approval of such crimes is an act of war by the country hosting the criminal.

[Selene]

Phil:

"Certainly more so than the silly mosque."

Perhaps you do not understand, at a base emotional level, that this mosque is not "silly" to those of us New Yorkers who lost friends, relatives and co-workers to these pricks who struck us in the most cowardly way on September 11th, 2001.

Last Thursday, on my way through Manhattan to Brooklyn, I stopped at that hole, enraged, tears still fall from my eyes every time I pass that site.

Yes, it is pure emotion, pure rage and it generated pure hate.

So, it is hurtful when I see something like "...the silly mosque." statement.

This is not directed at you personally, but I wanted to share with you how it feels to be a New Yorker and why this mosque is not just a property rights issue, but an emotional issue that is ripping open the barely healed wounds of that savage, senseless and cowardly attack.

Adam

Edited September 19, 2010 by Selene

[Robert Campbell]

Phil,

I agree with you that death sentence fataawa against people in this country should be treated as acts of war.

In Al-Awlaqi's case, this is somewhat academic. Aren't they gunning for him already (albeit not entirely overtly)?

Also, Al-Awlaqi is in Yemen, whose central government is weak in the best of times, is weaker now for a variety of reasons, and probably includes indidividuals and factions who sympathize with the jihadis.

Robert Campbell

[sjw]

Yes, it is pure emotion, pure rage and it generated pure hate.

So, it is hurtful when I see something like "...the silly mosque." statement.

This is not directed at you personally, but I wanted to share with you how it feels to be a New Yorker and why this mosque is not just a property rights issue, but an emotional issue that is ripping open the barely healed wounds of that savage, senseless and cowardly attack.

Adam

The anger is well-justified, the object you direct your anger at may not be well defined or justified. It's easy for anger to cloud judgement. The deepest causal factors involve our political institutions and what they do that leads up to things like this, and this is an area not to take things at face value, particularly given how cowed the mass-media is by the status-quo.

Shayne

[sjw]

I hadn't heard about the Molly Morris affair, but I blame cowards in the media and in government above anything else. There is a connection here between the outrage over the book-burning and this. On the one hand, our political/media establishment comes down harshly on somebody who would burn a Muslim book. But then, relatively speaking, there's barely a whisper over calls for execution of Molly Morris.

Those who would express outrage at that reverend in this context are more to blame than the animals who do not comprehend rights.

Shayne

[sjw]

Meanwhile, back at the farm:

http://www.wlns.com/Global/story.asp?S=13160090

"The East Lansing Police Department is seeking the publics help to find who is responsible for burning and desecrating a Koran. The incident happened on September 11. It was found at the front door of the Islamic Center of East Lansing.

The department is offering $10,000 for any information that would lead to the identification and prosecution of those responsible for this act.

Those with information are asked to call Det. Sherief Fadly at 517-319-6814."

Also, the government is fining the reverend who was going to burn but didn't burn the Koran $180K for security expenses.

So on the one hand, Molly has to go into hiding at her own expense while our government lets Muslim extremists get away with threats, on the other hand, people who exercise their freedom of speech are attacked by the very same government.

Lessons to learn from this?

Shayne

[Philip Coates]

> "Certainly more so than the silly mosque." [Phil]

> Perhaps you do not understand, at a base emotional level, that this mosque is not "silly" to those of us New Yorkers who lost friends, relatives and co-workers to these pricks who struck us in the most cowardly way on September 11th, 2001. [Adam]

Your point is very well-taken. And the issue is not a 'silly' one - it was a poor adjective on my part, what I should have said is "the location of a mosque is of much less importance than the actions of those who are actually killing people and actively trying to cancel freedom of speech".

(( However, please (not just you but others), don't take -literally- every word that appears in a post and then attack the slightest flaw or become outraged always over how precisely something is formulated. It just makes having a conversation about something ten times more difficult. I don't know about you, but I am not writing a doctoral dissertation here. Quite often I will try to condense a whole thought into an shorthand, a telegram, a single adjective perhaps.

My posts have the informality of email. They are casual things. Not every single word or statement is always well-chosen or laser-like focused as if the posts were going through multiple drafts and edited for publication. ))

Edited September 18, 2010 by Philip Coates

[Selene]

> "Certainly more so than the silly mosque." [Phil]

> Perhaps you do not understand, at a base emotional level, that this mosque is not "silly" to those of us New Yorkers who lost friends, relatives and co-workers to these pricks who struck us in the most cowardly way on September 11th, 2001. [Adam]

Your point is very well-taken. And the issue is not a 'silly' one - it was a poor adjective on my part, what I should have said is "the mosque is of infinitely less importance than those who are actually killing people".

(( However, please (not just you but others), don't take -literally- every word that appears in a post and then attack the slightest flaw or become outraged always over how precisely something is formulated. It just makes having a conversation about something ten times more difficult. I don't know about you, but I am not writing a doctoral dissertation here. My posts have the informality of email. They are casual things. Not every single word or statement is always well-chosen or laser-like focused as if the posts were edited and vetted for publication. ))

Understood.

That one just got to me this time.

No harm...no foul.

New York City rules.

[9thdoctor]

This may turn out to be the strongest case yet for maintaining anonymity on the internet. So is OL subject to the fatwa?

http://www.objectivistliving.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8540&view=findpost&p=97173

The whole idea was to spread the risk so thin that this wouldn’t happen.

I get such a kick out of this picture, I’m posting it again:

[kiaer.ts]

Phil:

"Certainly more so than the silly mosque."

Perhaps you do not understand, at a base emotional level, that this mosque is not "silly" to those of us New Yorkers who lost friends, relatives and co-workers to these pricks who struck us in the most cowardly way on September 11th, 2001.

Lat Thursday, on my way through Manhattan to Brooklyn, I stopped at that hole, enraged, tears still fall from my eyes every time I pass that site.

Yes, it is pure emotion, pure rage and it generated pure hate.

So, it is hurtful when I see something like "...the silly mosque." statement.

This is not directed at you personally, but I wanted to share with you how it feels to be a New Yorker and why this mosque is not just a property rights issue, but an emotional issue that is ripping open the barely healed wounds of that savage, senseless and cowardly attack.

Adam

Yes, Phil.

The standing building is 140 West Street, my workplace. It was impaled by the falling TV antenna.

For over a year, there were two funerals a day in my neighborhood church, every day of the week.

Have you ever woken up screaming? It is worse for your loved ones than it is for you.

Freedom of religion does not apply to criminal conspiracies which advocate violence and religious dictatorship.

This building is a comfort to our enemies, and its builder should be deported as a hostile alien.

Edited September 18, 2010 by Ted Keer

[sjw]

Yes, Phil.

The standing building is 140 West Street, my workplace. It was impaled by the falling TV antenna.

For over a year, there were two funerals a day in my neighborhood church, every day of the week.

Have you ever woken up screaming? It is worse for your loved ones than it is for you.

I'm sure the horror is far worse for you than for me. I live in SLC, and for a long time when the airplanes flying overhead made a particularly noisy descent I would find it, shall we say, disconcerting. Which reminds me of that stunt Obama's administration pulled when they flew those jets around NY a year or so ago and it freaked out a lot of people.

Freedom of religion does not apply to criminal conspiracies which advocate violence and religious dictatorship.

I agree, but you have to understand, we all live under a dictatorship (with at least religions overtones) based on violence, so it's hypocritical for them to pursue Islam on those grounds. To side with them regarding Islam is to side with their particular form of theocracy.

This building is a comfort to our enemies, and its builder should be deported as a hostile alien.

Nationalism is not the answer, but some of your principles have merit, so long as you apply them consistently and equally to everyone and not just the Muslims.

Shayne

[Philip Coates]

Subject: Do Not Edit Out or Paint Over the Horror

> The standing building is 140 West Street, my workplace. It was impaled by the falling TV antenna. [Ted]

One thing that was censored was the human bodies, the carnage on the street all around the World Trade Center.

The newspapers, who were willing to show the ovens at Dachau and the piles of corpses from the Nazi atrocities, refused to show graphic pictures of bodies from 9-11. Not just the bodies of the jumpers. I knew a woman who lived near Ground Zero. She said it rained body parts on the streets that day (probably from the impact -- from the plane and the floors where it hit). The woman was still a bit traumatized, it seemed, years later at an Objectivist conference. But I've never seen a graphic photo; I searched the web a couple times in the year after the event. I can understand not putting it on the front page of a family newspaper, but it MUST be archived and available somewhere.

When something that evil happens you MUST show it. You MUST make its magnitude, its consequences graphically clear for the same reason you don't censor the ovens, the stacks of skeletons, the piles of gold teeth and watches. There needs to be a 9-11 museum hallway or room as part of a museum of Islamofascist atrocities from around the world. Just like the Holocaust Museum.

Edited September 19, 2010 by Philip Coates

[sjw]

Subject: Do Not Edit Out or Paint Over the Horror

> The standing building is 140 West Street, my workplace. It was impaled by the falling TV antenna. [Ted]

One thing that was censored was the human bodies, the carnage on the street all around the World Trade Center.

The newspapers, who were willing to show the ovens at Dachau and the piles of corpses from the Nazi atrocities, refused to show graphic pictures of bodies from 9-11. Not just the bodies of the jumpers. I knew a woman who lived near Ground Zero. She said it rained body parts on the streets that day (probably from the impact -- from the plane and the floors where it hit). The woman was still a bit traumatized, it seemed, years later at an Objectivist conference. But I've never seen a graphic photo; I searched the web a couple times in the year after the event. I can understand not putting it on the front page of a family newspaper, but it MUST be archived and available somewhere.

When something that evil happens you MUST show it. You MUST make its magnitude, its consequences graphically clear for the same reason you don't censor the ovens, the stacks of skeletons, the piles of gold teeth and watches. There needs to be a 9-11 museum hallway or room as part of a museum of Islamofascist atrocities from around the world. Just like the Holocaust Museum.

Why do you single out horror when it pertains to symbolic attacks on the State, but you do not single out horror when it is the State attacking innocents? How about we single out the horror by showing the gruesome images of what this poor sap's body must have looked like when he died of cancer after the FDA refused him treatment?:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/19/health/research/19trial.html?_r=1

And if we multiply the horror across the true number of victims of US government-sponsored terror (i.e., The Drug War) and other mayhem against innocents, it will vastly overwhelm the images you want shown pertaining to 9/11.

I would say that your perspective, Philip, is tainted by large doses of nationalism. You are acting precisely as you have been programmed to act.

Shayne

[BaalChatzaf]

I would say that your perspective, Philip, is tainted by large doses of nationalism. You are acting precisely as you have been programmed to act.

Shayne

That is what They want you to think.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[BaalChatzaf]

I would say that your perspective, Philip, is tainted by large doses of nationalism. You are acting precisely as you have been programmed to act.

Shayne

That is what They want you to think.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[BaalChatzaf]

I would say that your perspective, Philip, is tainted by large doses of nationalism. You are acting precisely as you have been programmed to act.

Shayne

That is what They want you to think.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[sjw]

I would say that your perspective, Philip, is tainted by large doses of nationalism. You are acting precisely as you have been programmed to act.

Shayne

That is what They want you to think.

Ba'al Chatzaf

WTF?

[Selene]

Well this may be a promising event:

An Islamic publication — in response to news that the Seattle-based cartoonist responsible for “Everybody Draw Mohammed Day” has gone underground due to a fatwa issued calling for her death by an American born cleric living in Yemen — is encouraging American and Canadian Muslims to sign onto a letter in support of free speech.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2010/09/23/muslims-speak-out-in-support-of-threatened-everybody-draw-mohammed-day-cartoonist-molly-norris/#ixzz10NZRU7bO

[Selene]

Interesting take on Molly Morris and the Koran burning brouhaha.

"Molly Norris has gone missing – and she’s not coming back. That is, unless President Obama pushes a stimulus bill we all can believe in."

"The FBI found this threat serious. But instead of taking a stand and saying that it would protect Norris, it evidently encouraged Norris to disappear — to change her name and her identity, to leave behind her life and her friends. This would be her consequence for exercising her free speech rights as an American. This is a saga that should be known. But instead of highlighting Norris’ plight, our news networks were too busy covering Lindsay Lohan."

"Undoubtedly, the FBI doesn’t have the resources to protect every individual like Molly Norris who stands up to the radical Muslim intimidators who seek to silence all speech they detest through force. But there are an awful lot of unemployed construction workers out there who are pretty intimidating themselves. Why don’t we employ them to protect Norris and others like her. In one fell swoop we will be providing jobs in a down economy and standing up for the First Amendment. At the same time we stimulate economic growth, we will be sending a loud and clear message to those who want to destroy our way of life and dictate what we can and cannot say: “Go F*^k yourself. We won’t be intimidated. America will do what is necessary to protect those who are threatened for merely acting like Americans.”

This – along with Muslims standing up and fighting back against the extremists in their religion – is how we will begin to win the ideological battle against the radical Muslim Neanderthals who seek to destroy us.

Mr. President, let’s get America back to work and stand up for American values at the same time. Get behind my Free Speech Stimulus Package. It’s a stimulus we can all believe in — or, at least, one would hope."

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2010/09/28/thedc-analysis-a-stimulus-package-that-even-the-tea-party-can-buy-into-bodyguards-for-molly-norris/2/#ixzz10qJKop73

[sjw]

Interesting take on Molly Morris and the Koran burning brouhaha.

Some people are so sweet and innocent... It would be cute if it wasn't letting some others get away with murder.

Shayne