Is OL a gay site?

[Selene]

Taylor had written:

I just recently read an article that stated male person's of a certain ethnic background PUBLICLY despise homosexuals, yet locally 15% of men of that ethnic back ground have AIDS acquired primarily through homosexual sexual practices. This percent may be the highest in the nation.

In private confidential interviews the men as a group admit to getting "Down and Dirty" with other males yet claim they are not homosexuals. They themselves estimate that nearly 99% of males in that ethnic background and in their acquaintances routinely engage in secret, homosexual sex. This predilection could be due to genetics, personal preference, or homosexual experiences in prison, and could explain their derision and depiction of females as "bitches" or "whores," and could even explain their failure to commit to monogamous sexual relations with females. They think of themselves as hetero or bi-sexuals.

Mr. Taylor's reference to a recent article was made in late August of 2001.

"In 2001, the CDC issued a report citing rising rates of HIV and AIDS among gay black and Latino men. The agency then found signs the disease was spreading more broadly among male and female blacks: "

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/05/01/DOWNLOW.TMP&type=health#ixzz125TT8FH3

Since the CDC made a splash on this issue around that time, the article probably commented or was part of that CDC release and subsequent discussion.

Adam

[kiaer.ts]

Can you please let Peter explain himself himself? I want to know from him what article said the things he attributes.

[Peter]

Ted wrote:

Can you please let Peter explain himself himself? I want to know from him what article said the things he attributes.

end quote

I think my writing date of 2001 is correct. That is the only data I have. I saved no citations. You might go to Oprah's site because she recently had a show on this very subject.

Now, I am suggesting that I resign from this subject. Case closed. OL is not a gay site.

As some have noted, our sniping about gayness could strengthen the case rather than lay it to rest.

So long, Ted.

Semper cogitans fidele,

Peter Taylor

[kiaer.ts]

Ted wrote:

Can you please let Peter explain himself himself? I want to know from him what article said the things he attributes.

end quote

I think my writing date of 2001 is correct. That is the only data I have. I saved no citations. You might go to Oprah's site because she recently had a show on this very subject.

Now, I am suggesting that I resign from this subject. Case closed. OL is not a gay site.

As some have noted, our sniping about gayness could strengthen the case rather than lay it to rest.

So long, Ted.

Semper cogitans fidele,

Peter Taylor

So long, O Faithful . . . Thing?

[Peter]

Ted wrote:

So long, O Faithful . . . Thing?

The Dash Poem

By Linda Ellis

I read of a man who stood to speak

At the funeral of a friend

He referred to the dates on her tombstone

From the beginning to the end.

He noted that first came the date of her birth

And spoke of the following date with tears,

but he said what mattered most of all

was the dash between those years.

For that dash represents all the time

That she spent alive on earth

And now only those who loved her

Know what that life is worth.

For it matters not, how much we own,

The cars, the house, the cash,

What matters is how much we live and love

And how we spend our dash.

So think about this long and hard;

Are there things you’d like to change?

For you never know how much time is left

That can still be rearranged.

If we could just slow down enough

To consider what’s true and real

And always try to understand

The way other people feel.

And be less quick to anger

And show appreciation more

And love the people in our lives

Like we’ve never loved before.

If we treat each other with respect

And more often wear a smile,

Remembering that this special dash

Might only last a little while.

So when your eulogy is being read

With your life’s actions to rehash

Would you be proud of the things they say

About how you spent your dash?

End quote

You can get a movie of the dash and her other superb works by going to Linda Ellis’s site.

Good bye Ted. Spend your dash well.

Semper cogitans fidele,

Peter

[Selene]

I am heartbroken...

Here I was making hand printed invitations to the marriage ceremony for Peter and Ted...

what the hell am I going to do with all those pink hearts with sheep in them!

Adam

[kiaer.ts]

I suppose rumors of your departure have been exaggerated?

I have not asked you to leave, O faithful . . . thing.

[9thdoctor]

Here I was making hand printed invitations to the marriage ceremony for Peter and Ted...

They do fight like a married couple. This “…thing” thing keeps bringing up a musical association, time to exorcise/share it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYhE7H8KImQ

[Peter]

Here is an interesting addition to this discussion, and I second Rick and Ninth Doctor to all you “John and Janes.” This is not a gay site.

The near to the end of the letter comment by Barbara is very interesting:

Barbara Branden wrote:

“. . . With the proviso that I do not speak for The Objectivist Center, my understanding is that David Kelley and Bob Bidinotto do not accept much of Ayn Rand's psychological theorizing, where I, too, believe that she was uninformed. Her view of homosexuality as a moral flaw, for instance, certainly cannot be justified -- nor much in her theory of romantic love, which was vastly oversimplified.”

End quote

Barbara should write a book. No, make that a book a year.

Or just keep a journal. I would pay a $25 subscription for that. In the mean time she is benevolently giving away her insights for free.

How big would a gold coin worth $25, be? I need a summer home in Atlantis where I can invite guests.

Independent Objectivist

Peter Taylor

Re: ATL: Existence Exists reply to BB‏

1/15/01

Barbara Branden

To atlantis@wetheliving.com

Jason Alexander writes,

<<I take Barbara's remark, "after all, Objectivism was her own creation..." to be conformation that Rand considered Objectivism to be an order of difference, i.e., that it was de novo in _crucial_ aspects.

Yes, she did so consider it. Don't you?

Jason further writes,

<<Barbara objects that MEEP are Rand's categories and her followers, follow. At this point I would like to learn, if Barbara knows, when in Rand's career "her own divisions of the content of philosophy" came into being.

I don't know the answer to this question, but I would assume she accepted these divisions from her first studies of philosophy. She never claimed that they were original with her: they are, after all, the traditional divisions.

Jason asks,

<<In the same vein I would like to know when "Existence Exists" came into being. I would guess after The Fountainhead and before Atlas was finished. If it was in L.A. during her weekend visits, was it an Eureka experience? How did Rand report it?

Ayn Rand did not report her first realization that "Existence Exists." My understanding is that she early recognized it as implicit in all awareness. It would not have been a "Eureka" experience, but simply the realization of an axiom that cannot be avoided.

Jason writes,

<<The crux of our different views lies in <What Ayn Rand wanted, above all, as to take over the academic world.... I always heard that as the "real" world and considered "academic" to be a tactical mistake. But I will not here make that argument; rather would I ask Barbara to make us privy to the source of this notion, if she knows. Particularly, what role did Peikoff play in diverting her nascent revolution into the stagnant backwaters of academic philosophy. . . By my lights, Rand's revolution ran to the real world, the world of John and Jane Doe, the common man and woman.

My reason for saying that she wanted, above all, to take over the academic world, is that she often said this to Nathaniel Branden and to me. But it was not primarily that she wanted to "convert" the professors now there; she considered most of them to be so corrupt that such a conversion was impossible. She wanted to take over academia through the appointment of new professors who either were Objectivists or at least were sympathetic to Objectivism. Yes, certainly she appealed to John and Jane Doe, and was happy to do so; but she knew that the most important battle would be fought in academia from which her ideas would ultimately filter down to the Johns and Janes who did not yet know of, understand, or accept her ideas.

As for Peikoff, he did not "divert her ideas into the stagnant backwaters of academic philosophy," nor did anyone else. That's not where she wanted to go, as I said above; she wanted, instead, to create a new academia. Peikoff often has taken credit for extending her interest in academic philosophy. He did not do so. It was I, in the beginnings of my own studies of philosophy, who did so -- by bringing her passages from such thinkers as Kant and Hume, whose ideas I was struggling to refute, who made her see the disastrous influence of philosophers in corrupting our world. She recognized, because of my studies and often my difficulties, that although the Janes and Johns may never have heard of Hume or Kant or Hegel or Berkeley, they nevertheless have been influenced by such thinkers through the newspaper articles, essays, movies, and even comic books which they inspired.

Finally, Jason wrote,

<< She {Barbara} wrote favorably of TOC and its add and subtract work. Doris Gordon on Jan. 5, queried that remark: Can you please give me an idea of what TOC has subtracted, and why you think such subtractions were necessary? If Barbara answered Doris Gordon, it would be valuable to us all if she would post that answer to the list. If any list members are TOC adherents, it would be of further interest to see the adds itemized.

Sorry, Doris, that I have not yet answered you. With the proviso that I do not speak for The Objectivist Center, my understanding is that David Kelley and Bob Bidinotto do not accept much of Ayn Rand's psychological theorizing, where I, too, believe that she was uninformed. Her view of homosexuality as a moral flaw, for instance, certainly cannot be justified -- nor much in her theory of romantic love, which was vastly oversimplified. As for additions to her philosophy, David has added the concept of benevolence to her listing of moral virtues, an addition, in my view, of great importance.

Barbara

[kiaer.ts]

homo sum; humani nihil a me alienum puto

[Peter]

It would be a kindness for all humans to be clear.

[kiaer.ts]

It would be a kindness for all humans to be clear.

Almost everything is easily available on Google. Just cut and paste and search and you will have your answer. It is a great resource and a useful habit to acquire.

Edited October 16, 2010 by Ted Keer

[Selene]

homo sum; humani nihil a me alienum puto

Well put Ted.

hunc tu caveto

[Peter]

“Wang dang, sweet poontang.” Ted Nugent from the album “Cat Scratch Fever.”

Nothing like a couple of, “in your face,” innuendoes.

That’s three innuendoes.

Counting what is now going on in your mind, that’s four, you sexy minx.

Damn. It is so quiet tonight.

OL is a manly, man, site and a womanly, woman, site. Everything in its right place. Yeah, that’s the ticket.

I will stop there. Don’t want to stir up Det Reek. Let him slide back into the Gray, Green, Greasy Limpopo River.

Peter

[kiaer.ts]

"Wang dang, sweet poontang." Ted Nugent from the album "Cat Scratch Fever."

Nothing like a couple of, "in your face," innuendoes.

That's three innuendoes.

Counting what is now going on in your mind, that's four, you sexy minx.

Damn. It is so quiet tonight.

OL is a manly, man, site and a womanly, woman, site. Everything in its right place. Yeah, that's the ticket.

I will stop there. Don't want to stir up Det Reek. Let him slide back into the Gray, Green, Greasy Limpopo River.

Peter

So your response, Peter, to a noble Latin proverb, not even addressed to you, is not to cut and paste it into Google to see what it might mean, (i.e., not to think) but simply to assume that it is a vulgar personal attack, and to respond with childish nonsense and implied fag jokes?

Wow.

[kiaer.ts]

homo sum; humani nihil a me alienum puto

Well put Ted.

LOL. I am afraid Peter thought I was saying, "Some homo! Man, that nigga's a mean alien puto."

Edited October 17, 2010 by Ted Keer

[Brant Gaede]

homo sum; humani nihil a me alienum puto

Well put Ted.

LOL. I am afraid Peter thought I was saying, "Some homo! Man, that nigga's a mean alien puto."

Ted, u really need to get rid of your shitty moving avatar.

--Brant

call 'em like I see 'em

[James Heaps-Nelson]

Aw c'mon Brant. It's a tribute to Benoit Mandelbrot.

Jim

Edited October 17, 2010 by James Heaps-Nelson

[kiaer.ts]

homo sum; humani nihil a me alienum puto

Well put Ted.

LOL. I am afraid Peter thought I was saying, "Some homo! Man, that nigga's a mean alien puto."

Ted, u really need to get rid of your shitty moving avatar.

--Brant

call 'em like I see 'em

Aw c'mon Brant. It's a tribute to Benoit Mandelbrot.

Jim

For those who might wonder what's got our resident pacifist up in arms, this was the mandlebrot set gif:

[Rich Engle]

Well, one way or another, I know what i'll be up to this a.m. I guess I'm cutting loose into some hard be bop during the offering part.

Unitarian Universalist Church of Fort Myers

Order of Worship 10-17-10

“Association Sunday”

Gathering Music

*Processional Hymn #287 Faith of the Larger Liberty Silliman/ Kirchengesang

Welcome Barbara Boynton, Worship Associate

*Chalice Lighting and Covenant Chalice Lighter, Jasmine Dowd

Love is the spirit of this church and service its law. This is our great covenant: To dwell together in peace, to seek the truth in love, and to help one another.

~James Vila Blake

Call to Worship Rev. Allison Farnum

Time for All Ages Helen Leddy

Singing Out #413 ”Go Now in Peace” Sleeth

Meditation & Candle Lighting

Reading The Almost Church by Michael Durall

*Hymn 1003 Where Do We Come From? Tate/Gaugin

(Section 1) Where do we come from - What are we - Where are we going?

(Section 2) Where do we come from

(Section 3) Mystery, Mystery, Life is a riddle and mystery.

Reading Self Portrait by David Whyte

Sermon Leap of Faith Rev. Allison Farnum

*Hymn #318 We Would Be One Wright/Sibelius

Offering

For Association Sunday contributions: please make checks payable to the UUA or place cash offerings in envelopes you have marked “UUA”

*Extinguishing the Chalice

Carry the flame of peace and gladness ‘til we meet again.

Carry the flame of peace and gladness ‘til we meet again.

*Closing by Olympia Browne

*Please rise in body or spirit *Recessional - Hymn 1003 Where Do We Come From? Tate/Gaugin

[Dennis Hardin]

If OL is a gay website, it would seem to be missing something. Or is there a photo gallery I am not aware of?

[Brant Gaede]

I'm the "resident pacifist"? That's so radically not who I am I can't even imagine what it must be like to be one.

--Brant

flower in my hair?

Edited October 17, 2010 by Brant Gaede

[Brant Gaede]

Tribute away. I liked reading about him and his "fractals."

--Brant

[Peter]

Brant is a hero who served his country honorably. Thank you for your service Brant.

Now to taking out the trash.

Thank goodness you are still alive, Reek. Your face got so purple after your last tantrum, I thought you were going to pass out.

A crocodile Det Reek! A crocodile slides back into the gray, green, greasy Limpopo river, which is an African children’s tale available on tape or DVD, narrated by Jack Nicholson. There was nothing gay in it. It was all in your mind, you nitwit.

The phrase had nothing to do with your alternative ‘you know what.’ I was not bashing your right to do ‘you know what’ (but which I have no first hand knowledge,) with your fellow, Haitian male friends.

All the innuendoes in the Ted Nugent quote were heterosexual, Reek. Will you please confirm for everyone this is not a gay site? If you are a gay man who likes to bash gays? Cut it out!

My response to your Latin, since I do not know Latin, was what I thought it might mean after picking at the words. I think you can use an internet translator with the best of them, but your flaming has very little thought or class. If you want people to appreciate your jibes, class them up a bit. Smarten them up a bit. A raconteur you are not.

Happy Birthday, Reek. But, you should have learned more after sixty five years on this earth.

As always, you must have the last word, just like a 'you know what.' Keep it on this thread so that the rest of humanity is not offended.

Czar Peter

[Brant Gaede]

Aw c'mon Brant. It's a tribute to Benoit Mandelbrot.

Jim

Once I was blind, but now I see.

--Brant