Glenn Beck in D.C.

[Christopher]

Can anyone tell me if Glenn Beck is authentically (personally) religious? He used some Christian terminology in his speech in D.C. It sounds like the typical redneck/retiree rhetoric used in the Republican party to generate support. It's also not a Libertarian position if I understand Libertarianism correctly.

I keep asking myself when he states his opinions: is this guy real?

[Selene]

Christopher:

He is a deeply religious Mormon.

He is quite for real.

Adam

[kiaer.ts]

It sounds like the typical redneck/retiree rhetoric used in the Republican party to generate support.

Would you say wetbacks and migrant workers?

Would you say porch monkeys and welfare queens?

Would you say rice-eating grocery owners?

I knew you were a bigot.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Ted Keer

[Christopher]

Thanks Adam. I'm open to trusting him, but I need to understand him first. I noted that he claims the crowd size in D.C. was 500k, whereas news reports put it at roughly 87k.

He's definitely an entertainer with the objective of persuasion. But to trust him, I keep trying to figure out how deep his methods of persuasion go before we hit the "real" stuff that represents himself.

[Dennis Edwall]

From an email I just got from Matt Kibbe at FreedomWorks re: Beck:

Beck concluded: "This is His country. These are His rights. If we don't line ourselves up with Him, He'll find a bunch of people who will. And it's time to get ourselves in line with Him. And expect miracles, because God's freedom, God's rights, He's not done with man being free. He's not done. If we fail here, if we drop the ball here, where, as Ronald Reagan said, will the rest of the world run? They have no place to run, so you and I have no choice but to stand for the freedom of God that God endowed us all with. Thank you and see you tomorrow!"

Scary stuff.

[Selene]

Dennis:

I'm confused.

Here is a deeply religious man who finishes his speech with an emotional coda having seen a year of planning come to fruition and raising almost 5.5 million dollars for the surviving families of special ops folks and this is

"Scary stuff."

Beck is a religious libertarian and is much less prone to impose his views through government repression.

I grant that he, as he has admitted, says some pretty stupid things at times.

However, in balance, he is someone that I can walk a long way with on a path to restoring limited government, if we still even have a chance to stop this juggernaut of Marxism.

Adam

[Dennis Edwall]

Adam:

<<Beck is a religious libertarian and is much less prone to impose his views through government repression.

I agree with that, but he is not your typical religious advocate. To justify rights using religion is not only wrong, it sends the wrong message to millions who cannot understand where the limits of religion ought to be. In the recorded history of man, how friendly has religion been of liberty, aside from the birth of the U.S.? Not very.

I think Beck should keep his religious beliefs separate from his support of liberty.

[Selene]

I wish he would also, but he is not capable of that separation.

He is from the individual rights were given to us through the founders by God school of thought. It has been a tremendous move for him to have moved from Republican conservative some five (5) years ago to an independent religious libertarian limited government advocate.

Ya jest can't look a gift horse in the mouth!

I understand your concern, but that peroration you cited was his ADD/ADHD emotional parts that were just on a role.

Glenn has always referred to himself as "...riddled with ADD..." and he takes meds for it.

Adam

[anthony]

I wish he would also, but he is not capable of that separation.

He is from the individual rights were given to us through the founders by God school of thought. It has been a tremendous move for him to have moved from Republican conservative some five (5) years ago to an independent religious libertarian limited government advocate.

Ya jest can't look a gift horse in the mouth!

I understand your concern, but that peroration you cited was his ADD/ADHD emotional parts that were just on a role.

Glenn has always referred to himself as "...riddled with ADD..." and he takes meds for it.

Adam

Adam, hi (good to see you!)

From an outsider's perspective, I think you got it spot-on in these two posts.

From all the YouTubes a portrait of Beck emerges quite clearly as a man of self-respect - which indicates he respects others, and

I'm convinced that Individualism lies a close second to his belief in God.

It is the real world, and tragically we can't escape it anywhere: Statism, or Religionism - or, god forbid, Religious Statism (full Theocracy); limited government is an aspiration for a future time and place.

Playing the scenario out to the extreme, if Glenn Beck came into authority (POTUS,say), it seems highly unlikely that he would erode the division of Church and State.

He has a strong grasp of the sovereignty of the individual - even (as one must argue) if it is founded on the 'Immortal Soul' premise.

But not, I believe, exclusively.

Anyway, subjectively, I like him and trust him - and as Ive often found with individual religionists, you can like and respect the one,(the man or woman) and detest the other (their religions).

ADD/ADHD, hey? Makes sense, I should have guessed!

Tony

[kiaer.ts]

Anyway, subjectively, I like him and trust him - and as Ive often found with individual religionists, you can like and respect the one,(the man or woman) and detest the other (their religions).

Love the sinner, hate the sin?

I personally value Beck, but after listening to him do a rational 15 minute radio segment exposing some progressive conspiracy, and then end it with a comment that he thinks we truly are living in the end times, I can only cringe and lament that he has destroyed his own credibility with a gratuitous insane remark.

[sbeaulieu]

I see Beck having a true "Founding Fathers" mentality, with the mix of limited gov't and religious background. Does the dissuade me from liking him or his ideas? Nope. There are overlaps that I agree with regarding liberty. I can overlook his religious overtones in the favor that I know he won't impose his religious view upon me.

~ Shane

[kiaer.ts]

On friday he said that he believes we have a moral duty to help those in need, and that, if he were not a libertarian, you should run in fear if you had heard him say the same thing.

[BaalChatzaf]

Glen Beck is a buffoon.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[kiaer.ts]

Glen Beck is a buffoon.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Surely you can hate better than that! Are you feeling okay?

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Glen Beck is a buffoon.

Bob,

Rabbi Daniel Lapin doesn't think so. He was at the Restoring Honor rally and spoke at Beck's "America's Divine Destiny" presentation at the Kennedy Center the night before.

You are entitled to your opinion, of course.

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

Glen Beck is a buffoon.

Bob,

Rabbi Daniel Lapin doesn't think so. He was at the Restoring Honor rally and spoke at Beck's "America's Divine Destiny" presentation at the Kennedy Center the night before.

You are entitled to your opinion, of course.

You aren't going to start a tthread about yours and Kat's trip?

--Brant

[BaalChatzaf]

Glen Beck is a buffoon.

Bob,

Rabbi Daniel Lapin doesn't think so. He was at the Restoring Honor rally and spoke at Beck's "America's Divine Destiny" presentation at the Kennedy Center the night before.

You are entitled to your opinion, of course.

Michael

America's Divine Destiny? Who but a clown could utter such nonsense?

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

America's Divine Destiny? Who but a clown could utter such nonsense?

Bob,

I don't know...

George Washington?

Thomas Jefferson?

Rabbi Daniel Lapin?

The usual clowns...

Michael

[BaalChatzaf]

America's Divine Destiny? Who but a clown could utter such nonsense?

Bob,

I don't know...

George Washington?

Thomas Jefferson?

Rabbi Daniel Lapin?

The usual clowns...

Michael

Geo. Washington and Thomas Jefferson lived mostly in the 18th century so they didn't know any better.

Shame on Rabbi Lupin. There was only one Divine Nation, (Ancient Israel) and they blew it over 2000 years ago.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Selene]

The opening of A Thousand Clowns with Jason Robards Jr., one of the early attacks on the welfare state.

Remember, you can never have enough eagles!

Beck makes an interesting difference between the doctrine of Manifest Destiny and Divine Destiny.

[kiaer.ts]

America's Divine Destiny? Who but a clown could utter such nonsense?

Bob,

I don't know...

George Washington?

Thomas Jefferson?

Rabbi Daniel Lapin?

The usual clowns...

Michael

Geo. Washington and Thomas Jefferson lived mostly in the 18th century so they didn't know any better.

Shame on Rabbi Lupin. There was only one Divine Nation, (Ancient Israel) and they blew it over 2000 years ago.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Yes, atheism, secularism, and critical thinking were all discovered in Brooklyn in the 1960's, and the entire corpus of Greek philosophy was unknown to the founding fathers, since it was only discovered in some jars in a cave in Palestine just after WWII.

God you are selectively ignorant, Bob.

In general it is moderns who should know better, but don't, and the educated classes of past ages who put us to shame.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Ted Keer

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Just for the record, I was able to watch America's Divine Destiny on video. At one point, David Barton was getting a little too enthusiastic about how much the church should be involved in society and Beck interrupted him. I will paraphrase the following, since I did not notate the time (the presentation is over 3 hours), but it might be worth looking up later and quoting verbatim.

Beck basically said that, to be clear, there is and has to be a definite separation of church and state. When church becomes state and the state errs, the church is weakened and all morals go out the window. Then society goes to hell. He cited the Weimar Rebublic as an example.

(Beck does not understand morality without God--it just doesn't fit into his view of the universe, although he does recognize that many non-religious people are highly moral with respect to personal governance and not wanting to govern others, and have found their own moral compass. He does not dismiss this, but he does not understand it, either. To his credit, he respects it, and has even commented several times on people like Penn Jillette as an example of people who are good people, but atheists. I will discuss this point at another time.)

Thus he claims that the function of the government does not include making people practice any particular religious doctrine, although the individual who believes in God has the responsibility of giving voice to his belief. Here is an example (this example was not in the presentation). Beck likes prayer included in government ceremonies--since these ceremonies are carried out by individuals, but he does not sanction prayer to be written into law--i.e., establishing a legal obligation that one must pray.

Barton was quick to agree, although I believe he would not mind a little forcing to the theocracy side on this issue. He's very smart, but I think he bears watching.

Regardless, Beck stated clearly--and strongly emphasized--his position of separation of state and church while simultaneously calling on people to give voice to their beliefs. This was during the most religious event I have seen him do to date.

Although I disagree with Beck on religion, I fully agree with him on policy.

That policy, I submit, is not the work or position of a clown.

And if it be so, I, also, am a clown.

Proudly so.

Michael

[BaalChatzaf]

God you are selectively ignorant, Bob.

I am not selectively ignorant. I am intolerant of blatant nonsense.

The U.S. was not ordained by a Deity. It was created by humans (mostly male) and its design was sufficiently robust to hold up to this day under some rather severe stresses. We live in a Man Made nation, not a Divine Nation.

Any appeals to the Deity or deities or gods, ghosts, spirits, goblins or any supernatural agent is simply ignorance manifesting itself.

The first thing that Evil Doers claim is that they are the Chosen of God. Hitler for instance (Good Godwin!) made that claim. He, by his own declaration was Destiny's Chosen Agent. Others have made similar claims. Plato put in a bid on behalf of all philosophers claiming they they (the philosophers) are clearly the choice agent to rule and lead. And so on and so on and so on.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Dennis Hardin]

America's Divine Destiny? Who but a clown could utter such nonsense?

Bob,

I don't know...

George Washington?

Thomas Jefferson?

Rabbi Daniel Lapin?

The usual clowns...

Michael

Very little is known about Washington’s religious beliefs, because he made it a point to say very little publicly about the matter. There is almost no mention of religion in any of his correspondence. He was a vestryman and attended church, though infrequently. The vestry was largely a political office, and had little or no significance religiously. He appears to have believed that it was important for government leaders to present a certain public image about religion, to uphold the social order. Washington also encouraged his soldiers to use prayer as a way to fortify their fighting spirit. Even so, based on such comments as he did make and others who knew him, some historians suspect that he was either a Deist or an agnostic. He did say, in the treaty with Tripoli in 1796: “The government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded upon the Christian religion.”

Jefferson was clearly a Deist and ardent critic of Christianity. He believed in “Nature and Nature’s God” as the standard Enlightenment formula for understanding our world, but considered the God of the Old Testament to be “cruel, vindictive, capricious and unjust.” He also believed that the world was comprehensible to man and that, given time, reason would explain all of its mysteries. What Jefferson referred to as faith would be indistinguishable from what we would call ethics informed by reason. His idea of God was a benign creator whose only revelation to man was through Nature and Reason. His idea of “divinity” would have been devoid of any mystical or superstitious implications.

In terms of their religious beliefs (or nonbeliefs) and America’s philosophical foundations, neither Washington nor Jefferson would have had anything in common with Beck.

[kiaer.ts]

God you are selectively ignorant, Bob.

I am not selectively ignorant. I am intolerant of blatant nonsense.

The U.S. was not ordained by a Deity. It was created by humans (mostly male) and its design was sufficiently robust to hold up to this day under some rather severe stresses. We live in a Man Made nation, not a Divine Nation.

Any appeals to the Deity or deities or gods, ghosts, spirits, goblins or any supernatural agent is simply ignorance manifesting itself.

The first thing that Evil Doers claim is that they are the Chosen of God. Hitler for instance (Good Godwin!) made that claim. He, by his own declaration was Destiny's Chosen Agent. Others have made similar claims. Plato put in a bid on behalf of all philosophers claiming they they (the philosophers) are clearly the choice agent to rule and lead. And so on and so on and so on.

Ba'al Chatzaf

I meant of history, biology, selective fields of knowledge. You assert unsophisticated opinions as if knowledge of math and physics amounts to a well rounded knowledge of history, man, and the universe. The founders and their generation were politically, ethically, and philosophically more more sophisticated than ours. It is the height of arrogance and historically unsound to attribute their positions to ignorance in comparison with ours. Any close study of history will tell you that the men of our times have no advantage over those of the enlightenment, the renaissance, or the classical era. A reading of Suetonius and Diogenes Laertius (two very approachable authors) will tell you just how small modern man has become.

In any case, neither Jefferson nor Washington was prone to describe their acts as an eschatological mission divinely willed, just looked on with favor because of its actual goodness by providence defined as reason personified.

Edited September 6, 2010 by Ted Keer