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Dennis Hardin

Prof. George Walsh on Rand and Kant

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You may find this hard to believe, but I don't mind being wrong (other than the normal biological resistance everyone has). I do mind someone not understanding what I mean, attributing a wrong meaning to what I say, then saying I'm wrong and crowing triumph.

Who are you talking about, Michael? You said this about me yesterday, without justification, and implied that I was not arguing in good faith, but had some motive other than the point at hand. No one else seems to think I was doing anything other than making a valid point. Now you repeat it. Please refrain from imputing such motives. A philosophical disagreement is not a personal attack.

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Ted,

I call it as I see it.

And I still hold you are not interested in the idea (in this case), but in something else within the "control others" realm of interaction.

Michael

Uh, yeah . . .

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> A philosophical disagreement is not a personal attack.

Ted, I've followed Michael's posts for years. He always gets his little personal zingers and accusations in there sooner or later.

Then he's all innocent, "I just call 'em like I see 'em" and wonders why people get pissed off.

Edited by Philip Coates

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In what Harden quoted, Kelley does not distinguish clearly between the form of perception and the thing being perceived. Color as a form of perception requires the operation of sensory organs. But insofar as the color conveys information about external objects being perceived, what makes color is an object that exists independently of any perception. Sensory forms are products of an interaction. Kelley does clearly distinguish between form and object in his book. In any case, the so-called Copenhagen interpretation is indeed nonsense. Electrons exist independently or not, and there is no way except "independently" that things in the world of whatever kind can exist, whether or not we are justified in calling them "entities" in a primary sense. The fact that we have means of observing electrons or inferring their existence provides evidence that they do exist, not that they can't exist unless we observe them. What can't exist without observations are observations.

If Kelley really said in private correspondence or anywhere that "Even if entities do exist only in relation to our means of perception..." then this is no problem, his wording implies a grotesque muddle. What can exist only in relation to a means of perception is the form in which we perceive the entities. Entities exist regardless of the form in which they are perceived. Radically different forms give us the same, overlapping or complementary information about the same thing. Bake an apple pie, and then see whether radically different forms of perception--smell, sight, taste--enable you to know that the pie is ready to eat. Given the clarity and precision of his book The Evidence of the Senses, I suspect either that Kelley is being misquoted or that he did not intend to say what he seems to be saying.

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Our detection of electron and other subatomic particles is theory laden.  What we perceive is the output of a device which taken together with a theory or  model that asserts the output is from an electron (or other subatomic particle)  constitutes a "detection" of the particle. If we didn't have a theory we would not be talking about electrons and other non-perceivable objects.  

 

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